E90Post
 


MINHS Auto Care Center
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Procede / Mr.5 Intake / Stock Dyno comparison



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-26-2011, 04:11 AM   #1
bahn stormer
Taking the dog out for some exercise.
bahn stormer's Avatar
United_States
6
Rep
527
Posts

 
Drives: 07 E90 335i 6MT, 65 MGB
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: PA/Mexico

iTrader: (3)

Procede / Mr.5 Intake / Stock Dyno comparison

GOAL:
Comparison of Procede V5, Mr.5 Intake, and stock Dynos by testing all in one session.

METHODOLOGY:
Car was tested with no power mods except Procede and Mr. 5 Intake first to ensure Procede had fully Autotuned and adapted. (over previous several days). Mr. 5 Intake Airbox was then removed and replaced with OEM Airbox for second run. The hose and cone filter were left in the fender well to save time, but not connected. I could have just plugged the Airbox hole but I wanted a true OEM comparison. The same configuration was repeated on third run for repeatability and to allow Procede to adapt. Procede was fully removed for last run since DME requires little to no adaptation. I could have run map 0 but I wanted a true OEM comparison.

CONDITIONS:
07 E90 6MT N54
Hood open, 2 fans aimed at bumper
Procede V5 12-17 map, public release with Autotuning fully enabled
Map 1, all settings default
Autotuning had automatically raised boost to approximately 15 psig prior to test.
93 Octane, 10% Ethanol pump gas
Approximately 80F ambient temp (forgot to get exact temp)
All runs completed in a one hour period.
20 minute cooldown after run 1 and 3. <5 minute cooldown after run 2.
Dynapack Dynamometer
Testing near sea level
AFR measured at exhaust tip
Manifold Air Pressure measured at vacuum line between intake manifold and DVs.
Dyno termination RPM was changed from 7k rpm to 6.7k after run1.



Run 1 (RED):
Procede V5 12-17 map 1, default settings, Autotuning enabled
Mr. 5 Intake, 3 inch ID hose with K&N drop in filter and S&B cone filter

Run 2 (GREEN):
Procede V5 12-17 map 1, default settings, Autotuning enabled
100% OEM Airbox with OEM air filter

Run 3 (BLUE):
Same as run 2

Run 4 (MAGENTA):
Procede fully removed
100% OEM Airbox with OEM air filter
Car 100% stock with no power mods




CONCLUSION:
I am not surprised by the Procede gains. It clearly benefits from the intake. I am impressed by how smooth the HP and torque curves are on runs 1 and 3.

1. It looks like Procede was adapting to the intake change on run 2 by trying to find the new wastegate position for equivalent boost pressure.

2. Autotuning may have raised boost pressure slightly during run 1, causing pressure and subsequent torque to be slightly higher at the beginning of run 2, below 3600 rpm. This may have occurred due to the car sitting turned off with fans on the bumper while waiting for run 1.

3. Autotuning may have slightly lowered boost pressure during run 2 due to higher IAT from heat soak, resulting in lower starting boost pressure and subsequent torque in run 3.

4. A vulnerability to this test plan is heat soak (from previous run) induced Autotuning adjustment or the heat soak itself on run 3 could imply that a larger gain was achieved by Mr. 5 Intake and a smaller gain achieved by just the Procede as compared to stock. Because of this, when evaluating data keep in mind that the results from run 3 were affected by both Procede adaptation and heat soak due to the relatively short cooldown period between runs 2 and 3.

What’s next? I will now install my Helix IC since I finally got a baseline. Maybe I will perform a DCI / Mr.5 Intake comparison if someone will loan me a DCI.

Thanks to JE for allowing me to make changes under the hood between pulls, Mr. 5 for the intake idea, and Shiv for the great tune. I hope Shiv brings Autotuning to DIC logic soon.
Appreciate 0
      06-26-2011, 04:12 AM   #2
bahn stormer
Taking the dog out for some exercise.
bahn stormer's Avatar
United_States
6
Rep
527
Posts

 
Drives: 07 E90 335i 6MT, 65 MGB
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: PA/Mexico

iTrader: (3)

Pictures of my particular Mr. 5 Intake setup:



Modified Power Steering Reservoir bracket for gradual bend.





External flange (modified Spectre) with rubber gaskets.





Full 3" cone filter.



Coupling made from Real Estate Info tube!

Last edited by bahn stormer; 08-29-2011 at 03:38 PM.
Appreciate 0
      06-26-2011, 11:07 AM   #3
Joshboody
Lieutenant Colonel
25
Rep
1,708
Posts

 
Drives: pickemuptruck
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ

iTrader: (7)

wow, great results. You maybe the procede "hotrod". Your boost is very high for 80deg, probably closer to 90deg in the shop. Any chance you logged the runs?
Appreciate 0
      06-26-2011, 11:21 AM   #4
enrita
Major General
enrita's Avatar
Sweden
94
Rep
7,331
Posts

 
Drives: 335i - Big turbos
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Italian in Sweden

iTrader: (0)

Great review and good work on that intake!
__________________
07 335i AT - TD St.2 Turbos - COBB (Custom Cobb mapping by http://www.protuningfreaks.com/) - JB4G5 ISO - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - E85 Walbro - Injen Intake - Helix IC - Snow Stg. 3 - Stett CP - AR DPs - midpipes 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - Level 10 AT upgrade - Alpina AT Flash
Appreciate 0
      06-26-2011, 11:33 AM   #5
R1000K3
Major
R1000K3's Avatar
United_States
16
Rep
1,313
Posts

 
Drives: 335i MT
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Looking good, even the bolt heads are air flow friendly
Appreciate 0
      06-26-2011, 12:01 PM   #6
JB335
Banned
United_States
14
Rep
1,035
Posts

 
Drives: 335is
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: so cal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2011 BMW 335IS  [3.80]
Run 1 has a gorgeous power curve. Nice testing. Thanks
Appreciate 0
      06-26-2011, 02:36 PM   #7
bahn stormer
Taking the dog out for some exercise.
bahn stormer's Avatar
United_States
6
Rep
527
Posts

 
Drives: 07 E90 335i 6MT, 65 MGB
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: PA/Mexico

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshboody View Post
wow, great results. You maybe the procede "hotrod". Your boost is very high for 80deg, probably closer to 90deg in the shop. Any chance you logged the runs?
I thought so too. Boost Has consistently read just a little higher than most people report. I was Autotuning to 14.5 psig with the Procede alone. Must be the good gas here. Sadly no logs. I had a laptop hooked up but couldn't figure out how to set up the channels. The laptops are always being fought over in my household so I haven't spent the time datalogging that I would like to. Clearly I am at the point that I have to start doing that. Actually I could just do a couple road pulls and post them. I will do that and post before installing the IC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by enrita View Post
Great review and good work on that intake!
Thanks. I have a long way to go before I reach your level of performance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by R1000K3 View Post
Looking good, even the bolt heads are air flow friendly
Thanks. That was the idea behind the external flange connection. I have an extra lid now and I am wondering if shaving the underside fins would do anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB335 View Post
Run 1 has a gorgeous power curve. Nice testing. Thanks
Thanks.
Appreciate 0
      06-26-2011, 02:45 PM   #8
Syndicategt
Brigadier General
Syndicategt's Avatar
United_States
55
Rep
3,732
Posts

 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Nor Cal

iTrader: (11)

Good work man! Thanks for all the help on my custom intake, I just now installed it. You can see my DIY in that section (made sure to give you credit )
__________________
2008 BMW 335i e90 - Sold - Rob Beck Turbos / PROcede V5 / Aquamist HFS-4 / AR Downpipes / AE Exhaust / ER Comp FMIC / ER CP / TiAL BOV / Custom Intake / RPI Scoops / Quaife LSD / Swift-Koni Coilovers / DSS HS / Morr VS8.2 Sig Black / Michelin PSS / P3 Boost Guage / M3 body / M3 steering wheel / Adam's Rotors / Hawk HPS / SS lines /
Appreciate 0
      06-26-2011, 02:52 PM   #9
bahn stormer
Taking the dog out for some exercise.
bahn stormer's Avatar
United_States
6
Rep
527
Posts

 
Drives: 07 E90 335i 6MT, 65 MGB
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: PA/Mexico

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Syndicategt View Post
Good work man! Thanks for all the help on my custom intake, I just now installed it. You can see my DIY in that section (made sure to give you credit )
Thanks! Your intake looks great!
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2011, 07:52 AM   #10
sear
Lieutenant
United_States
6
Rep
462
Posts

