[xbook]

Originally Posted by AngelinIsRich08

Obama's had over 800 days to create a budget yet has not done so. He could have easily passed one last year but no, he didn't, he "pussied out." Also, Obama has spent more money in his 3 years than Bush did in all his 8. He also made the US lose the Space race against Russia when he decided to shut down NASA, now it's the russians that will be building space weapons, this angers me a lot more than the fact that we won't meet little green men. Obama also managed to pass a multi-trillion dollar health reform bill that will bankrupt the states and the government. He passed it when the majority of Americans opposed it and in the midst of a horrible recession. Unemployment continues to rise as does our debt. This is Obama's economy so the blame bush card won't work anymore. He's spent trillions to help the economy and has failed. Sorry, Obama will go down as being the worst president in US history, bye-bye Jimmy Carter.

The GOP is so interested in the free market, this is a perfect time to test out their theory. Let's see how the private sector takes up the slack left behind by the lack of a Space Shuttle Program.

[AngelinIsRich08]

^^^ You're very wrong. Some things should be government operated. So you believe that the military should be privatized as well? Why'd Obama have to privatize the space program instead of say the post office? You don't believe our enemies can corrupt some of NASA's lead operators to make them spill any information about new weapons being created or manufactured? I'm just saying that Obama made us lose a 60 year old technological war. And not one person in Washington said something against this.

[mact3333]

you kids are silly...hating on Bush and Obama is ludicrous...dont ya get it?...they are all the same...has our national debt actually gone down other than a few brief moments???...you really think Obama is acting on his own?...he has a master like we all do...so did Bush...wake up people, those who control the money supply control our society...a lesson we will all learn soon enough.

The "issues" dont matter...people are spoon fed garbage we call the news, which is controlled by big media and fortune 500 co's...all major news co's owned by a company running a amusement park?...a airplane engine company?..hmm...85% of elections are won by the candidates who spend the most, which proves the issues dont matter...95% of americans didnt support the bailouts but it happened....majority didnt approve of Obamacare yet it happened...the politicians could give two sheets about you, now that is the cold hard truth.

Like all good crime mysteries, follow the money.

Obama has lied about dozens of things, but so did every president before him...so I dont him, I fault the system.

You want real growth and stability??

1. cut taxes for all...promote small businesses
2. reduce the size of govt
3. reduce welfare, people by nature wont be motivated when someone "provides" for you
4. seperate banks from investment houses
5. back the currency by a metal
6. give businesses incentive to invest in america instead of wiping out the middle class
7. go back to mark to mark accounting

75% of our GDP is based on consumer spending yet when we went started the recession, who got the 5 trillion?...banks(and foreign ones too) and insurance co's...why?...thye could have just given 18K to every american instead and I guarantee you this would have stimulated the economy...but we pick a way that "hopes" the trickle down will get to us by giving to banks who gambled away their equity by buying CDS's and mortgage backed securities?...and what did banks do with it, they tightened lending standards tighter than ever and gambled the money using their black box quant trading prog's...they also bought interest paying govt bonds as it was guaranteed money since they were getting this money for free(no interest) from the Fed reserve.

This is what the govt thinks us people...truth.

[driverman]

Originally Posted by AngelinIsRich08

Obama's had over 800 days to create a budget yet has not done so. He could have easily passed one last year but no, he didn't, he "pussied out." Also, Obama has spent more money in his 3 years than Bush did in all his 8. He also made the US lose the Space race against Russia when he decided to shut down NASA, now it's the russians that will be building space weapons, this angers me a lot more than the fact that we won't meet little green men. Obama also managed to pass a multi-trillion dollar health reform bill that will bankrupt the states and the government. He passed it when the majority of Americans opposed it and in the midst of a horrible recession. Unemployment continues to rise as does our debt. This is Obama's economy so the blame bush card won't work anymore. He's spent trillions to help the economy and has failed. Sorry, Obama will go down as being the worst president in US history, bye-bye Jimmy Carter.

Blaming everything on Obama is ridiculous for many reasons, including:
- It look a long time to get us into this mess. It's going to take a long time to get us out.
- The Republican leadership is more interested in defeating Obama than they are helping the middle class. See McConnell's latest remarks.
- The middle and lower classes don't understand that the nonsense the Republicans feed them hurts them and it helps the upper class.
- The Republican BS machine works better than the Democratic BS machine.
- Most people vote with their heart and wallet, not their brains. They can be manipulated by primitive emotional appeals and scare tactics.

Therefore, the biggest problem is that we have an uninterested, uninformed, uninvolved, unsophisticated electorate that is easily MANIPULATED by sophisticated ads that tug at their heart strings and scare them. The net result is that millions of middle class people vote against their interest. It's crazy.

[bolinp78]

Originally Posted by driverman

- It look a long time to get us into this mess. It's going to take a long time to get us out.

Stopped reading after this cliche.

[xbook]

Originally Posted by driverman

...
- The Republican leadership is more interested in defeating Obama than they are helping the middle class. See McConnell's latest remarks.
...

I agree, that was my point in the first post. As is so often the case, the Republicans are doing what they can to protect their party, and not do the right thing for the country. It's politics first with them, no matter what.

Their BS has already hurt us:

Moodys Reviewing US Bond Rating

[ScotchAndCigar]

Originally Posted by bolinp78

Stopped reading after this cliche.

Good to know. Thanks for the insightful contribution.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by AngelinIsRich08

I'm just saying that Obama made us lose a 60 year old technological war. And not one person in Washington said something against this.

I don't like playing the whole republican vs democrat thing because, that just means you haven't read the communist manifesto. However, FYI, Jorge bush, a republican president, six years ago, signed NASA's death sentence, and the use of russian space technology to get americans into space.

[E90SoFlo]

Why do democrats have a stick up the ass against the "higher class". We work our ass off to be this "high class".

[bolinp78]

Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar

Good to know. Thanks for the insightful contribution.

What, really, is there to say about that which hasn't already been said a thousand times?

I see no credibility in anyone that still believes that, thinks that it's really that simple, and uses it as an argument. Therefore, I did not see any point in reading the rest of what was said.

If I was new to the forum, clearly right wing, and the fist thing that I said was "Obama should not be President because he's not a citizen", what would you think?

[bolinp78]

Originally Posted by xbook

I agree, that was my point in the first post. As is so often the case, the Republicans are doing what they can to protect their party, and not do the right thing for the country. It's politics first with them, no matter what.

Their BS has already hurt us:

Moodys Reviewing US Bond Rating

When is it ever about anything but politics with any politician?

[11Series]

Originally Posted by xbook

I agree, that was my point in the first post. As is so often the case, the Republicans are doing what they can to protect their party, and not do the right thing for the country. It's politics first with them, no matter what.

Their BS has already hurt us:

Moodys Reviewing US Bond Rating

Talk about market uncertainty!! Any company who is looking to use their line of credit at a bank to expand would be crazy to do it now. There is absolutely NO way to predict how high interest rates will go if our Bond Rating were to tank for a day, a week, months, years.

The thing that most people don't understand is that Moodys and other rating companies don't have to wait until we've defaulted to downgrade our Bond Rating. We could end up with lower ratings, and/or fewer investors buying US Bonds even if we do have a last minute solution. And we don't get our bond rating raised back up automatically just because we finally get out of default. It can stay low for years, causing us to pay higher interest rates on the money we borrow.

These interest rates will have to be payed out for decades. Even if the Republicans eventually agree to Obama's proposal for 4 trillion dollars in spending cuts and cuts in tax loopholes, it could cost us MORE than 4 trillion over the following decades just to pay off the higher interest payments on our current debt!! We could end up having to collect MORE in tax dollars just to pay of the higher interest rates, than if we had just spent the 4 trillion dollars in the first place.

Thanks Republicans for screwing us straight into the ground by completely fabricating an artificial financial crisis!

[AngelinIsRich08]

Originally Posted by E90SoFlo

Why do democrats have a stick up the ass against the "higher class". We work our ass off to be this "high class".

No you don't, you cheat people and hire illegals. Duh. How else do you become rich? You're telling me you're smart or something and have worked 16 hours a day without sleep and peace of mind? Yea right. But in all seriousness, Obama has a thing against the wealthy and prosperous because he doesn't believe it's fair to be rich. He wants income distribution and the first way to do it is create universal healthcare which he already has.

[AngelinIsRich08]

Originally Posted by xbook

I agree, that was my point in the first post. As is so often the case, the Republicans are doing what they can to protect their party, and not do the right thing for the country. It's politics first with them, no matter what.

Their BS has already hurt us:

Moodys Reviewing US Bond Rating

The democratic party and the White House is only thinking about Obama's reelection!!!! Are you kidding me? They've been campaigning since January if your been listening to Obama's speeches.

[AngelinIsRich08]

A long time to get us out of this mess? Yea, it'll take even longer because of Obama and his increasingly continued spending. Explain to me how we will fix our debt if we continue spending like there's no tomorrow? The democrats want to spend more to lower the debt? WTF?!?! A lot of common sense is missing in their mind.

[AngelinIsRich08]

Republican BS works better than the Democrat BS? Excuse me, but who said we have to first pass the bill then read it?

[ghosthi32]

Originally Posted by AngelinIsRich08

A long time to get us out of this mess? Yea, it'll take even longer because of Obama and his increasingly continued spending. Explain to me how we will fix our debt if we continue spending like there's no tomorrow? The democrats want to spend more to lower the debt? WTF?!?! A lot of common sense is missing in their mind.

economics expert, you should work for the govt lol

[AngelinIsRich08]

^ You'd think you only need half a mind to know what needs to be done and what needs to be stopped.

[bolinp78]

Originally Posted by AngelinIsRich08

The democratic party and the White House is only thinking about Obama's reelection!!!! Are you kidding me? They've been campaigning since January if your been listening to Obama's speeches.

I thought about responding with this but it was just so plainly obvious that I did not.

[ScotchAndCigar]

Originally Posted by AngelinIsRich08

No you don't, you cheat people and hire illegals. Duh. How else do you become rich? You're telling me you're smart or something and have worked 16 hours a day without sleep and peace of mind? Yea right. But in all seriousness, Obama has a thing against the wealthy and prosperous because he doesn't believe it's fair to be rich. He wants income distribution and the first way to do it is create universal healthcare which he already has.

Keeping in mind this is a public forum, and you have the right to speak your mind, I'd like to point out (as it's apparently not obvious to you) that everything you say is 100% fueled by hate, rather than facts or reason, and it's not really productive to the conversation.

Obama has not expressed any of the thoughts, feelings, or qualities you claim. Please stop pretending to state things that "Obama thinks", when it's obvious that these are just things that YOU feel about him, democrats, or anyone who doesn't agree with your crazy ideas. And this includes your hatred for Michelle Obama, a non-politician who has no bearing in these discussions.

We've had a graduated income tax for decades, and for a good reason. At times, the upper rates have been higher than they are now, such as when Reagan was president. This is the way our country works - get over it and move on.

Our debt limit has been raised 100 times by every modern president, and now it needs to be raised again - get over it and move on.

Speaking of Reagan, the first 3 years of his presidency saw uninterrupted skyrocketing of unemployment during that period. We are doing better than that, and in addition, our recession ended in June 2009, and the stock market is up 100% (along with corporate health). So explain to me how our economic policy has "failed", other than to chalk it up to hate?

[11Series]

^^^^^^^^

[Tortfeasor 335xi]

Originally Posted by 11Series

If you think Obama doesn't have an energy policy, you are willfully blind. If you spent a whole 1.273 seconds on google you would understand why you are completely wrong.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/energy

His policy, as it is stated on that page is to develop green energy. That's nice, but accomplishes nothing. Its like saying your policy is to develop cold fusion and limitless energy. It has no basis in reality. Currently the national power grid is coal and nuclear. The EPA is doing its damnedest to make sure coal is prohibitively expensive while the technology currently does not exist that will meet the nation's energy needs through an alternative means. Hell we can't even agree on what to do with spent fuel rods. This isn't a real policy it hope and change substance-less bull shit.

Originally Posted by 11Series

Obama doesn't run the Fed Bank. It is a non-gov't entity that doesn't answer to the US President. It is owned by a group of major private regional banks.

Bernanke, its chairman is a presidential appointee. It was created by congress and its board of governors are presidential appointees. Its claim of independence is based on not needing congressional or presidential approval to take actions. However, it is still subject to congressional and presidential oversight, so lets not pretend its actually independent.

Originally Posted by 11Series

If Bush wanted to make his Tax cuts permanent, he should have done the required budget cuts to balance the lost revenue. Bush pvssied out by making them temporary so he didn't have to make the spending cuts, and he left the economic disaster that decision caused to future generations. Not sure how this is Obama's fault?

Bush made temporary tax cuts because congress wouldn't pass them without it. What is Obama's fault is his trying to let them expire and raise taxes during a recession. Part of the reason why the Great Depression lasted so long was that Congress passed a series of taxes and tariffs as soon as it looked like there was a recovery, and that caused the economy to double dip. Obama keeps trying to run headlong over the higher taxes cliff because he's either ignorant of history or too pigheadedly dogmatic in his leftist views to accept it.

Originally Posted by 11Series

If you are going to cry about "uncertainty", there is absolutely nothing causing more "uncertainty" than the Republicans trying to shut down the entire government every 3 months. Small business owners that run payroll on a revolving line of credit indexed to the gov't bond rates, will see interest rates explode if we default. This is REAL uncertainty. Same for each and every company that has a gov't contract who doesn't know if they will be paid next month. Same for every single social security recipient, and every single business that gets business from social security recipients. Etc, etc, the damages go on and on, and will put us right back into recession.

The level of "uncertainty" being caused by the Republican House is off the charts!

Small business lines of credit are based off of LIBOR or the London Interbank Offerred Rate. Government bonds are based on market economics in the periodic fed debt auctions. The interest rates that the Fed sets are the federal reserve interbank lending rates, or the rates at which banks chartered in the US can borrow money from the federal reserve. They have almost nothing to do with each other.

And lets not pretend that its the Republicans fault that we are at an impasse on debt talks. Republicans and Democrats were well on their way to a deal before El Heffe Obama stepped in, requiring tax increases. This mess is his fault. In fact, Republicans have offered him, on multiple occasions, short term debt limit increases so that they can hash out a proper bill, which Obama has declined to accept. He is the one screwing up our debt limit discussions, he is the one being intractable. All republicans said was that they wanted budget cuts to go along with a debt limit increase, and they suggested it when there was enough time to take care of things properly. Its been presidential intransigence since then that has screwed things up.