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      04-04-2007, 11:55 PM   #1
LEA69
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Arrow Money making Scheme? Or Added Safety?

Do you guys think this is a money making scheme or a good way to reduce road toll?

(From Herald Sun) POINT to POINT CAMERAS!

" The annual battle to cut the Easter road toll began this morning with the introduction of a battery of new high-tech speed cameras.

Point-to-point cameras, on the Hume Freeway between Melbourne's outskirts and Broadford, went into action at midnight, in time for the increased traffic flow. Drivers on the Western Ring Road should also beware of new parabolic cameras, which simultaneously cover all lanes.

The point-to-point cameras enable police to measure the time it takes motorists to travel between two points to calculate their average speed. The new method aims to catch drivers who slow down to avoid single, fixed-speed cameras.

But motorists will not be booked several times over the same stretch of road.

Five cameras will monitor a stretch of the Hume Freeway between the Western Ring Road to about 80 kilometres outside Melbourne. Large flashing signs will mark all cameras. "
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      04-06-2007, 04:26 AM   #2
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the easter road carnage has already taken it's toll on a poor little boy in sydney, so normally i would say it's a money making scheme, but i'm not so sure anymore, people really need to slow down and take it easy, not just on the long weekends... people going to parties and the like, then thinking it is fine to drive after a few drinks too many, or speeding to get somewhere cos they are a few mins late...

i'm starting to think these cameras a good idea... if you aren't doing anything wrong, you shouldn't have any reason to fear a fine... it's the one's who are grumbling about it that are worried about them, so maybee they should slow down a bit, think of that poor young boy that died today
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      04-06-2007, 05:50 AM   #3
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Nothing gets my heckles up more than speed cameras. First they outsource the job to fine people via speed cameras to companies instead of the police. So, instead of getting caught by the cops and slowing down, you get a letter a month or more later. So in effect your driving behaviour is not changed at the time of detection.

Second, despite ADR's defining a 10% accuracy margin for car speedos, the victorian government legislated a 3km/h error only- regardless of speed, so that you could sneeze and be "speeding".

Third, there is a breach of the principle of the presumption of innocence. You get the fine and are considered guilty but have to pay for the photo and any supporting documentation if you decide to take it to court. The documentation provided is pathetically insufficient and still presumes the defendant to be guilty. It does not provide beyond a reasonable doubt that the equipment was set up or working correctly nor does it explain how the device works (eg to differentiate the speed between two cars in the same photo). I know because I tried it. But it just isn't worth my time to fully defend- I'm sure the govt depends on this because if we all took it to court, the system could not cope.

Lastly, there has been NO STUDY done anywhere in the world which can definitively link high speeds with the CAUSALITY (ie that the speed caused the crash) of an accident. Yes, speed does increase severity of accidents but the reality is that the appropriate speed should be related to the prevailing road conditions. The media, police and government constantly try to tell us that it's dangerous to speed- it's not. It's dangerous to travel at a speed which is excessive for the road conditions and the particular vehicle being driven (A truck vs. a car in the wet at 60km/h- which will take longer to stop? It's a no-brainer)

PS It is sad that the little boy died in Sydney, but what were the circumstances? Wasn't it a garbage truck? So was speed involved?

Speed cameras on straight flat roads are revenue raisers. Cops hidden behind bushes have discretion not to stop cars 3-5km over the limit but IMMEDIATELY stop the idiots who travel 20 or more km/h over the limit. So their behaviour is instantly changed- not just when the letter arrives in their mail box a month later.

Sorry for the long response but I am sick of all this non scientific and emotional argument which earns the Victorian Government over a quarter of a BILLION dollars a year which then goes into "consolidated revenue" and is then NOT spent on improving road safety.
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      04-06-2007, 06:52 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docbeemer View Post
PS It is sad that the little boy died in Sydney, but what were the circumstances? Wasn't it a garbage truck? So was speed involved?
it's still sad though who knows who it happened

it just touched a nerve with me seeing the careflight helicopter again

at the time when i said it, i was thinking of all the people speeding round on windsor rd, doing around 20 kms/h over the limit...

but i have to agree, speed cameras piss me off too :mad: good in teh new car though, cos all of them are marked on the nav and have an alarm when aproaching them

i have to admit, i have slowed down after i got a fine (mine was being cought by a patrol car)
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      04-07-2007, 02:06 AM   #5
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pity the bmw nav doesn't have the fixed camera warning- just another little peeve with the idrive nav system.

It is true- people do slow down after being physically stopped by the cops for speeding. Much more effective than hidden cameras.
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      04-07-2007, 08:47 PM   #6
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with teh iDrive, can you set points and name them? with an alarm when you are aproaching?
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      04-07-2007, 09:37 PM   #7
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it seems that due to all the recent speed cameras being put in melb, people are driving slower on normal roads. But a survey has shown that more people are unaware while driving as they are seen to drift into different lanes and a higher use of handheld devices such as mobile phones and maps as the speed seems ridiculously safe
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      04-08-2007, 06:48 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astra View Post
with teh iDrive, can you set points and name them? with an alarm when you are aproaching?
I'm not sure you can set points to alarm (anyone know something I don't) but with the places I drive regularly, I know all the cameras so I make sure I don't get flashed there. It's the places I don't drive often where I don't know camera placements, that I want to be alerted. And you can't upload idrive with "points of interest" so that they alarm. Pity.

As for mobile phone use, my car is great. I now use voice control. I press the voice control button, wait for the beep, say "call (whoever's name i want in my phone book)", the car repeats "do you want to call ...(repeats the name)", wait for the beep, i say "yes", then it calls the number- all without taking my eyes off the road. Very safe and convenient.
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      04-08-2007, 06:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephanite View Post
it seems that due to all the recent speed cameras being put in melb, people are driving slower on normal roads. But a survey has shown that more people are unaware while driving as they are seen to drift into different lanes and a higher use of handheld devices such as mobile phones and maps as the speed seems ridiculously safe
False sense of security...

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Originally Posted by docbeemer View Post
...but with the places I drive regularly, I know all the cameras so I make sure I don't get flashed there. It's the places I don't drive often where I don't know camera placements, that I want to be alerted...
Haha i thought that till I went flying past a camera one time, I must have just been in a trance or something, cos I wasn't thinking Strange, I got lucky, and the camera didn't get me! This was the one on James Ruse Drive (If anyone knows it..)
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      04-09-2007, 09:32 AM   #10
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^Touch wood, I haven't had a speeding fine in over 4 years.
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      04-09-2007, 04:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astra View Post
Haha i thought that till I went flying past a camera one time, I must have just been in a trance or something, cos I wasn't thinking Strange, I got lucky, and the camera didn't get me! This was the one on James Ruse Drive (If anyone knows it..)
I thought everyone knew where that one was

List of all the fixed cameras in NSW
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      04-09-2007, 08:25 PM   #12
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My NavMan chimes 500m from a fixed camera. I download (off the net) all the points of the speed cameras and the Navman tells me before I approach each camera. Great thing.... but wont tell me radar obviously but not hard to spot a newish car sitting 'suss' by the side of the road!
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      04-10-2007, 09:43 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1q2w3e4r View Post
I thought everyone knew where that one was

List of all the fixed cameras in NSW
i never said i didn't? i just said i forgot about it
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      04-10-2007, 11:42 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEA69 View Post
My NavMan chimes 500m from a fixed camera. I download (off the net) all the points of the speed cameras and the Navman tells me before I approach each camera. Great thing.... but wont tell me radar obviously but not hard to spot a newish car sitting 'suss' by the side of the road!
That's excellent. The sort of thing that bmw nav should have (downloadable nav points and alerts for them. Can you set the alert distance (say 100m) or is it fixed at 500m? Shorter distances would be better where there are many "points of interest" such as the CBD ;-)
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      04-11-2007, 12:43 AM   #15
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i set distance from 50m to 2km away from camera... but youll forget its in front of you at this distance! ha!
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      04-11-2007, 05:10 AM   #16
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TOTAL 100% UTTER B**LSHIT!
The only reason the Victorian Labor government didn't have a budget defecit was because they increased speed camera revenue by $600million once they got into power....
Now i wonder why i am a cynic!
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      04-11-2007, 08:40 AM   #17
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TOTAL 100% UTTER B**LSHIT!
The only reason the Victorian Labor government didn't have a budget defecit was because they increased speed camera revenue by $600million once they got into power....
Now i wonder why i am a cynic!

And so now you live in Sydney! But you can't speed there coz there's too many cars, and narrow crap roads (I'm not trying to bag Sydney, but it is true!)
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      04-11-2007, 06:41 PM   #18
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^^ that's why i love driving in teh city, because there are dumb drivers that leave gaps that i can easily fit through, so you can make up alot of time even though our roads suck, lol
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      04-12-2007, 03:38 AM   #19
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We have our fair share of dumb drivers too (anyone notice how the "slow lane" is usually the fastest) as well as aggressive ones who speed up NOT to let you in esp during peak hour traffic.
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      04-12-2007, 05:10 AM   #20
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And so now you live in Sydney! But you can't speed there coz there's too many cars, and narrow crap roads (I'm not trying to bag Sydney, but it is true!)
Lol, no your spot on!
I used to bag melbournes roads & traffic....
NEVER AGAIN!
MELBOURNE HAS AMAZINGLY GOOD ROADS, 4 LANE FREEWAYS INTO THE CITY, YES INTO THE CITY!
Sydney's roads are rooted, clear and simple. No debate.
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      04-12-2007, 08:18 PM   #21
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We've had these cameras in the UK for a while now and they have caused a few issues over there...Jeremy Clarksons suggestion is to go past one, pull over for a coffee, then you can do 200+ for the rest of the way without having to worry :-)
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      04-13-2007, 08:56 PM   #22
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We've had these cameras in the UK for a while now and they have caused a few issues over there...Jeremy Clarksons suggestion is to go past one, pull over for a coffee, then you can do 200+ for the rest of the way without having to worry :-)
Yeah if it worked that'd be great, but i have a suspicion that these cameras in aus would also measure your speed at each point as well. Increases their profitability, which is what the govt is all about.
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