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      06-28-2011, 10:45 AM   #1
rich1068
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Yet another insurance rant

You may have read that my vehicle was hit twice in one week. The first time the guy just gave me the cash and everything was fine. The second time the damage was worse and repairs were estimated at 1200. This obviously had to involve insurance.

What's left a nasty taste in my mouth is that even though I had a valid quotation from a reputable bodyshop (Sytner Sheffield) my insurance company (Aviva) wanted me to jump through hoops because I didn't want to use one of their authorised repairers. Most probably Stratstone in Chesterfield. A decent outfit I'm sure but a company I've had no dealings with in the past. Aviva weren't remotely interested in the quote I had in my hand and before any further discussion could take place an engineers visit had to be arranged and then the car booked in again for the work to be carried out if the engineer agreed with Sytner's assessment. In all likelihood I wouldn't have received a courtesy car either, again because I wasn't using an authorised repairer. From what I can gather I may have even needed to pay my excess and claim it back from the third party at a later date.

Now fair play, insurers have to be careful at taking repair estimates at face value but I think I'm right in saying Sytner Group aren't quite in the same league as some backstreet set up. And I should also point out that this is MY car and I like to have some say in where it gets repaired. I don't like to be dictated to and inconvenienced by my insurance company when dealing with a non-fault accident. I also don't like having my choice of repairer effectively vetoed because they haven't paid the pre-requisite back handers to the right insurance companies.

Which brings me to the second bit of unpleasantness. Instead of messing about with all the above Sytner gave me the option of using Sytner Drive. Basically a rebranded offering from HAS Accident Management Solutions Limited. As Sytner are in their scheme then the work is speedily authorised, arranged and carried out with the minimum of inconvenience to me. All costs are claimed back off the third party insurers without bothering me or my insurance company. More backhanders and inflated costs I think. For instance they guarantee you a vehicle of equal quality to your own and befitting your status as blah, blah, blah. Even though I said this wasn't necessary they supplied an E91 320d. Looking at the small print this has cost the third party 1116 plus VAT. The costs of this repair have just doubled.

And I should also add that even though I haven't involved Aviva apart from the initial notification I have now been contacted by Leggit and Scarper, Ambulance Chasers At Law, to see if I have any other losses or whether I have a stiff neck.

The whole insurance and repair business is a racket. It's all 'you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours'. Insurance companies should be brought to heel by the FSA and told to get their house in order. My 1200 claim will in all likehood be worth 3000+ by the time everyone has had their bit. The third party won't have his insurance rise by 3000 but it will go up a chunk and everyone else on this site will be paying the difference. And if you're not paying for that you're paying for the exaggerated rates charged by the bodyshops to the insurance companies to cover the cost of being on their approved list.

And that very nicely brings me round to the issue of uninsured drivers and the insurance companies constant bleating about having to pass the costs onto the honest driver of these menaces to society. After what I've experienced over the last week and previously, they've got a fucking nerve.

Rant over.
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      06-28-2011, 10:50 AM   #2
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I agree, it's so corrupt.
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      06-28-2011, 10:57 AM   #3
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The c*nts also sell on your details to personal injury claims companies, they get paid per fucking lead. Their excuse is "Well we have to cover some of the cost of claims"

WANKERS!
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      06-28-2011, 11:01 AM   #4
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Yes mate, you are 100% right and it's a shame that noone at the top would ever dream of doing a thing about it.

I've just had the missus in tears because she can't afford her renewal due to a crash last year. Can you believe that Hastings want to charge her 800+ for a 1.4 diesel Fiesta? She had a 2000 fault claim last year (no third party involved) and her premium has gone up by 90%. She has 9+ years protected no claims.

I've been saying for a few years now that it is beginning to be 'understandable' as to why 'some' people try to argue the toss when they drive without insurance. It's because they simply can't do it and you could be fined 10 times before it came close to the premium your insurance company wants to charge...

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      06-28-2011, 11:06 AM   #5
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+1 to everything you've said.

I am still getting calls about that car park ding I had in Apr-2010. A car park ding and I'm getting persona injury/other loss calls.

It's a load of fucking bollocks. All these no-win, no-fee wankers need to be shut down.

Also, now that you have a claim against your name (regardless of fault) you watch your premium come next renewal. I bet anything it will go up.

Regarding the repairs, are you not entitled to get the work done anywhere you want? Or are you saying that you are free to do that but you lose access to niceties like courtesy cars etc?
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      06-28-2011, 11:46 AM   #6
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So basically what your saying is if you try and do thing the right way (through your insurance company) you get screwed and cant get the work you want done from the place of your choice, but if you go through an accident management company, you can get what you want to your satisfaction?
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      06-28-2011, 12:02 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toxicnerve View Post
It's a load of fucking bollocks. All these no-win, no-fee wankers need to be shut down.
Bloody right. Boils my piss when I see that prick from The Bill (you know, the hard bloke who beats his missus and kids) come on the telly and advise me that the robbing twats he represents will get me One. Hundred. Percent. of what I'm "owed".

Bastards.
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      06-28-2011, 12:17 PM   #8
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I'm in exact same boat myself, and kicking myself for being so naive, but haven't posted as I didn't want to jeopardise anything. Might post later with more details but, to be honest, it boils my blood so much, I'm trying not to remind myself of it!
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      06-28-2011, 01:15 PM   #9
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It's normally the case if you don't use their repairers that they don't guarantee a hire car, pretty much standard.

I am sure you have all seen on the news that Jack Straw is trying to control the ambulance chasing no win no fee companies.

Daft thing is that the insurance pass on your details so you can make a bigger claim which in turn hits the insurance companies.

Nearly everyone in this world is on the take or looking to make money at any cost.
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      06-28-2011, 01:22 PM   #10
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Doesn't really hit the insurance company because they just put up premiums.
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      06-28-2011, 01:30 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLR1969 View Post
Daft thing is that the insurance pass on your details so you can make a bigger claim which in turn hits the insurance companies.
No, the insurance companies undoubtedly benefit from the arrangement.

I can't imagine any insurance company would pass on potential money making details without some form of remuneration, think of the poor shareholders!

The whole lot of them are in 'bed' together, the insurance companies, the accident management companies and the car hire companies, there all as corrupt as each other.

The only people who get 'hit' are the policy holders (US!) with the ever increasing premiums, a shite service, and a policy of 'wriggle' where ever possible in return.
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      06-28-2011, 01:55 PM   #12
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like i've always said...car insurance in this countryn is a fcukin joke!!!...along with all their stupid brokers, solicitors, accident claim management etc....

hope they all burn in hell....


and the pistonheads lot still thinks that its all good with their acturial statistics bullocks insurance pool theory thingy....

FCUK CAR INSURANCE!
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      06-28-2011, 02:41 PM   #13
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Are these public or private sector - these insurers?
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      06-28-2011, 05:15 PM   #14
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Quote:
Are these public or private sector - these insurers?
Not sure what you mean? They're the usual High Street names. Aviva, Admiral, whoever. Seeing as half the companies are owned by the other half it really doesn't make much difference who you go with.

Quote:
I've been saying for a few years now that it is beginning to be 'understandable' as to why 'some' people try to argue the toss when they drive without insurance. It's because they simply can't do it and you could be fined 10 times before it came close to the premium your insurance company wants to charge...
It's almost heresy to say it but I know exactly what you mean.

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So basically what your saying is if you try and do thing the right way (through your insurance company) you get screwed and cant get the work you want done from the place of your choice, but if you go through an accident management company, you can get what you want to your satisfaction?
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. But getting the work done to my satisfaction means rising premiums. Fuck it. It all means rising premiums because as I already mentioned, it's a racket. And as willhollin points out, it's corrupt.

The other thing is we seem to be mixing up the accident management companies and the claims chasers. Jack Straw should be applauded for bringing up the claims chasers but apart from a quick question about injury or losses that was it from Sytner Drive. They make their money from the inflated car hire charges, the third party and admin from Sytner. It was MY insurer who released MY details even though I've had no contact with them other than one call to notify them. And I only did that to cover my arse in case the guy who hit me wasn't insured or started arguing the toss. And yes, because of that my premium will no doubt rise. But hey, who stays with the same company year in year out? Not rewarding customer loyalty is another issue that gets on my tits. Ten points for anyone who can think of a reason why an insurance company with a duty to its shareholders and an eye on executive bonuses wouldn't want to reward loyal and safe drivers. Anyone?

