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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Raced a Jeep SRT8 uphill at 4500 ft. from 0-100.



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      04-05-2007, 09:44 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by CoralRedPlz View Post
i was with shiv at the boulder, CO dyno day which is at 5300ft, and the dyno runs showed what a great job they (bmw) did in adjusting for altitude.

the losses were fairly close to 0 if i remember right. which would explain why the 335 completely walked the NA jeep.
almost 0 loss at 5300ft? wow, that's impressive. What about spool up? Evos and STIs loose an average of 500rpm to get full boost. Mine went from 2500rpm (sea level) to 3000rpm (6500 ft.), and adjusting the MBC did not help at all to fix the issue.

I'm pretty curious to see how 335s do at the quarter mile track over there.
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      04-05-2007, 09:50 AM   #24
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Yes, you're right, NA cars loose more power than FI cars at altitude, but keep in mind that, like the 335, the SRT8's official 425hp are quite underrated. Also, your Procede 335 is pushing more than 360 horses at the cranck...more likely 390/400. (330 whp average with an aproximate 20% drivetrain loss)

BTW, FI cars loose more than 2-3% at 6000ft. I lived 2 years in Colorado Springs (6500 ft) and my Evo was almost a full second slower in the quarter mile compared to sea level. My estimate is a 18-20% loss. There's also the spool up issue: max boost at sea level was around 2600rpm...at 6500 it was achieved at 3100rpm (got lag?).

My car dynoed 310 whp. Most proceed cars on 91 are dynoing 315-320, mine was slightly less due to the dyno being at 5200 feet in boulder, co.

Also, BMW has already stated the drivetrain loss for the AT is 15% and the MT is 13%. This is generally accepted on this forum.

My 2-3% estimation was based on the elevation of 4500 ft. in which I raced the srt8 jeep, like I said before.

The only people with 330whp are either 93 octane or 91 octane with catback exhaust.
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      04-05-2007, 09:52 AM   #25
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almost 0 loss at 5300ft? wow, that's impressive. What about spool up? Evos and STIs loose an average of 500rpm to get full boost. Mine went from 2500rpm (sea level) to 3000rpm (6500 ft.), and adjusting the MBC did not help at all to fix the issue.

I'm pretty curious to see how 335s do at the quarter mile track over there.
like corn just said, the loss was very small. enough that shiv didnt use the typical altitude conversion factor on the dyno to compensate. when he did that, the numbers were obviously inflated, like 300whp stock if i remember right.

and you would have to ask shiv the spoolup question, im a turbo noob
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      04-05-2007, 10:01 AM   #26
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I believe that this is a Procede 335. Stock SRT8s run 13.2 in the quarter, just a tick faster than a stock 335.
No PROcede. Stock 335i.
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      04-05-2007, 10:30 AM   #27
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My car dynoed 310 whp. Most proceed cars on 91 are dynoing 315-320, mine was slightly less due to the dyno being at 5200 feet in boulder, co.

Also, BMW has already stated the drivetrain loss for the AT is 15% and the MT is 13%. This is generally accepted on this forum.

My 2-3% estimation was based on the elevation of 4500 ft. in which I raced the srt8 jeep, like I said before.

The only people with 330whp are either 93 octane or 91 octane with catback exhaust.
Hey man, were you the one in the black E90? Those whp numbers sound miiiiighty familiar.
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      04-05-2007, 02:56 PM   #28
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I've heard several stories of SRT8s holding 2-3 car leads through the quarter on stock 335s. How quick have stock 335s run? Grand SRT8s have ran as quick as 12.8s with quite a few posting 13.0s. Regardless, both vehicles are very impressive.

If anyone in Reno would like to have a friendly race or two with a stock SRT8 I'm game. You should have the edge given our elevation.
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      04-05-2007, 03:18 PM   #29
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I've heard several stories of SRT8s holding 2-3 car leads through the quarter on stock 335s. How quick have stock 335s run? Grand SRT8s have ran as quick as 12.8s with quite a few posting 13.0s. Regardless, both vehicles are very impressive.

If anyone in Reno would like to have a friendly race or two with a stock SRT8 I'm game. You should have the edge given our elevation.
I'd race ya! But my 335i has not arrived yet
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      04-06-2007, 02:25 PM   #30
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I've heard several stories of SRT8s holding 2-3 car leads through the quarter on stock 335s. How quick have stock 335s run? Grand SRT8s have ran as quick as 12.8s with quite a few posting 13.0s. Regardless, both vehicles are very impressive.
Stock 335s run 13.3-13.5. Procede 335s run 12.9-13.0. That's why I said that something wasn't right on this video from Kuwait where a stock 335 kills a Grand SRT8. In countries like Kuwait the average temperature is 120-130 degreees. Therefore FI cars loose more power than NA cars over there. (I lived over there for one year)

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...highlight=srt8
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      04-06-2007, 02:44 PM   #31
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I've heard several stories of SRT8s holding 2-3 car leads through the quarter on stock 335s. How quick have stock 335s run? Grand SRT8s have ran as quick as 12.8s with quite a few posting 13.0s. Regardless, both vehicles are very impressive.

If anyone in Reno would like to have a friendly race or two with a stock SRT8 I'm game. You should have the edge given our elevation.
The SRT8 is faster in the 0-60 and in the 1/4. As you may have noticed, the 335 i is faster on e90post.com than it is in real life.
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      04-06-2007, 06:11 PM   #32
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It amazes me how big a difference elevation makes. My car is proceeded FYI.

NA cars just die at this elevation.

Let's just say that I started behind the Jeep and by the time I hit 100 I was ahead by 6 or 7 car lengths. I must say though, it's amazing how fast those things are considering it's weight. I imagine it's gotta weigh at least 5500 lbs.
You Are Honestley Out Of Your Mind If You Say You Put 6-7 Car Lenghts On A GCSRT8 By 100Mph... An M5 Wouldnt Even Do That! There Are Stock GCSRT8'S Running 12.7 Et's At 108-109 Mph And Some Have Seen 3.9 Second 0-60 Times. Are You Sure It Was An SRT8? It Was Probably A 5.7 Either That Or He Wasnt Trying At All. I Reside In The High Desert In Southern California(Antelope Valley More Specifically) And The Majority Of My Races Take Place Anywhere From 3000-4000 Ft Above Sea Level. I Have Beat C5 Z06's, Svt Cobras, Sti's, Modified Lightnings, From 0 To 100 Mph( Some Far North Of 100) So If You Are Ever Up Here Shoot Me A Pm And I'd Be Glad To Run Ya..
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      04-06-2007, 06:26 PM   #33
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You Are Honestley Out Of Your Mind If You Say You Put 6-7 Car Lenghts On A GCSRT8 By 100Mph... An M5 Wouldnt Even Do That! There Are Stock GCSRT8'S Running 12.7 Et's At 108-109 Mph And Some Have Seen 3.9 Second 0-60 Times. Are You Sure It Was An SRT8? It Was Probably A 5.7 Either That Or He Wasnt Trying At All. I Reside In The High Desert In Southern California(Antelope Valley More Specifically) And The Majority Of My Races Take Place Anywhere From 3000-4000 Ft Above Sea Level. I Have Beat C5 Z06's, Svt Cobras, Sti's, Modified Lightnings, From 0 To 100 Mph( Some Far North Of 100) So If You Are Ever Up Here Shoot Me A Pm And I'd Be Glad To Run Ya..


parked cars dont count.
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      04-06-2007, 06:35 PM   #34
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parked cars dont count.
Haha So Funny I Forgot To Laugh.... No These Cars Were Not Parked They Were Very Much Alive. You Apparentley Have Not The Slightest Bit Of Knowledge When It Comes To Specifications Of High Performance Vehicles.. Check Your Shit Make Sure It Is Correct And Just To Let You Know if I Ever Come Across The Owner Of The Yellow Z06 Again He Will Glady Admit To This...Hell He Even Wanted To But My Jeep!
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      04-06-2007, 06:49 PM   #35
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Haha So Funny I Forgot To Laugh.... No These Cars Were Not Parked They Were Very Much Alive. You Apparentley Have Not The Slightest Bit Of Knowledge When It Comes To Specifications Of High Performance Vehicles.. Check Your Shit Make Sure It Is Correct And Just To Let You Know if I Ever Come Across The Owner Of The Yellow Z06 Again He Will Glady Admit To This...Hell He Even Wanted To But My Jeep!
While I agree that an Chrysler SRT-8 vs. a stock 335i would be close, the funny thing is that you'd never know if the next 335i you challenge will be PROcede-equipped or not.

Only when you get walked away by a 335i will you know! And, please don't say that this will never happen, b/c I know from first-hand experience that it absolutely can time and time again (as a guy in a brand new 300C SRT-8 tried over and over again for ~ 15 min. to just keep up with me and he could not...and believe me, he was trying ). I think he was totally stumped and pissed that he could not beat a little Bimmer 3-series...he wouldn't even give me a respectful thumbsup when we both exited the hwy. at the same exit.

While I agree your car is crazy fast, I think its weight and its less than ideal aerodynamics hamper its abilities at higher speeds.
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      04-06-2007, 06:58 PM   #36
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While I agree that an Chrysler SRT-8 vs. a stock 335i would be close, the funny thing is that you'd never know if the next 335i you challenge will be PROcede-equipped or not.

Only when you get walked away by a 335i will you know! And, please don't say that this will never happen, b/c I know from first-hand experience that it absolutely can time and time again (as a guy in a brand new 300C SRT-8 tried over and over again for ~ 15 min. to just keep up with me and he could not...and believe me, he was trying ). I think he was totally stumped and pissed that he could not beat a little Bimmer 3-series...he wouldn't even give me a respectful thumbsup when we both exited the hwy. at the same exit.

While I agree your car is crazy fast, I think its weight and its less than ideal aerodynamics hamper its abilities at higher speeds.

You Guys Never Cease To Amaze Me. Line Up With Me Any STOCK 335i And I Will Beat It Even In The High End These Jeeps Do Speeds In Excess Of 165 Mph(I Have A Picture To Prove It. And I Am Sorry i Will Have To Call Bullshit To That One The 300SRT8 Pulls A C6 Corvette Anywhere Over 100Mph. Proceded Or Not No 335i Will WALK AWAY From Any Stock SRT8... Maybe It Will Beat It By A SLIGHT Margin But No More... Also The Fact That They Might Not Have Downshifted Plays A Crucial Role As Well the PCM's On The SRT8 Have Spots Where They Wont Downshift Unless AutoStick Is Used...
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      04-06-2007, 06:59 PM   #37
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You Are Honestley Out Of Your Mind If You Say You Put 6-7 Car Lenghts On A GCSRT8 By 100Mph... An M5 Wouldnt Even Do That! There Are Stock GCSRT8'S Running 12.7 Et's At 108-109 Mph And Some Have Seen 3.9 Second 0-60 Times. Are You Sure It Was An SRT8? It Was Probably A 5.7 Either That Or He Wasnt Trying At All. I Reside In The High Desert In Southern California(Antelope Valley More Specifically) And The Majority Of My Races Take Place Anywhere From 3000-4000 Ft Above Sea Level. I Have Beat C5 Z06's, Svt Cobras, Sti's, Modified Lightnings, From 0 To 100 Mph( Some Far North Of 100) So If You Are Ever Up Here Shoot Me A Pm And I'd Be Glad To Run Ya..

It's hard to say exactly how many car lengths. But if you calculate the loss in power at 4000 ft. I put down about 365 crank hp at 5k feet.

Just look at the power to weight ratio.

335i/Procede=9.79 lbs per 1 hp.

Jeep srt8@4000 (estimate just 8% loss)=391 hp and 4800 lbs=12.27 lbs per 1hp

Whadaya think would happen? It's not like my car shifts slower or something

It wasn't even close.

FWIW, I've beat my buddies 300c srt8 at 4k feet, every time, by a significant margin, I think they weight about 4150lbs.

Once again, look at the 300c srt8's power/weight 8% loss due to altitude.

10.61 lbs per 1 hp.


These number's I've mentioned doesn't take into account that I put down about 420 lb ft torque at the crank.

If you looked at the torque/weight ratio, I would be way, way ahead.

There have been many tests at higher elevations on na vs fi. Just do a google search. I've seen two tests comparing sea level to 6k feet with the na cars losing 14-20% of their sea level dyno power at 6k feet in colorado. Whereas the FI cars lose 2-4%.

Now a good race would be at procede 335i vs 300c srt8 at sea level.

Last edited by Cornhusker; 04-06-2007 at 07:18 PM.
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      04-06-2007, 07:21 PM   #38
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It's hard to say exactly how many car lengths. But if you calculate the loss in power at 4000 ft. I put down about 365 crank hp at 5k feet.

Just look at the power to weight ratio.

335i/Procede=9.79 lbs per 1 hp.

Jeep srt8@4000 (estimate just 8% loss)=391 hp and 4800 lbs=12.27 lbs per 1hp

Whadaya think would happen? It's not like my car shifts slower or something

It wasn't even close.

FWIW, I've beat my buddies 300c srt8 at 4k feet, every time, by a significant margin, I think they weight about 4150lbs.

Once again, look at the 300c srt8's power/weight 8% loss due to altitude.

10.61 lbs per 1 hp.


These number's I've mentioned doesn't take into account that I put down about 420 lb ft torque at the crank.

If you looked at the torque/weight ratio, I would be way, way ahead.

Notice How I Said STOCK TO STOCK Or Midly Tuned You Guys Only Read What You Want.... How About A Highly Tuned Jeep Vs. A Highly Tuned 335i? I Think This Video Speaks For Itself...
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      04-06-2007, 07:23 PM   #39
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It's hard to say exactly how many car lengths. But if you calculate the loss in power at 4000 ft. I put down about 365 crank hp at 5k feet.

Just look at the power to weight ratio.

335i/Procede=9.79 lbs per 1 hp.

Jeep srt8@4000 (estimate just 8% loss)=391 hp and 4800 lbs=12.27 lbs per 1hp

Whadaya think would happen? It's not like my car shifts slower or something

It wasn't even close.

FWIW, I've beat my buddies 300c srt8 at 4k feet, every time, by a significant margin, I think they weight about 4150lbs.

Once again, look at the 300c srt8's power/weight 8% loss due to altitude.

10.61 lbs per 1 hp.


These number's I've mentioned doesn't take into account that I put down about 420 lb ft torque at the crank.

If you looked at the torque/weight ratio, I would be way, way ahead.

There have been many tests at higher elevations on na vs fi. Just do a google search. I've seen two tests comparing sea level to 6k feet with the na cars losing 14-20% of their sea level dyno power at 6k feet in colorado. Whereas the FI cars lose 2-4%.

Now a good race would be at procede 335i vs 300c srt8 at sea level.
A normally aspirated car does not lose 8% of its power at 5,000 feet! At 4,500 feet the air pressure is 12.5 PSI versus 14.7 PSI at sea level. 12.5/14.7 = -14.96%. So at 5,000 feet the car is losing over 15% of its power. There is no way for a normally aspirated engine to get this power back. 15% less air pressure equals 15% less power. The 335i turbos add additional boost to compensate, hence the very little power loss at altitude for a turbo car such as the 335i (not all turbo cars compensate as well).
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      04-06-2007, 07:24 PM   #40
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Notice How I Said STOCK TO STOCK Or Midly Tuned You Guys Only Read What You Want.... How About A Highly Tuned Jeep Vs. A Highly Tuned 335i? I Think This Video Speaks For Itself...
Notice your on the wrong thread then, my first post says "my car is proceded FYI". I won't comment on what would happen if I was stock, because that's not how I've run the jeep or the 300c srt8's.
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      04-06-2007, 07:47 PM   #41
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While I agree that an Chrysler SRT-8 vs. a stock 335i would be close, the funny thing is that you'd never know if the next 335i you challenge will be PROcede-equipped or not.

Only when you get walked away by a 335i will you know! And, please don't say that this will never happen, b/c I know from first-hand experience that it absolutely can time and time again (as a guy in a brand new 300C SRT-8 tried over and over again for ~ 15 min. to just keep up with me and he could not...and believe me, he was trying ). I think he was totally stumped and pissed that he could not beat a little Bimmer 3-series...he wouldn't even give me a respectful thumbsup when we both exited the hwy. at the same exit.

While I agree your car is crazy fast, I think its weight and its less than ideal aerodynamics hamper its abilities at higher speeds.
What sort of times are proceeded 335s laying down? 13.0s? 12.9s? If thats all thats done to it I highly doubt it would walk away over a 1/4 mile from even a stock GC SRT8. Win maybe but not walk away. A modded GC SRT8? Headers/Catback/CAI is a 12.5 capable setup on our rigs.
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      04-06-2007, 07:48 PM   #42
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I'd race ya! But my 335i has not arrived yet
PM me when you've broken it in and want to run. I may be slightly modded by then though.
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      04-06-2007, 07:57 PM   #43
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ah here it goes. SRT people gotta bring it here to start stuff.
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      04-06-2007, 07:58 PM   #44
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You Guys Never Cease To Amaze Me. Line Up With Me Any STOCK 335i And I Will Beat It Even In The High End These Jeeps Do Speeds In Excess Of 165 Mph(I Have A Picture To Prove It. And I Am Sorry i Will Have To Call Bullshit To That One The 300SRT8 Pulls A C6 Corvette Anywhere Over 100Mph. Proceded Or Not No 335i Will WALK AWAY From Any Stock SRT8... Maybe It Will Beat It By A SLIGHT Margin But No More... Also The Fact That They Might Not Have Downshifted Plays A Crucial Role As Well the PCM's On The SRT8 Have Spots Where They Wont Downshift Unless AutoStick Is Used...
It's quite obvious that you LOVE your big Chrysler "gangsta-mobile" POS, but please, don't even begin to tell me b.s about my particular run in with your exact make and model car. I guess you don't know that a PROcede-equipped 335i has close to 400HP and more TQ than the 300C SRT-8, and the 335i weighs 560+lbs. less than your POS BOAT!!!! My car (when I had the XEDE; the PROcede is supposed to add a little more HP/TQ) dyno'd at 322WHP (~ 379BHP vs. 425BHP) and 378 lb.-ft. RWTQ (~ 445 lb.-ft. TQ vs. 420 lb.-ft. TQ), and more significantly, weighs A LOT less. So, what do you think is going to happen? Duh...

These posts were from another thread on here when I chimed in (on my SRT-8 run in) on that thread...

"Speaking of a rolling start, let's just say that a Chrysler 300C SRT8 totally got walked today by an XEDE-equipped 335i! :rocks: The SRT8 guy didn't exactly look happy, after his 425HP/420 lb.-ft. TQ 6.1L Hemi V8 couldn't keep up with the little BMW 335i...he probably doesn't know the 335i is a FI twin turbo and he certainly didn't know that this little Bimmer has a little "something extra" under the hood. I thought those Hemi V8's (especially the SRT8) have a super powerful top end????

Nonetheless, it was funny to see how baffled and frustrated the SRT8 driver looked! He didn't even give a courtesy thumbsup when he exited...sore loser, I guess!"

"I understand your point about going to the track (not the "from a roll" thing), but FWIW -- the SRT8 guy didn't get caught off guard for the 20 min. "on/off" exercise of "spirited driving" today. I was just under the impression that the 300C SRT8 was crazy-nuts fast...and it is, but apparently, the XEDE-equipped (and PROcede-equipped) 335i is much faster; in fact, I actually think a stock 335i could hang in there or be slightly ahead of this car as well. I also think that many, if not most Chrysler 300C SRT8 drivers think they're hot sh!t; it's just good to know that they too can be knocked off their high horse by a few select cars, including the 335i, without too much effort."

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ight=300c+srt8

I admitted that the SRT-8 is "crazy fast", but sorry, dude, there ARE faster cars than your fugly gangsta tank with the wannabe Bently grill!
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