 
Drives: 2007 335xi
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Colorado Springs

iTrader: (0)

Great work on the DIY and thanks for going to the trouble of running the dyno test. I'd be surprised if heat soak had a lot to do with your later runs since I assume it took more than a minute between runs to make the intake box changes. If so, your IC should have cooled down between runs.
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2011, 02:23 PM   #11
bahn stormer
Taking the dog out for some exercise.
bahn stormer's Avatar
United_States
6
Rep
527
Posts

 
Drives: 07 E90 335i 6MT, 65 MGB
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: PA/Mexico

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sear View Post
Great work on the DIY and thanks for going to the trouble of running the dyno test. I'd be surprised if heat soak had a lot to do with your later runs since I assume it took more than a minute between runs to make the intake box changes. If so, your IC should have cooled down between runs.
Thanks.

I did approximately 20 min cooldown after runs 1 and 3 but <5 min after run 2 since it was just a repeat. My point was that if people are looking at the difference between runs 1 and 3 to evaluate intake gains (since run 2 was adapting) then some heatsoak may have occured since run 3 was smoother but torque, HP, and boost are also slightly lower than run 2.

Clearly the intake has a 10 HP and 10 ft-lb torque gain, possibly up to 20 on some parts of the curves, by comparing runs 1 and 2. Unfortunately Procede was adapting on run 2.
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2011, 02:28 PM   #12
Syndicategt
Brigadier General
Syndicategt's Avatar
United_States
55
Rep
3,732
Posts

 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Nor Cal

iTrader: (11)

My butt dyno has noticed the gains. I was a long time DCI user who recently switched back to stock intake, turned out to be a great decision. I could feel the DCI's sucking in the super hot air and bogging me down, whereas the stock intake would pull consistantly, I did feel the restriction of the stock intake however.

This custom intake is the best of both worlds. Has the consistancy of the stock + the greater airflow of the DCI. I won't dyno mine against stock intake, but instead, I'll be dyno my intake with stock turbos vs the Rob Beck's where I really think it will shine with the cooler and greater volume of air.
__________________
2008 BMW 335i e90 - Sold - Rob Beck Turbos / PROcede V5 / Aquamist HFS-4 / AR Downpipes / AE Exhaust / ER Comp FMIC / ER CP / TiAL BOV / Custom Intake / RPI Scoops / Quaife LSD / Swift-Koni Coilovers / DSS HS / Morr VS8.2 Sig Black / Michelin PSS / P3 Boost Guage / M3 body / M3 steering wheel / Adam's Rotors / Hawk HPS / SS lines /
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2011, 02:47 PM   #13
bahn stormer
Taking the dog out for some exercise.
bahn stormer's Avatar
United_States
6
Rep
527
Posts

 
Drives: 07 E90 335i 6MT, 65 MGB
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: PA/Mexico

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Syndicategt View Post
My butt dyno has noticed the gains. I was a long time DCI user who recently switched back to stock intake, turned out to be a great decision. I could feel the DCI's sucking in the super hot air and bogging me down, whereas the stock intake would pull consistantly, I did feel the restriction of the stock intake however.

This custom intake is the best of both worlds. Has the consistancy of the stock + the greater airflow of the DCI. I won't dyno mine against stock intake, but instead, I'll be dyno my intake with stock turbos vs the Rob Beck's where I really think it will shine with the cooler and greater volume of air.
This intake should provide better throttle response than DCIs due to the large volume of unobstructed air available. I like the lack of DCI noise (sleeper effect) and the cleaner area under the hood also.

I need to get my IC installed (still in garage, seems like I am typing that a lot) and then DPs and Meth before moving on to RBs. I would like to take that route eventually.
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2011, 03:20 PM   #14
blacknbean
Major
11
Rep
1,027
Posts

 
Drives: e92 335i
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SF

iTrader: (2)

so who going to mass produce a lost cost version?! i dont need it to cost 1000+ and be made from CF like dinan. I bet a 3-400 option would sell like hotcakes!
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2011, 03:28 PM   #15
Syndicategt
Brigadier General
Syndicategt's Avatar
United_States
55
Rep
3,732
Posts

 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Nor Cal

iTrader: (11)

Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknbean View Post
so who going to mass produce a lost cost version?! i dont need it to cost 1000+ and be made from CF like dinan. I bet a 3-400 option would sell like hotcakes!
If I didn't work 60+ hours a week I could easily make a few kits like RB is doing with his turbos. Check out my DIY, this project can easily be done for very little $. After, doing this once, I could probably crank out a "kit" in under 2 hours. I beleive other companies had tried going this route but it wasn't profitable enough for them.
__________________
2008 BMW 335i e90 - Sold - Rob Beck Turbos / PROcede V5 / Aquamist HFS-4 / AR Downpipes / AE Exhaust / ER Comp FMIC / ER CP / TiAL BOV / Custom Intake / RPI Scoops / Quaife LSD / Swift-Koni Coilovers / DSS HS / Morr VS8.2 Sig Black / Michelin PSS / P3 Boost Guage / M3 body / M3 steering wheel / Adam's Rotors / Hawk HPS / SS lines /
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2011, 03:36 PM   #16
mithiral67
That guy
mithiral67's Avatar
68
Rep
5,724
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 Cayman GTS
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Chicago Burbs

iTrader: (4)

Garage List
Na, you could sell a cheap DYI kit that only includes the add on parts and you use ur stock eom box. Not sure how much the filter costs, but the other parts are maybe $20-$40? That plus the costs of the filer plus $20-$30 profit and it likely in the $150 range- $200 range.
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2011, 09:32 PM   #17
sear
Lieutenant
United_States
6
Rep
462
Posts

 
Drives: 2007 335xi
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Colorado Springs

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mithiral67 View Post
Na, you could sell a cheap DYI kit that only includes the add on parts and you use ur stock eom box. Not sure how much the filter costs, but the other parts are maybe $20-$40? That plus the costs of the filer plus $20-$30 profit and it likely in the $150 range- $200 range.
I found several sprectra filters with a 3" opening for <$25 and a few under $20
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2011, 09:38 PM   #18
mithiral67
That guy
mithiral67's Avatar
68
Rep
5,724
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 Cayman GTS
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Chicago Burbs

iTrader: (4)

Garage List
Yea, someone could make a nice cai kit for the oem box for cheap, slap $20-40 per labor hour on it and start selling.
Appreciate 0
      06-28-2011, 04:48 AM   #19
Zasquatch
Captain
Zasquatch's Avatar
United_States
11
Rep
622
Posts

 
Drives: '07 BMW 335i
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: CT

iTrader: (15)

Garage List
2007 BMW 335i  [0.00]
I wish I had my own lathe and I'd be all over this.... buy a big tube of aluminum and bang out the flanges ..... $60 aFe cone filter (I prefer quality), get bulk tubing at a discount, hose clamps, done..... Prob like $300 for the kit with quality 6061-T6 aluminum flanges.

If anyone wants to get me a $1300 lathe I'll do it lol.

Last edited by Zasquatch; 06-28-2011 at 06:50 AM. Reason: I will need a small plot of land and a shed with water and power hookups too :)
Appreciate 0
      06-28-2011, 02:28 PM   #20
bahn stormer
Taking the dog out for some exercise.
bahn stormer's Avatar
United_States
6
Rep
527
Posts

 
Drives: 07 E90 335i 6MT, 65 MGB
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: PA/Mexico

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zasquatch View Post
I wish I had my own lathe and I'd be all over this.... buy a big tube of aluminum and bang out the flanges ..... $60 aFe cone filter (I prefer quality), get bulk tubing at a discount, hose clamps, done..... Prob like $300 for the kit with quality 6061-T6 aluminum flanges.

If anyone wants to get me a $1300 lathe I'll do it lol.
Sell enough kits and you could pay for the lathe!
Nice job again on your machined flange and coupling.
I recommended a link to your post in Syndicategt's DIY.
Appreciate 0
      09-06-2011, 11:13 PM   #21
PlutoniumTans
Lieutenant
United_States
8
Rep
575
Posts

 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Brooklyn,NY

iTrader: (2)

There's no way to get the tube not ribbed ? some smooth kind of ? and where do you buy one like this in the 1st place ?
Appreciate 0
      09-06-2011, 11:20 PM   #22
tibra1
Banned
No_Country
75
Rep
6,775
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 ZCP M3 - 2007 335i crashd
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NYC

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlutoniumTans View Post
There's no way to get the tube not ribbed ? some smooth kind of ? and where do you buy one like this in the 1st place ?
Yes by the DINAN..
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:38 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST