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      03-09-2012, 12:52 PM   #111
Autobahn335i
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Thanks for the update.

I can understand that a custom fabrication is cost intensive. But at the new price tag the cost-benefit ratio becomes prohibitive. After all I'm not building a pro racecar here, so a total cost of close to $2000 (shipping and installation incl) for just an improved radiator is over the top for me.

I'm sure the product will work great but I can't justifiy that expense
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      03-09-2012, 05:19 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Autobahn335i View Post
Thanks for the update.

I can understand that a custom fabrication is cost intensive. But at the new price tag the cost-benefit ratio becomes prohibitive. After all I'm not building a pro racecar here, so a total cost of close to $2000 (shipping and installation incl) for just an improved radiator is over the top for me.

I'm sure the product will work great but I can't justifiy that expense
Hey mate,

that's ok as I understand that for many, the revised price may be too big to swallow.

After all the time and effort I have personally put into getting the AT rad' sorted, I would dearly love to sell a few units.

FYI,

I am told that the retail price for a "Custom Build" unit of this size, that features their core "Close Mesh Core" upgrade, as well as additional billet fittings would be approximately $1,350.

Truth be told our profit margin for a $1,350 component is quite small, I would love to be able to further reduce the GB price, but we really cannot afford to do so.

However I am happy to say that for all the AT owners that track their cars regularly and want to upgrade their radiator, there is finally a solution available.

PWR are very confident our AT rad' will massively outperform the OE unit with regards heat transfer capability and we at Adavn performance are very confident, it will be a true "direct fit" component, we guarantee that.

Cheers,

JD.
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      03-10-2012, 09:24 PM   #113
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      03-11-2012, 05:59 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin@ADVAN Performance View Post
Hi guys,

given that the AT rad' for the N54 loses approximately 12% of its frontal surface area for the purposes of transmission cooling, the Tech' at PWR recommended the use of their "Close Mesh Core Configuration", for vehicles that are not daily driven or for owners that live in a cooler climate.

The core upgrade adds an additional $165 to the cost of the rad', however I am told that pricing can be reduced as part of the GB, pending the total number of units ordered.

FYI,

the MT 5970 rad' can also be ordered with the core upgrade, for those guys wishing to maximise cooling efficiency at the race track.

Here are two cross-sectional pics illustrating the difference in core construction between the standard core and the "Close Mesh" option on the right.

Cheers,

Justin.
That's too bad. I was going to jump in on your group buy once things shook out with the AT rad, but my car is a DD and I live in a warm climate.
Still no solution (other than BMW PK) after 5 years
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      03-11-2012, 07:10 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by cvc 22349a View Post
That's too bad. I was going to jump in on your group buy once things shook out with the AT rad, but my car is a DD and I live in a warm climate.
Still no solution (other than BMW PK) after 5 years
Hey cvc,

I very much doubt the supplemental radiator' from the PPK used in conjunction with the OE AT rad', would have the heat transfer capabilities of our upgraded AT Advan/PWR radiator.

It's a shame there is not more interest in our upgraded AT unit, if 10 guys chipped in $50 each I could convince Pete to pony up the remainder of the cash, to throw a sample unit into our AT 335i shop car.

We are still having some warm days here in Sydney and the stop-go traffic is the worst.

It would be an ideal environment to test the low airflow speed cooling, of the "Close Mesh Core Configuration".

Last edited by Justin@ADVAN Performance; 03-11-2012 at 08:35 AM. Reason: Typo
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      03-11-2012, 07:13 AM   #116
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Why don't people just buy the BMW Power Kit radiator and hoses ? I think the price would be like $400 or so and you can install it yourself at a stretch.
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      03-11-2012, 12:06 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin@ADVAN Performance View Post
Hey cvc,

I very much doubt the supplemental radiator' from the PPK used in conjunction with the OE AT rad', would have the heat transfer capabilities of our upgraded AT Advan/PWR radiator.

It's a shame there is not more interest in our upgraded AT unit, if 10 guys chipped in $50 each I could convince Pete to pony up the remainder of the cash, to throw a sample unit into our AT 335i shop car.

We are still having some warm days here in Sydney and the stop-go traffic is the worst.

It would be an ideal environment to test the low airflow speed cooling, of the "Close Mesh Core Configuration".
I'm not going to chip in for R&D. That's ridiculous. Build a product that fits and is proven to work (unlike AR) and then sell it.
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      03-11-2012, 12:10 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin@ADVAN Performance View Post
Hey cvc,

I very much doubt the supplemental radiator' from the PPK used in conjunction with the OE AT rad', would have the heat transfer capabilities of our upgraded AT Advan/PWR radiator.

It's a shame there is not more interest in our upgraded AT unit, if 10 guys chipped in $50 each I could convince Pete to pony up the remainder of the cash, to throw a sample unit into our AT 335i shop car.

We are still having some warm days here in Sydney and the stop-go traffic is the worst.

It would be an ideal environment to test the low airflow speed cooling, of the "Close Mesh Core Configuration".
so PWR is not even going to make a version for AT now even if you supplied all the info needed?
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      03-11-2012, 03:09 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin@ADVAN Performance View Post
Hey cvc,

I very much doubt the supplemental radiator' from the PPK used in conjunction with the OE AT rad', would have the heat transfer capabilities of our upgraded AT Advan/PWR radiator.

It's a shame there is not more interest in our upgraded AT unit, if 10 guys chipped in $50 each I could convince Pete to pony up the remainder of the cash, to throw a sample unit into our AT 335i shop car.

We are still having some warm days here in Sydney and the stop-go traffic is the worst.

It would be an ideal environment to test the low airflow speed cooling, of the "Close Mesh Core Configuration".
I am okay with the price which is very resonable for a 1st run cutom unit but the total lack of any details about the core design is a show stopper for me. The idea that the radiator may not work at lower speeds is not an option I am willing to consider.

I think you need to clear that you are no longer doing an AT prototype at this moment?
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      03-11-2012, 03:19 PM   #120
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I'm not going to chip in for R&D. That's ridiculous. Build a product that fits and is proven to work (unlike AR) and then sell it.
Hey cvc,

well the problem is whilst Peter and I know the Advan/PWR rad will be "a good thing" on the race track, we also know that very few forum members will be prepared to pay $1,245 for a rad' upgrade, regardless of how well it reduces thermal stress on the motor under extreme track conditions.

As I said before I am fully aware that "the revised price may be too big to swallow".

If we had a list of 4 or 5 guys that would commit to purchasing the rad' providing it tested well and fitment was perfect, we would go ahead and spend the $1K + on a singular sample unit and fit it up to our shop car for evaluation.

Would you pay the asking price if we verified water temps are ok in stop-go traffic and we guaranteed fitment would be perfect?

Cheers,

JD.
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      03-11-2012, 03:48 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tscdennab View Post
Why don't people just buy the BMW Power Kit radiator and hoses ? I think the price would be like $400 or so and you can install it yourself at a stretch.
I got this installed two weeks ago. With normal driving, outside temps around 50, I see coolant temps go up to 220 degrees. So this leaves a "safety margin" of around 20 degrees at the racetrack until the DME starts cutting the power. I hope this will be enough of a margin but I don't know for sure as I couldn't keep track of coolant temps last year (thanks to BMW for not putting a water temp gauge in our cars...).
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      03-11-2012, 04:38 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Autobahn335i View Post
I got this installed two weeks ago. With normal driving, outside temps around 50, I see coolant temps go up to 220 degrees. So this leaves a "safety margin" of around 20 degrees at the racetrack until the DME starts cutting the power. I hope this will be enough of a margin but I don't know for sure as I couldn't keep track of coolant temps last year (thanks to BMW for not putting a water temp gauge in our cars...).
thats what i get without the ppk . You might get lower temps driving fast with faster recovery.
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      03-11-2012, 04:45 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin@ADVAN Performance View Post
Hey cvc,

well the problem is whilst Peter and I know the Advan/PWR rad will be "a good thing" on the race track, we also know that very few forum members will be prepared to pay $1,245 for a rad' upgrade, regardless of how well it reduces thermal stress on the motor under extreme track conditions.

As I said before I am fully aware that "the revised price may be too big to swallow".

If we had a list of 4 or 5 guys that would commit to purchasing the rad' providing it tested well and fitment was perfect, we would go ahead and spend the $1K + on a singular sample unit and fit it up to our shop car for evaluation.

Would you pay the asking price if we verified water temps are ok in stop-go traffic and we guaranteed fitment would be perfect?

Cheers,

JD.
With which core?
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      03-11-2012, 04:49 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by tscdennab View Post
Why don't people just buy the BMW Power Kit radiator and hoses ? I think the price would be like $400 or so and you can install it yourself at a stretch.
So this would just increase coolant volume w/o the required electronic upgrade to control the HD fan?
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      03-11-2012, 04:56 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Autobahn335i View Post
I got this installed two weeks ago. With normal driving, outside temps around 50, I see coolant temps go up to 220 degrees. So this leaves a "safety margin" of around 20 degrees at the racetrack until the DME starts cutting the power. I hope this will be enough of a margin but I don't know for sure as I couldn't keep track of coolant temps last year (thanks to BMW for not putting a water temp gauge in our cars...).
Any evidence the additional rad lowers coolant temps? 50d isn't warm.
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      03-11-2012, 05:30 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by cvc 22349a View Post
So this would just increase coolant volume w/o the required electronic upgrade to control the HD fan?
Yes. And if you also spend the money to install the proper bumper air ducts to the radiator, it can be quite efficient too. Of course, if you install the radiator without the bumper air ducts it will not be so efficient but nevertheless it's a very solid and problem-free solution.
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      03-11-2012, 05:36 PM   #127
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Any evidence the additional rad lowers coolant temps? 50d isn't warm.
Unfortunately I don't have hard numbers, as I didn't have a coolant temp gauge yet. Now I have the leatherZ gauge kit installed so I can monitor temps.
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      03-11-2012, 06:41 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by tscdennab View Post
Yes. And if you also spend the money to install the proper bumper air ducts to the radiator, it can be quite efficient too. Of course, if you install the radiator without the bumper air ducts it will not be so efficient but nevertheless it's a very solid and problem-free solution.
Hate to go OT in a PWR thread, but I will look into that. I thought you needed to install the whole PK which I don't want to do.
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      03-12-2012, 02:12 AM   #129
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I am in for the radiator

location is OC california

please pm a shipped price and availability detail

cheers
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      03-12-2012, 02:51 AM   #130
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lets dont go OT here, its about PWR , not PPK
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      03-12-2012, 12:23 PM   #131
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Quote:
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so PWR is not even going to make a version for AT now even if you supplied all the info needed?
Hey enrita,

at this point in time PWR have no intention, of making it a readily available "catalogue item".
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      03-12-2012, 01:09 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orb View Post
I am okay with the price which is very resonable for a 1st run cutom unit but the total lack of any details about the core design is a show stopper for me. The idea that the radiator may not work at lower speeds is not an option I am willing to consider.
Hi Orb,

I do not think it's too much to ask, that you put a little faith in the engineering expertise & design knowledge of PWR.

Which is why given the volume limitations of the rad' and the requirement of a cross-flow core in lieu of the AT heat exchanger, they are insisting on using their "Close Mesh Core Configuration" to ensure their efficiency goals are meet.

Also do not be concerned about the radiator becoming "laminar" due to a lack of coolant turbulence, as they will be utilising a "dimple tube" in their design revision if they deem it necessary, following calculations of the coolant volume flow rate.

Below is a quote from one of their engineers, in response to your concerns regarding coolant volume flow rate and a possible lack of coolant turbulence.

"Our tubes are by no means ordinary or basic in design and we have features in the tubes that keep the coolant turbulent to ensure maximum cooling is achieved, as at the end of the day you are trying to give the coolant enough time in the radiator for sufficient heat transfer but also trying to make sure that the engine has a sufficient supply of coolant."

There is no doubt in my mind that "at speed" on the racetrack, the Advan/PWR AT rad' with the "Close Mesh Core" will perform very well indeed.

What they are unsure of is how well it will transfer heat at low air speeds, in stop-go traffic.

They have not tested the flow rate of the BMW OE thermatic fan, I do not know the maximum CFM rating of the fan, nor does PWR.

That being said Peter has had a good look at the fan unit previously, in his opinion the assembly is quite large and "should" be up to the task of pulling an adequate quantity of air through the core at low vehicle speeds, to maintain reasonable water temps.

As I mentioned previously this is something we would have to verify.

Last edited by Justin@ADVAN Performance; 03-12-2012 at 01:46 PM. Reason: Typo
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