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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > The N54 engine pistons are cast (and not forged).



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      06-09-2011, 10:01 PM   #177
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What did I do?
Nothing, I said you know what you're talking about.
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      06-09-2011, 10:02 PM   #178
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Thank you, I really appreciate your time asking the shop and sharing your information with us on the forum
No problem. So it looks like they made a switch from forged to cast, but noone knows where.

The shop also said there was a significant difference in both pistons, further confirming my August 2006 built had forged ipistons.
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      06-09-2011, 10:10 PM   #179
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No problem. So it looks like they made a switch from forged to cast, but noone knows where.

The shop also said there was a significant difference in both pistons, further confirming my August 2006 built had forged ipistons.
Very interesting.
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      06-09-2011, 10:11 PM   #180
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Nothing, I said you know what you're talking about.
Ohhhhh. LOL.
Sorry, this thread got weird.
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      06-10-2011, 12:27 AM   #181
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From die harD?! lol
somebody got it... All someone needs to do is show a pic of the two... Lol.
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      06-10-2011, 10:57 AM   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dzenno View Post
Just looked it up on realoem.com and I don't know where you guys got the numbers above but it looks wrong...here's info from realoem.com (notice the "UP TO" date, its 12/2009, starting with Dec 2009 the N54 piston part number changed, see below):

========

No. Description Supplement Qty From Up To Part Number Price Notes
01 Piston (0) 6 12/2009 11257577581 $354.95
01 Piston (+0,25) 6 12/2009 11257577582

======

THEN selecting the batch of N54s built while N55s were out shows that starting in 12/2009 a new part number of the N54 pistons came out: 11257610295, 11257610296:

===
No. Description Supplement Qty From Up To Part Number Price Notes
01 Piston (0) 6 12/2009 11257610295
01 Piston (+0,25) 6 12/2009 11257610296
====

Notice that this new set of piston parts started in Dec 2009.

What this clarifies is the following:

1) All cars built before December 2009 have the same pistons
2) 3 members of this board had their engines taken apart and got confirmation on FORGED pistons, rods and crankshaft (enrita, unfor and E92Fan)

What's not clear:

1) Starting with Dec 2009 N54 pistons, are these still forged or cast?

Mahle isn't clear and "very possibly" referred to late model N54s (Dec 2009+)...

There is "no doubt" N54 pistons BEFORE Dec 2009 are forged as this has been confirmed multiple times...
Lots of misinformation in this thread but this sums it up. This thread should be locked or cleaned up. Think about this logically guys....why would bmw put forged pistons in to begin with if they didn't feel it was needed just to turn around to put cast version in 2 years in? I highly doubt bmw was still stress testing the N54 after it was released and they wouldn't just throw in something into the engine without going through a full R&D process. Also...bmw has been known to change part numbers for no reason. We see this all the time for a lot of other bmw parts that looks exactly the same

Alan
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      06-10-2011, 09:31 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by Alan l. View Post
Lots of misinformation in this thread but this sums it up. This thread should be locked or cleaned up. Think about this logically guys....why would bmw put forged pistons in to begin with if they didn't feel it was needed just to turn around to put cast version in 2 years in? I highly doubt bmw was still stress testing the N54 after it was released and they wouldn't just throw in something into the engine without going through a full R&D process. Also...bmw has been known to change part numbers for no reason. We see this all the time for a lot of other bmw parts that looks exactly the same

Alan
Maybe they started making the pistons cheaper so they could afford all of the fuel pumps they've had to replace.
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      06-10-2011, 10:26 PM   #184
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Maybe they started making the pistons cheaper so they could afford all of the fuel pumps they've had to replace.
Nothing would surprise me. There is a thread around here that kept track of all the things they cut. Stuff as stupid as getting rid of the tool kit. It's there in my 2007 but was cut out shortly after. Would love if my sunroof get stuck open, go to the tool holder in the trunk so I can manually close it, only to find the tool holder with no tools in it.

The premium stereo also came automatically with the 335 and then it became an add on option, etc., etc., and who can blame them? The USD has been devalued like crazy while real wages are slightly down. You have to cut to keep the nominal price close and keep some kind of real margin going while offering a price that people will still consider.
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      06-11-2011, 06:58 AM   #185
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Flash lights no longer available, hood insulator no longer available, cigarette lighter, tools, and I am sure there are a couple more. From a business standpoint eliminating those items that most will not notice can reduce the overall overhead of the company by millions and millions. I think this forge to cast is not far fetched and there is truth to it
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      06-11-2011, 07:29 AM   #186
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So, all owners of newer 335's are sitting on a ticking piston bomb
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      06-11-2011, 07:49 AM   #187
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Guys... Swapping out storage nets behind the seats and removing the tool box is VERY different from swapping out a major engine component. Did anyone read what dzenno posted about the part dates dates??? You guys are going by 1) what a aftermarket company is saying and 2) some he said she said mechanic. For all we know BMW could have changed the part numbers at the end of 12/2009 for no reason (happens all the time) or they could have enhanced it for the upcoming IS and 1m models.

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Last edited by Alan l.; 06-11-2011 at 07:55 AM.
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      06-11-2011, 08:16 AM   #188
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Guys... Swapping out storage nets behind the seats and removing the tool box is VERY different from swapping out a major engine component. Did anyone read what dzenno posted about the part dates dates??? You guys are going by 1) what a aftermarket company is saying and 2) some he said she said mechanic. For all we know BMW could have changed the part numbers at the end of 12/2009 for no reason (happens all the time) or they could have enhanced it for the upcoming IS and 1m models.

Alan
Yes - Have read every post. We won't know on the newest part until someone ponies up $300 and orders one, and on the oldest part, finds one somewhere. The rest is all banter and noise. I think with the skeptics someone would have to send the part off to a refiner or lab to produce a formal analysis to be accepted as fact
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      06-11-2011, 08:22 AM   #189
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All three guys that had their engines opened up has confirmed this, I guess we just have to wait till someone with a later date after the parts # change to do a major engine overhaul to confirm this. Your right Alan, at this point its speculation but I still believe given how companies are in making profit while trying to still have a set price, there is truth to this, but for it to be proven we have to wait and see
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      06-11-2011, 09:06 AM   #190
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All three guys that had their engines opened up has confirmed this, I guess we just have to wait till someone with a later date after the parts # change to do a major engine overhaul to confirm this. Your right Alan, at this point its speculation but I still believe given how companies are in making profit while trying to still have a set price, there is truth to this, but for it to be proven we have to wait and see
You may be right, but it would certainly be inconsistent with BMW's deserved reputation for building very well-engineered and solid short block engines. It's ancillary pieces (think oil pumps and HPFPs) and stuff like weak strut towers where I suspect that the bean counters play a larger role.

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      06-11-2011, 09:12 AM   #191
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I work for a dealership. I could order one piston of the newer part number if somebody local (chicago area) has the knowledge/equipment to verify forged vs. cast.

You can shine, tumble, or condition the exterior of a cast piston to look however you want, I'm not certain it's something you could eyeball. Perhaps if a shop local had an old piston and we could weigh them, etc, that would be revealing.
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      06-11-2011, 09:35 AM   #192
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If you can take detail pictures of it from different views it may help and we could at least see if there is any difference at all from older pistons that are depicted by Enrita and E92fan.
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      06-11-2011, 09:43 AM   #193
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I work for a dealership. I could order one piston of the newer part number if somebody local (chicago area) has the knowledge/equipment to verify forged vs. cast.

You can shine, tumble, or condition the exterior of a cast piston to look however you want, I'm not certain it's something you could eyeball. Perhaps if a shop local had an old piston and we could weigh them, etc, that would be revealing.
Do you void warranties?
You should try to order one.
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      06-11-2011, 10:39 AM   #194
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I work for a dealership. I could order one piston of the newer part number if somebody local (chicago area) has the knowledge/equipment to verify forged vs. cast.

You can shine, tumble, or condition the exterior of a cast piston to look however you want, I'm not certain it's something you could eyeball. Perhaps if a shop local had an old piston and we could weigh them, etc, that would be revealing.
can you determine if is forged vs. cast from its density? That could be measured with a large beaker and a scale.
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      06-11-2011, 12:32 PM   #195
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Looks like I can't order one (at least I can't order an N55 piston, the 409 part number because there are ZERO in the country.

It doesn't cost my parts department anything if I throw one on a ground order from one of our stocking warehouses, but it DOES cost me to order from Germany. Sadly, the boss frowns upon me incurring the dealership fees to satisfy my own curiosity
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      06-11-2011, 12:35 PM   #196
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Looks like I can't order one (at least I can't order an N55 piston, the 409 part number because there are ZERO in the country.

It doesn't cost my parts department anything if I throw one on a ground order from one of our stocking warehouses, but it DOES cost me to order from Germany. Sadly, the boss frowns upon me incurring the dealership fees to satisfy my own curiosity
Oh man that's too bad. Any way you can get one of the older part numbers to confirm they are forged?
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      08-10-2011, 09:03 AM   #197
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Wait. So did the part numbers change in 2007 or 2009? People are saying both things.

I've been debating throwing a turbo kit and some other things into my car now that the warranty is shot and would love to know if I already have fully forged internals.

06/2008 build
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      08-10-2011, 09:30 AM   #198
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Forget about the N55 pistons, just get the N54 pistons to examine..
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