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      12-24-2007, 07:32 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clairvoyant View Post
This is the dyno used by D&R auto far in Richmond, ON. They use Turner dynapack software, I still can't believe the figures here.
I guess the only way to tell is to run this thing in a closed motor sport training circuit.
I can not go hog wild on the highways specially when po-po/5-O are on which-hunts for speed demons.
By the way, BMW engines are solid diamonds, above 7000 rpm all day no problem if you read some of those endurance races in Europe.
The catch is you have to pour >93 octane
223 rwhp!

Thats a lot!

To be honest that sounds like flywheel horsepower to me.

Anyway you were looking for 218 so anyway your well off! Congrats! :-)

Last edited by dagjohnsen; 12-24-2007 at 08:40 AM.
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      12-24-2007, 11:57 AM   #90
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yeah, definately flywheel horsepower.

And there you have it my friends, I am right. A 2006 Canadian 323i has been converted to a European Spec 2006 325i.

And by the way, the dyno chart also proves that the Canadian 323i has the 3-stage intake manifold... you can distinctly see the points where the stages open. Looks like the first stage ends at 3100rpm, second state is 3100 - 4400 rpm, third stage is above. So do the doubters, that is dyno proof that the 323i has the 3-stage intake manifold.

Actually, more proof that this worked is that the engine revved past 6500rpm... stock 323i has the rev-limiter/fuel cut-off at 6500rpm.

Clairvoyant, what are all the other lines that I see on the plot there?

I am gonna try and do this in the first half of 2008 and I will do a BEFORE and AFTER dyno.

ANyone else want to give a go, I got the contact for you. PM me.

Last edited by epiphone3; 12-24-2007 at 12:07 PM. Reason: forgot to add some stuff
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      12-24-2007, 12:55 PM   #91
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2007 335i  [2.62]
Lightbulb 2006 325i now, supposedly

Other lines there were because they did a test run to get the proper grip on the tires. I was too cheap to run a separate dyno chart, therefore those lines overlapped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by epiphone3 View Post
yeah, definitely flywheel horsepower.

And there you have it my friends, I am right. A 2006 Canadian 323i has been converted to a European Spec 2006 325i.

And by the way, the dyno chart also proves that the Canadian 323i has the 3-stage intake manifold... you can distinctly see the points where the stages open. Looks like the first stage ends at 3100rpm, second state is 3100 - 4400 rpm, third stage is above. So do the doubters, that is dyno proof that the 323i has the 3-stage intake manifold.

Actually, more proof that this worked is that the engine revved past 6500rpm... stock 323i has the rev-limiter/fuel cut-off at 6500rpm.

Clairvoyant, what are all the other lines that I see on the plot there?

I am gonna try and do this in the first half of 2008 and I will do a BEFORE and AFTER dyno.

ANyone else want to give a go, I got the contact for you. PM me.
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      12-25-2007, 01:27 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clairvoyant View Post
Other lines there were because they did a test run to get the proper grip on the tires. I was too cheap to run a separate dyno chart, therefore those lines overlapped.
Cool, man. Thanks for doing a dyno and posting the charts on here!

Merry Christmas... happy holidays!
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      12-28-2007, 01:33 PM   #93
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I lied earlier. It got me 14 km/liter when I pumped 94 octane from Sonoco. On 91 octane, I get around 11.7 km/liter based on the dashboard reading.
By the way, is it just me or just my "325i" but I only feel the kicks above 4000 rpm? Is there any workaround for the low end rpm kicks?
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      12-28-2007, 01:46 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clairvoyant View Post
I lied earlier. It got me 14 km/liter when I pumped 94 octane from Sonoco. On 91 octane, I get around 11.7 km/liter based on the dashboard reading.
By the way, is it just me or just my "325i" but I only feel the kicks above 4000 rpm? Is there any workaround for the low end rpm kicks?
11.7 km/litre of 91 is damn good fuel economy... that is like 8.5 litres per 100km. I get 9.2-9.5 with my 323i in the city. You said that before the mod you were regularily getting 10 km/Litre right? Was that on Sunoco 94?

Question, did you do the dyno run on Sunoco 94??

The European 325i doesn't make much more peak torque than the Canadian 323i... only some. I expected the European software to really make a bigger difference above 4,000 rpm which sounds like it is the case here?

Another Question: How is the throttle response and engine driveability with the software?

I think the only way to drastically improve the lower end of the rpm range on the 2.5 litre motor would be to get Supersprint Headers or to delete the catalytic converters (or get higher flow ones) in the exhaust manifold.

Going with headers would surely throw Check Engine Lights unless there is software to compensate or if O2 simms are installed.

Getting higher flow exhaust manifold (that is to say, higher flow cats in there) would help low end grunt also and you wouldn't have to worry about Check Engine Lights, I wouldn't think. Turner Motorsports sells higher flow exhaust manifolds for the US 325i and I would imagine that those would fit a 323i.

So over all you like your "325i" then?
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      12-29-2007, 04:05 AM   #95
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Lightbulb Tried, tested, and true

It hit the 240 km/h marker. I tested this evening at the US 10th Mountain Division NY closed circuit training ground. Their CO were not happy when someone with the HSPD-12 secret clearance going hog wild on their training facilities specially when they found out I am a US citizen with an Ontario license plate. Too bad, their radar gun wasn't calibrated properly so I couldn't get an accurate reading. Well, no more mods on the bimmer until further notice. I am broke after nieces and nephews Christmas spending and the ECU flash; December expenditures are away out of control.

Quote:
Originally Posted by epiphone3 View Post
11.7 km/litre of 91 is damn good fuel economy... that is like 8.5 litres per 100km. I get 9.2-9.5 with my 323i in the city.
You said that before the mod you were regularily getting 10 km/Litre right?
YES
Was that on Sunoco 94?NO

Question, did you do the dyno run on Sunoco 94??NO

The European 325i doesn't make much more peak torque than the Canadian 323i... only some. I expected the European software to really make a bigger difference above 4,000 rpm which sounds like it is the case here?
YES
Another Question: How is the throttle response and engine driveability with the software?Life begins above 4000 rpm threshold

I think the only way to drastically improve the lower end of the rpm range on the 2.5 litre motor would be to get Supersprint Headers or to delete the catalytic converters (or get higher flow ones) in the exhaust manifold.

Going with headers would surely throw Check Engine Lights unless there is software to compensate or if O2 simms are installed.

Getting higher flow exhaust manifold (that is to say, higher flow cats in there) would help low end grunt also and you wouldn't have to worry about Check Engine Lights, I wouldn't think. Turner Motorsports sells higher flow exhaust manifolds for the US 325i and I would imagine that those would fit a 323i.

So over all you like your "325i" then?
Shipping ECU to the US: $190
Flashing ECU: $769
Shipping back ECU to Canada: $120
Removing ECU and installing them back: tears and sweats
Hassle with the US Customs: tears and sweats
Upgrading Canadian 323i to Euro/Mexican/Asian 325i: PRICELESS
For everything else, there is a mastercard, GST, and PST
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      12-29-2007, 11:28 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clairvoyant View Post
It hit the 240 km/h marker. I tested this evening at the US 10th Mountain Division NY closed circuit training ground. Their CO were not happy when someone with the HSPD-12 secret clearance going hog wild on their training facilities specially when they found out I am a US citizen with an Ontario license plate. Too bad, their radar gun wasn't calibrated properly so I couldn't get an accurate reading. Well, no more mods on the bimmer until further notice. I am broke after nieces and nephews Christmas spending and the ECU flash; December expenditures are away out of control.
Well, there you have it! The conversion appears to obviously have worked and the speed governer is gone for sure! Results are as I expected in terms of the performance. I am gonna do this in the new year!
1
Its been done! Now I hope all the people who called me crazy will give me the street-cred I deserve! hahaha

Just out of curiousity, Clairvoyant, did you happen to notice where the rev-limiter is on your car now???
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      12-29-2007, 11:57 AM   #97
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Cool Also curious

Where is it anyway? I am also curious

Quote:
Originally Posted by epiphone3 View Post
Well, there you have it! The conversion appears to obviously have worked and the speed governer is gone for sure! Results are as I expected in terms of the performance. I am gonna do this in the new year!
1
Its been done! Now I hope all the people who called me crazy will give me the street-cred I deserve! hahaha

Just out of curiousity, Clairvoyant, did you happen to notice where the rev-limiter is on your car now???
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      12-29-2007, 01:03 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by clairvoyant View Post
Where is it anyway? I am also curious
On the 323i, I believe that the fuel cut-off is at 6500rpm. When you hit this point, it should feel like the car all of a sudden stops accelerating.

I thought that the fuel cut-off on the euro 325i would be at 7,000 rpm but I could be wrong on that.
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      12-30-2007, 10:56 AM   #99
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Lightbulb No limit

Not in this car. I was on the 6th gear at somewhere close to 7000 rpm, it is still kicking 240ish km/h.
I could be wrong too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by epiphone3 View Post
On the 323i, I believe that the fuel cut-off is at 6500rpm. When you hit this point, it should feel like the car all of a sudden stops accelerating.
I thought that the fuel cut-off on the euro 325i would be at 7,000 rpm but I could be wrong on that.
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      12-30-2007, 10:57 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clairvoyant View Post
I lied earlier. It got me 14 km/liter when I pumped 94 octane from Sonoco. On 91 octane, I get around 11.7 km/liter based on the dashboard reading.
By the way, is it just me or just my "325i" but I only feel the kicks above 4000 rpm? Is there any workaround for the low end rpm kicks?

Thats the obvious weakness of the BMW straight sixes. If you ask me the engines really comes alive at 4500 rpm. The V-sixes from Audi and Mercedes has a better bottom end.


Thats also what I said early in this thread, the extra power will only appear very clear in the very top end of the register.


Its just how things are, you just have to enoy the smoothness of the engine and the power in the glorious high revs, and the wonderful soundstage
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      12-30-2007, 11:26 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clairvoyant View Post
Not in this car. I was on the 6th gear at somewhere close to 7000 rpm, it is still kicking 240ish km/h.
I could be wrong too.
Well, that is the final piece of evidence for me. If you were close to 7,000 rpm then that means that the new software has the fuel cut-off where it is on the Euro 325i.

I think we can call this a success!
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      12-30-2007, 12:49 PM   #102
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Congrats on the "free" hp. Must be a killer engine now. I have soft spot for lower displacement/high reving/high hp engines. The 2.5 must be very smooth.

With this revelation I now change my tune. The 323 is now a better deal than the 325/8 (Although I still like the Xenons). Again, nice work.
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      12-30-2007, 01:57 PM   #103
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The 2.5 is indeed a super smooth and free revving engine. I have been driving this car every day for the past week (it's normally my Wife's daily driver) and can't get over how enjoyable it is to snick through the gears. Great fuel economy also, we just got 35 mpg on a trip to the bro-in-laws farm. I don't recall the 3.0 litre engine being as smooth, but have only loaners and test drives to compare. Blows my mind that the 335 gets all the drooling and panting, when this car delivers such an engaging drive for about 60% of the cost, and is fast enough for our speed limited roads. This 2.5 engine would be great in a 2600 - 2700 lb. car, but methinks we'll never get such a chance if the 1 series coupe weight is any indicator.
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      12-30-2007, 07:01 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MINNOW View Post
The 2.5 is indeed a super smooth and free revving engine. I have been driving this car every day for the past week (it's normally my Wife's daily driver) and can't get over how enjoyable it is to snick through the gears. Great fuel economy also, we just got 35 mpg on a trip to the bro-in-laws farm. I don't recall the 3.0 litre engine being as smooth, but have only loaners and test drives to compare. Blows my mind that the 335 gets all the drooling and panting, when this car delivers such an engaging drive for about 60% of the cost, and is fast enough for our speed limited roads. This 2.5 engine would be great in a 2600 - 2700 lb. car, but methinks we'll never get such a chance if the 1 series coupe weight is any indicator.
It is for sure a phenominal machine and you are right, very engaging and fun to drive! I love mine!
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      12-31-2007, 09:05 AM   #105
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Question Free HP with a twist

I don't know about free HP but I will be very afraid opening my VISA bills for the next 4 months.
By the way, do they sell Xenon headlights or those angel eyes for 2006 323i?
If so, any website/link? (note to self: future upgrade 1 year down the road)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaws View Post
Congrats on the "free" hp. Must be a killer engine now. I have soft spot for lower displacement/high reving/high hp engines. The 2.5 must be very smooth.
With this revelation I now change my tune. The 323 is now a better deal than the 325/8 (Although I still like the Xenons). Again, nice work.
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      12-31-2007, 11:05 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clairvoyant View Post
I don't know about free HP but I will be very afraid opening my VISA bills for the next 4 months.
By the way, do they sell Xenon headlights or those angel eyes for 2006 323i?
If so, any website/link? (note to self: future upgrade 1 year down the road)
yeah... $1000 bucks for about 44hp gain is pretty worth it in my book!

As for the xenons with angel eyes, the best way to go about this is to get the European or US headlight assemblies... I believe it is fairly involved to get them to work without error codes though, as xenons draw less power than halogens.
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      12-31-2007, 12:19 PM   #107
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Cool Pass

Ouch.....more involved is bad.
It took me almost three hours to pull the ECU out and another three to put it back in.
I'll pass on Xenon. I'll keep it simple. Raw power 0-100 km/h in 7.4 s with 240 km/h maximum velocity.
By the way, will the European air filter helps with the low end rpm?
I've heard their cone shaped air filter will not pass the typical North American emission tests.


Quote:
Originally Posted by epiphone3 View Post
yeah... $1000 bucks for about 44hp gain is pretty worth it in my book!
As for the xenons with angel eyes, the best way to go about this is to get the European or US headlight assemblies... I believe it is fairly involved to get them to work without error codes though, as xenons draw less power than halogens.
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      12-31-2007, 12:51 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clairvoyant View Post
By the way, will the European air filter helps with the low end rpm?
I've heard their cone shaped air filter will not pass the typical North American emission tests.
Does the 323 have the charcoal filter in front of the standard air filter? NA spec cars have the filter, but Euro-spec ones do not. Lots of people have removed the filter (including myself). The only reason that it seems to be there is to stop the migration of any emissions back through the intake when the engine is stopped. Any way, if you do have the charcoal filter, I would remove it.
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      12-31-2007, 01:04 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaws View Post
Does the 323 have the charcoal filter in front of the standard air filter? NA spec cars have the filter, but Euro-spec ones do not. Lots of people have removed the filter (including myself). The only reason that it seems to be there is to stop the migration of any emissions back through the intake when the engine is stopped. Any way, if you do have the charcoal filter, I would remove it.
I have opened the airbox on my 323i and I don't remember seeing the charcoal filter in there that many 325i and 330i owners were removing. If it is not in there, it is likely due to the fact that the 323i was only intended for Canada and they therefore didn't have to worry about meeting the California thing for preventing vapours from escaping when the car is turned off.

But yeah, when I open up my air box again, if it is there I will definately remove it.
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      12-31-2007, 01:14 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clairvoyant View Post
Ouch.....more involved is bad.
It took me almost three hours to pull the ECU out and another three to put it back in.
I'll pass on Xenon. I'll keep it simple. Raw power 0-100 km/h in 7.4 s with 240 km/h maximum velocity.
By the way, will the European air filter helps with the low end rpm?
I've heard their cone shaped air filter will not pass the typical North American emission tests.
The high-flow version of the exhaust manifold (likely the one used on Euro 325i) that Turner Motorsports Sells should add some low end power.

BMW has a catalytic converter built into each exhaust manifold to have the catalyst close to the engine as it warms up faster and stays hotter and that is better for emissions.

It is amazing how much low-end torque that this design robs... typical results show that removing these catalysts completely adds like 10% horsepower and torque across the entire rev-band. So on our cars, rougly 18 ft-lbs extra torque. However, removing the catalyst completely will definatley throw a Check Engine Light... unless you get O2 sensor simulators to fool the ECU into not throwing a CEL.

An alternative to removing the catalyst completely is to get an exhaust manifold with high-flow version of the cats. This is what turner sells. And you'll notice the gains are less but you don't have to worry about pesky CELs. Their 325i converted to 330i makes 262hp rather than 255hp due to this change. It also makes more torque in the low RPMs according to magazine reviews than the stock 330i.

As for the Euro air filter, it may flow better but I would think that a better option would be to go for the GruppeM carbon fiber intake. It runs a K&N style filter which can be cleaned. Where would you get European spec air filters in Canada if you switched? A good bet is that BMW Performance Parts will likely release their high-flow air box and filter for the E90 in March.
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