A good friend of mine is an insurance broker. His solution to the ridiculous car hire charges? Offer 25 a day and a 1.0 Corsa. I know what I'd have gone with. 125 in my pocket and a car to laugh at. In fact make it 30 a day and keep the Corsa. I'd manage. If I get around to it I'll post the 'statement' that gets sent to the third party to justify the doubling of the quote with hire charges.

And as far as claims management is concerned I was slightly off when I mentioned Leggit and Scarper. We seem to think that this injury claim business operates at the more shady end of the insurance spectrum but it was in fact RAC Legal Services who contacted me. Not exactly the Ocean Finance of the legal world but a well respected brand in on the act just like everyone else.
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      06-28-2011, 05:32 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotcoupe View Post
No, the insurance companies undoubtedly benefit from the arrangement.

I can't imagine any insurance company would pass on potential money making details without some form of remuneration, think of the poor shareholders!

The whole lot of them are in 'bed' together, the insurance companies, the accident management companies and the car hire companies, there all as corrupt as each other.

The only people who get 'hit' are the policy holders (US!) with the ever increasing premiums, a shite service, and a policy of 'wriggle' where ever possible in return.
I understand that, my point was it's not sustainable, there will be a tipping point when it all begins to crumble.
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      06-28-2011, 06:40 PM   #16
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There isn't gonna be a solution anytime soon..knowing someone who actually runs one of these accident management firms, it is absolutely insanely stupid amount of money being made. 600 quid a referral,and thats before storage costs 130 quid a night and the mad hire car charges!yet insurers ring around these places with our details to sell. Sell hundred details for 3 1/2 k and whatever you make from those details is yours they say! A solicitor I know is processing 150 claims a month. You do the maths on how much he earns...
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      06-29-2011, 02:28 AM   #17
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I had a meeting with our insurance broker and insurance loss adjuster regarding an accident at work, like normal the discussion about how corrupt the the industry is.

I found out yesterday that insurance companies sell polices to no win no fee solicitors to cover them if they lose a case, the policy covers their clients fees so they get paid regardless!!

Liability is even worse as at the minute there is no legal fee cap like there is for motor claims.

One of our brokers other clients had a liability claim against them and the legal fees from the other side were 22,000 and guess what they settled on?....3,000 just shows that their legal fees bills are bollocks

The legal sector is making it worse they keep bringing the claims to the insurance companies which have to defend it even if it's bollocks, the no win no fee guys are scum of the earth
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      06-29-2011, 03:07 AM   #18
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The above policy you are referring to is called "after the event"insurance.
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      06-29-2011, 03:18 AM   #19
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What I can't understand is why the insurance company being claimed against doesn't kick-off at the claims management company and so, no, I'm not paying 1,000+ on a courtesy car (even a good one), I'll give you 500. No, I'm not paying that amount to repair a dent, scuff and buff-up, I'll pay you this...

All the bills submitted are grossly exaggerated and therefore no-ones going to be out of pocket but stops the claims management companies taking the piss.

I'm really tempted to ask the other insurer (in my case) why they don't do this and, in a way, whistle blow, BUT, I know full well it'll end up with honest me in the shit as opposed to the corrupt claims management company.

In my case, my original estimate of 850 (which I knocked down to more like 730), for a cash payment, has mysteriously increased to 2,600 now the insurers are involved. Odd.
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      06-30-2011, 04:56 AM   #20
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Rather topical...
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/au...508b48fd39855a
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      06-30-2011, 05:31 AM   #21
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Agree 100% with the OP.

The whole insurance industry especillay motor insurance is a scandal. They argue the reason that motor insurance is going up every year because of the 'win or lose no fee accident management companies' yet they are the ones who sell all this information to these companies and the drivers suffer the cost of this insurance hike.

FSA needs to look into this seriously otherwise I don't see how the motor insurance is gonna be affordable in coming years.
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      06-30-2011, 06:36 AM   #22
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I know of a bloke who was tempted by one of these "No win , no fee" deals. After a long fight he won his case (which was just) and got about 60k compensation. Unfortunately the No win, No Fee company charged him 100k for the pleasure so he was left 40k out of pocket.
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