E90Post
 


TireRack
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Off-Topic Discussions Board > Politics/Religion > Debt Limit



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-19-2011, 11:01 PM   #199
AngelinIsRich08
Banned
United_States
26
Rep
708
Posts

Drives: '11 X5M, '09 CTS
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: St. Louis, MO

iTrader: (0)

The democratic party died with Carter. I'm a huge John F. Kennedy fan and I suppose what he was back then is now the average republican.
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2011, 12:56 AM   #200
ghosthi32
Banned
25
Rep
2,510
Posts

Drives: Water camel
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: strait of hormuz

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelinIsRich08 View Post
The democratic party died with Carter. I'm a huge John F. Kennedy fan and I suppose what he was back then is now the average republican.
this guy makes me laugh.


i think everyone is forgetting the laffer curve when it comes to tax rates -____-

Last edited by ghosthi32; 07-20-2011 at 01:02 AM.
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2011, 09:22 AM   #201
xbook
Lieutenant Colonel
xbook's Avatar
Zimbabwe
47
Rep
1,538
Posts

Drives: '14 EBII M235i & '06 R53 GP
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Northridge, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E82  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelinIsRich08 View Post
And now the democratic party named themselves "progressive" which is a new term for socialist and the only way they know how to attack their enemies is buy pulling the race card.
How exactly is being progressive tantamount to socialism? Please explain your answer a little more. Your standard Fox News talking points are showing.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2011, 11:28 AM   #202
Turkeybaster115
Banned
35
Rep
1,543
Posts

Drives: 335I
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Illinois

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelinIsRich08 View Post
@ scotch: I lived in poverty the majority of my childhood so I know what being poor is. Do you think Obama's helped the poor and middle class? If so, how? I only see an increase in unemployment and middle class citizens working shorter hours. He's erasing the middle class which is the worst part.
How do you experience prosperity, in the middle of 2 wars? That's not just the arrogance, that took us into the wars talking, but the stupidity. Which empire or group in human history experienced prosperity right in the middle of a war? Especially during the age of human ethics, where you can't just rape and plunder (i.e: Just take the oil)? See, unlike, you, I don't dislike Obama because of his economic policies, or some other form of trickery the media, or "right" is trying to push. I dislike him, because, his is, and has always been an American Nationalist. In a age of so-called: "Globalization", that kind of 1940's Captain America attitude is not what we need, right now.

Last edited by Turkeybaster115; 07-20-2011 at 11:56 AM.
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2011, 11:36 AM   #203
11Series
.
6
Rep
666
Posts

Drives: BMW turned up to 11
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: These things go to eleven

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bird_Dr View Post
As is the democrat party:

"A tax cut means higher family income and higher business profits and a balanced federal budget. Every taxpayer and his family will have more money left over after taxes for a new car, a new home, new conveniences, education and investment. Every businessman can keep a higher percentage of his profits in his cash register or put it to work expanding or improving his business, and as the national income grows, the federal government will ultimately end up with more revenues."

– John F. Kennedy, Sept. 18, 1963, radio and television address to the nation on tax-reduction bill

So that means maybe we should cut our spending...


When JFK said that, we had a top tax rate of 91%, and the federal debt was DROPPING (indexed to GDP).

If JFK were elected in 2008, and dealing with top tax rates for hedge fund managers of just 15%, the top 400 tax payers only paying 16-17%, and the federal debt going up at a rate of 2.2 Trillion/per year (9/08 to 1/09) before he was even sworn in, there is no way he would be making that same speech.

It's all a matter of context and situation. This isn't 1963.
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2011, 11:44 AM   #204
Turkeybaster115
Banned
35
Rep
1,543
Posts

Drives: 335I
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Illinois

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelinIsRich08 View Post
And now the democratic party named themselves "progressive" which is a new term for socialist and the only way they know how to attack their enemies is buy pulling the race card.
I don't think you understand what the term "Progressive" would mean. Otherwise, you wouldn't hate it so much. You also SUPER-don't understand the word "Socialist", or "Socialism", or you wouldn't throw it out there that easily. Lastly, I thought the race card was pulled to prevent the "other side", from finishing off the country. Or at least, that was what we were supposed to perceive from that whole thing.
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2011, 11:52 AM   #205
Turkeybaster115
Banned
35
Rep
1,543
Posts

Drives: 335I
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Illinois

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bird_Dr View Post
I know people are quick to bash the horrible and evil corporations and the wealthy, but are never willing to address one of our other problems, laziness. Cruise a few corporate websites, there are plenty of jobs out there.
Laziness is a problem, but right now the biggest problem is the skills gap created by the recession. Ok, so you worked at the assembly lines in Detroit for 27 years, and now your looking for a job. You go online, and are bam several jobs popup on that corporate website, but your like: "what the heck is a software, quality control, analytical Engineer?".
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2011, 01:05 PM   #206
mact3333
Captain
mact3333's Avatar
43
Rep
783
Posts

Drives: 11' Audi S4
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Pacific NW

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 11Series View Post
When JFK said that, we had a top tax rate of 91%, and the federal debt was DROPPING (indexed to GDP).

If JFK were elected in 2008, and dealing with top tax rates for hedge fund managers of just 15%, the top 400 tax payers only paying 16-17%, and the federal debt going up at a rate of 2.2 Trillion/per year (9/08 to 1/09) before he was even sworn in, there is no way he would be making that same speech.

It's all a matter of context and situation. This isn't 1963.

Ohh...ok...yeah it was barely dropping if at all...look at the graph in big picture context...it was stable if anything...anytime debt is dropping or stable it "has" to be temporary or our fiat system would collapse unless we the public or the govt continually increased debt...that is how it works...when money is created from loans from money out of thin air as debt and when Fed Reserve creates it out of thin air, when you take into account interest, there will never be enough money to pay back these loans unless more debt is created.

So to speak of debt going down in any time in history is ludicrous really and lacks a real understand of how things work..

It really is a matter of context.
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2011, 01:42 PM   #207
11Series
.
6
Rep
666
Posts

Drives: BMW turned up to 11
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: These things go to eleven

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mact3333 View Post
Ohh...ok...yeah it was barely dropping if at all...look at the graph in big picture context...it was stable if anything...anytime debt is dropping or stable it "has" to be temporary or our fiat system would collapse unless we the public or the govt continually increased debt...that is how it works...when money is created from loans from money out of thin air as debt and when Fed Reserve creates it out of thin air, when you take into account interest, there will never be enough money to pay back these loans unless more debt is created.

So to speak of debt going down in any time in history is ludicrous really and lacks a real understand of how things work..

It really is a matter of context.

So you agree with my comment, except that you think the fall in debt (vs GDP) was too small, so you consider it flat. OK. Fair enough. My point is exactly as true with debt being flat. I will restate:


When JFK said that, we had a top tax rate of 91%, and the federal debt growth was FLAT (vs GDP).

If JFK were elected in 2008, and dealing with top tax rates for hedge fund managers of just 15%, the top 400 tax payers only paying 16-17%, and the federal debt going up at an annualized rate of 2.2 Trillion/per year (9/08 to 1/09) before he was even sworn in, there is no way he would be making that same speech.

It's all a matter of context and situation. This isn't 1963.
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2011, 02:40 PM   #208
AngelinIsRich08
Banned
United_States
26
Rep
708
Posts

Drives: '11 X5M, '09 CTS
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: St. Louis, MO

iTrader: (0)

Compare how many millionaires there were with a 91% income tax rate to today's 35%.
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2011, 04:48 PM   #209
xbook
Lieutenant Colonel
xbook's Avatar
Zimbabwe
47
Rep
1,538
Posts

Drives: '14 EBII M235i & '06 R53 GP
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Northridge, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E82  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelinIsRich08 View Post
Compare how many millionaires there were with a 91% income tax rate to today's 35%.
You still have yet to provide a good definition for how being progressive is the same as being a socialist.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2011, 08:37 PM   #210
ScotchAndCigar
Banned
ScotchAndCigar's Avatar
United_States
9
Rep
817
Posts

Drives: 2011 128i space gray vert
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: New England

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelinIsRich08 View Post
Compare how many millionaires there were with a 91% income tax rate to today's 35%.
Why?
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2011, 10:43 PM   #211
ghosthi32
Banned
25
Rep
2,510
Posts

Drives: Water camel
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: strait of hormuz

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelinIsRich08 View Post
Compare how many millionaires there were with a 91% income tax rate to today's 35%.
just stop posting...
Appreciate 0
      07-21-2011, 12:17 PM   #212
mact3333
Captain
mact3333's Avatar
43
Rep
783
Posts

Drives: 11' Audi S4
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Pacific NW

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghosthi32 View Post
just stop posting...
ghosti is quite divooneh today.......osgal nasho
Appreciate 0
      07-21-2011, 12:18 PM   #213
ghosthi32
Banned
25
Rep
2,510
Posts

Drives: Water camel
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: strait of hormuz

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mact3333 View Post
ghosti is quite divooneh today.......osgal nasho
boro bebin baba lol
Appreciate 0
      07-21-2011, 12:50 PM   #214
F32Fleet
BMWCCA since '03
F32Fleet's Avatar
United_States
103
Rep
5,530
Posts

Drives: 2015 435i
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Atlanta (Vinings)

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelinIsRich08 View Post
Compare how many millionaires there were with a 91% income tax rate to today's 35%.
Not many (<100). Adjusted for inflation you'd have to earn about 3 million a year in salary. Rich people earn little in salary compared to their total earnings so consequently they pay little income tax but instead pay a tremendous amount of capital gains taxes (current rate 15 percentIIRC)

Last edited by F32Fleet; 07-21-2011 at 01:14 PM.
Appreciate 0
      07-21-2011, 04:43 PM   #215
11Series
.
6
Rep
666
Posts

Drives: BMW turned up to 11
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: These things go to eleven

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mact3333 View Post
ghosti is quite divooneh today.......osgal nasho
fecalpheliacticstuphoria
Appreciate 0
      07-22-2011, 09:32 PM   #216
Echo M3
Major
No_Country
43
Rep
1,431
Posts

Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghosthi32 View Post
this guy makes me laugh.


i think everyone is forgetting the laffer curve when it comes to tax rates -____-
Thank you. Finally someone who understands basic economics
Appreciate 0
      07-22-2011, 09:44 PM   #217
Echo M3
Major
No_Country
43
Rep
1,431
Posts

Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mact3333 View Post
Ohh...ok...yeah it was barely dropping if at all...look at the graph in big picture context...it was stable if anything...anytime debt is dropping or stable it "has" to be temporary or our fiat system would collapse unless we the public or the govt continually increased debt...that is how it works...when money is created from loans from money out of thin air as debt and when Fed Reserve creates it out of thin air, when you take into account interest, there will never be enough money to pay back these loans unless more debt is created.

So to speak of debt going down in any time in history is ludicrous really and lacks a real understand of how things work..

It really is a matter of context.
This makes very little sense.

You don't seem to understand the concept of debt financing. The idea is that one takes out a loan, and then puts that money to work to gain returns in EXCESS of the interest owed. From a government perspective, this means stimulating the economy in such ways that tax revenues exceed expenditures (interest payments, among other things).

You are somewhat correct in stating how U.S. monetary policy has operated in recent years, however. The goal until now has been to borrow enough in order to pay off interest on previous loans. This to date has been feasible, as U.S. bonds carry extremely low interest rates. The real issue comes when financing has 'super-economic' motives, such as national defense or other areas whose economic value cannot be easily illustrated. Until the government breaks free of this pattern, however, we will forever be in a pattern of spiraling deficits and total debt.

P.S. - the Federal Reserve/ Treasury Dept. are NOT 'creating money out of nowhere'. That's called printing money. Go look and see what happened when they did that in Zimbabwe, or in Germany in the 1930's. You'll get inflation rates in the thousands of %, if not higher. That is NOT what is going on at the moment.

Debt financing (what the US government engages in) is a very different concept. You are relying on the multiplier effect of money: people deposit money in a bank, that money is loaned out to others (eg. the government), who then spend that money (such as on new roads), and the earners of that cash turn around and deposit or invest that money in another bank. In effect, you are MULTIPLYING the utility of existing money. It's a very powerful concept, and allows far greater access to capital (and hence increased economic activity). But it has to be used responsibly. There is nothing sinister or terrible about this - it is one of the fundamental pillars of capitalism.

You're welcome for the Econ 101 lesson
Appreciate 0
      07-23-2011, 12:32 AM   #218
Turkeybaster115
Banned
35
Rep
1,543
Posts

Drives: 335I
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Illinois

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pman10 View Post
P.S. - the Federal Reserve/ Treasury Dept. are NOT 'creating money out of nowhere'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantitative_easing
Appreciate 0
      07-23-2011, 01:30 AM   #219
ghosthi32
Banned
25
Rep
2,510
Posts

Drives: Water camel
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: strait of hormuz

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115 View Post
yay for wikipedia
Appreciate 0
      07-23-2011, 01:32 AM   #220
Echo M3
Major
No_Country
43
Rep
1,431
Posts

Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115 View Post
Quantitative easing is NOT what has brought about this debt crisis. In fact, it has nothing to do with the national debt.

It is a limited, short-term process that was used as a system of last resort, following the financial crisis, by the Federal Reserve.

If you look back in history, it was an unprecedented measure taken up by the Federal Reserve to increase confidence in the debt and securities market.

In my post that you quoted, I was referring to the historical role of the Fed and the Treasury, that has led to the current national debt. I was NOT referring to the last 3 years. But thanks anyways
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
angelinisagreedyracist, x5mguydontknowshit

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:44 AM.




e90post
e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST