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      03-31-2007, 04:46 PM   #23
etik
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European Hifi Option = U.S. Standard = 8" subs
Logic 7 ?? I do not know...
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      04-01-2007, 06:36 AM   #24
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Why is everybody saying that upgrading subs, you need to upgrade amp? How do you experience the need for amp upgrade? I have stock subs and amps and have not noticed that the amp would be a problem. Do the aftermarket subs have worse sensitivity than stock?

why would someone prefer sub in a trunk, when you can have it under seat? Any advantages? Disadvantage is the lost trunk space obviously.

All versions have the same enclosures. L7 has 8" sub also, but is capable of lower frequency than US stock/Eur hifi. Eur stock has 6.5 hnch sub + adjustment collar to fit it to the enclosure. So this mod fits all. I'm about to order Earthquakes. There is not much performance info available regarding Eartgquake/Pioneer/Stock versions though. Thanks Etik for the thread!
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      04-01-2007, 12:48 PM   #25
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Great DIY Play around with it more and let us know if it was worth all the work
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      04-01-2007, 02:07 PM   #26
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BNJ,
Stock sound systems are manufactured with cost as the number one priority. The amps are usually underpowered, and the speakers are usually made of foam/paper pulp combination. This is fine for the undiscriminating ear, but once you really start to listen to the musical character and range of the system, the limitations are usually noticed very quickly. How clear are the highs? How clear are the lows? Is the bass ugly? Or is it clean and has that snap that you would only feel in a live concert!?

Subs require alot of power to drive them in general. They have greater surface air and are built to move more air than traditional mid and hi-range drivers. The movement requires alot of power. I should correct myself, it require alot of CLEAN power.

Most amps on the low end, including OEM (even Bose, HK/Logic 7, etc...) are rated at X watts by X channels. The reality is that most of these amps can only drive one of those channels at the stated power output. For example, if the ampe is a 4*50watt model, it will most likely not be able to run 4 channels at 50 watts at the same time. This is a little detail manufacturers leave out, and is what seperates a good amp from a terrible one (oem).

If you look at the size of the OEM amp and compare it to any aftermarket one of good quality, you will immediately notice a size difference. There is no way that the stock BMW amp powers all 10 channels on the std stereo at the same time with the stated power.

Since the subs require more power they require a dedicated power source, and a good one at that.

The argument with sub under mount vs. trunk mount is the following. Subs need to move air to create sound. Under the seats, the enclosures are 1, small, and 2 the drivers are shallow mount which means they move minimal amounts of air. Shallow mount subs cannot hit as hard and as low as regular subs due to the movement of the driver and limited space to push air. They are getting better tho, and will probably become more popular as they become better in this respect.

Trunk mounted subs have, well, the whole trunk to move air. The trunk also creates a nice area to resonate the bass. If that air is somehow ported into the cabin, the sound is very very nice. Undermount subs are good for limited spaces, but should not be compared in sound quality to larger subs with access to more air volume.

The Earthquakes are more expensive than the Pioneer, but the performance available from them will probably be comparable. I will go with Pioneer. Remember you need a strong dedicated amp!
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      04-01-2007, 04:34 PM   #27
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Job is completed, but still need some tuning on AMP. There is so much tweaking possible. Pff, when I make it sound like I wish with a song it's giving crap with another... still a lot of work to find the right balance.

The Pioneer finally fit into place



This is how I managed to reuse original fixations
LEFT


RIGHT


!! carefull underseat sub enclosure and not the same on both side and the fixation and not even comparable but it both case you could you the trick displayed above.

Now I have to find a forum on AMP tweaking...

BTW, still researching how to fit the original sub cover ?? as it's fitted with the original enclosure I cannot use them anymore. I do not like to leave my subs unprotected but could not find a way...
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      04-01-2007, 09:06 PM   #28
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To cover the space you have exposed I recommend a 10" steel subwoofer grill painted in black. They shouldnt be too expensive, 10 euro max I think.

I am thinking about your EQ problem with different songs...if you are keeping the car for awhile, I would suggest getting some type of DSP. The installer in the local audio shop suggested Audiocontrol. I have read up on them, and their reputation proceeds them. You should be able to find them on ebay for a good price.

Another idea is to get the JL Audio Cleansweep. If the bass pattern is as erratic as you say it is, you need an external processor to analyze the sound and recalibrate it for your system.

Anyways, could you give us more info on how it sounds? Is it comparable to a trunk setup? Deep bass? Tight bass? Not strong enough? Thanks!
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      04-02-2007, 03:57 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gichoke View Post
To cover the space you have exposed I recommend a 10" steel subwoofer grill painted in black. They shouldnt be too expensive, 10 euro max I think.
I'll have a look at my local car hifi dealer, thanks!

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Originally Posted by gichoke View Post
I am thinking about your EQ problem with different songs...if you are keeping the car for awhile, I would suggest getting some type of DSP. The installer in the local audio shop suggested Audiocontrol. I have read up on them, and their reputation proceeds them. You should be able to find them on ebay for a good price
Another idea is to get the JL Audio Cleansweep. If the bass pattern is as erratic as you say it is, you need an external processor to analyze the sound and recalibrate it for your system
I've the JL Audio Cleansweep. Check my setup HERE

I'm thinking about making a new calibration.
What I will first do is get the amplifier feed with a external audio source that I'm sure it's clean and check the result.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gichoke View Post
Anyways, could you give us more info on how it sounds? Is it comparable to a trunk setup? Deep bass? Tight bass? Not strong enough? Thanks!
Compared to a trunk setup the sound is more surrounding you that coming from behind, I do not actually hear (almost) that it's from under the seat.

If you turn it louder that's time for a nice and relaxing butt massage.

It's deep bass indeed, but I'm still fighting to get the right frequences distribuated to sub / other speakers.

Abstract from AMP manual...





What does subsonic freq mean ? on/off ? on which channel ?

I'll keep posting my findings.
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      04-02-2007, 06:31 AM   #30
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"subsonic" filters extrem deep frequences to protec woofers of damage.
They filter under 30 or 25hz. Swith it on if you have your woofers on a seperate channel.
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      04-02-2007, 07:33 AM   #31
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Did you run the "white noise" calibration with the cleansweep? For some reason I thought the JL DSP would be able to calibrate acoustic settings/feedback from the car in real time to adjust for differences in signal input. Have you checked on the internet for posts on the cleansweep? You might find some adjustment tips. Cheers
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      04-02-2007, 12:39 PM   #32
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etik,

From your pictures, it seems that you just mounted the sub on the piece of wood, and the wood in the hole of the original enclosure?

Did you do anything to seal/soundproof the area below the sub? Isnt that the floorpan of the car?
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      04-02-2007, 01:05 PM   #33
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Quote:
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etik,

From your pictures, it seems that you just mounted the sub on the piece of wood, and the wood in the hole of the original enclosure?

Did you do anything to seal/soundproof the area below the sub? Isnt that the floorpan of the car?
I'm planning for a soundproof custom enclosure, but for now it's the floorpan of the car that is being used not optimum but it very difficult to make a custom enclosure made of wood. I think I will have to switch to fiberglass but I never did that, so I would take some advice around before starting the job.
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      04-02-2007, 01:13 PM   #34
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do you think fiberglass offers the same "resonance property" (<-- I don't think that's even a word ) as wood? if so, fiberglass will definitely be easier to work with than wood

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I'm planning for a soundproof custom enclosure, but for now it's the floorpan of the car that is being used not optimum but it very difficult to make a custom enclosure made of wood. I think I will have to switch to fiberglass but I never did that, so I would take some advice around before starting the job.
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      04-02-2007, 04:41 PM   #35
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do you think fiberglass offers the same "resonance property" (<-- I don't think that's even a word ) as wood? if so, fiberglass will definitely be easier to work with than wood
worth trying ? anyone ?
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      04-02-2007, 06:10 PM   #36
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Hold on, you don't want to make an enclosure, you need to make the wood air tight round the top of the cabinet that you have used, and leave the bottom as it is, this is because the subs use the channels in the floorpan and sills to increase cabinet volume.
Unless the top is air tight you will have terrible results, so cut another piece of wood to but up to the edge of the original casing and then put sealant round the edge, this should give you the sound you are looking for.
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      04-02-2007, 06:50 PM   #37
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what cabinet? I thought that these were mounted underseat?

am i wrong?
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      04-02-2007, 08:33 PM   #38
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He means to say the undermount enclosure. THe OEM woofer is mounted tight and sealed, while Etik's has air leaking out . If you go with the sealant, I would go with a silicone.
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      04-03-2007, 03:10 AM   #39
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Yeah sorry, the bass speaker sits inside a plastic enclosure, this has a port in it that puts out air into the floorpan of the car, so it uses the car as a way to increase cabinet volume.
With this design you need to have the driver air tight, you can't have it like etik has, you just won't get any volume, if you took the bass driver out of a home speaker you can't hear it, same with this, you need it to be in there air tight or not bother.
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      04-03-2007, 03:30 AM   #40
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Quote:
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With this design you need to have the driver air tight, you can't have it like etik has, you just won't get any volume, if you took the bass driver out of a home speaker you can't hear it, same with this, you need it to be in there air tight or not bother.
correct, I'll be working in this soon. The problem is the material ? should I still try with wood ? this is made very difficult because of the shape of the enclosure or with fiberglass ? I'll talk with some car audio specialist by end of this week to get their views.

Still it performs quite well, but could be much better.
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      04-03-2007, 03:58 AM   #41
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I would have bought a couple of the Pioneers myself, but I have spent so much this month that I thought I would wait a while, bought the car, boughtthe Diamond Audio M6 speakers and a Genesis Profile Four Ultra amp.

I may install the amp next week and thought I it would be worth taking the passenger side sub out and seeing what other options I have, there are a couple of shallow mount 10" subs on the market, but not sure what space I have to work with?
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      04-03-2007, 04:15 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etik View Post
correct, I'll be working in this soon. The problem is the material ? should I still try with wood ? this is made very difficult because of the shape of the enclosure or with fiberglass ? I'll talk with some car audio specialist by end of this week to get their views.

Still it performs quite well, but could be much better.
etik, yes use the fiberglass.
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      04-04-2007, 06:53 AM   #43
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etik, yes use the fiberglass.
thanks, I will give it a try next week, I will be on holiday.

I thinking now about re-using the original enclosure with a spacer to fit the new sub.

That shouldn't be too difficult but I wonder if it will still fit under the seat ??

Will let you know my findings.
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      04-04-2007, 07:45 AM   #44
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My impressions on looking at the sub were that there is plenty of room for a slight protrusion of the sub under the seat. Am I completely wrong?
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