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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > ESS is considering making a SC kit for the N52!



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      02-19-2012, 11:03 AM   #265
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I am with a lot of the people above that say the 328 is their baby and do not want to trade it for a 335 but still want more power. So many people talk about how this or that is faster, but when it comes down to it, there is always something faster. It is about pure enjoyment, uniqueness, and passion for your car.

Gavin talked about how the weight savings in the 328 vs the 335 gives it an advantage. Losing weight in these cars would make a world of difference (weight reduction techniques for this chassis http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=627141). A SC coupled with supporting mods and weight reduction would make this car an amazing daily driver/weekend track car. I would definitely purchase a SC kit if it were available.
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      02-19-2012, 11:43 AM   #266
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I can't see the case for a supercharger. If you want a 3-series with forced induction, buy a 335. Period. It is proven, upgradeable and supported by the factory. Your "kit" was developed over years by BMW bringing all of their engineering resources to bear, not built in a warehouse using a single car as a testbed. Sure, it has some reliability issues when compared to a 330/328 but rest assured it will be vastly more reliable than an N52 with an aftermarket charger fitted to it. To top it all off, once you have succeeded in spending thousands and thousands of dollars to make your car now less reliable than a 335, it will still be slower than that same 335 with a simple chip upgrade. As for the lower weight of the naturally aspirated cars, I agree. It is one of the biggest upsides over the turbo cars. But you do realize that superchargers are heavy and the resulting car would likely weigh more than a 335?
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      02-19-2012, 12:55 PM   #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CombatNinja View Post
I can't see the case for a supercharger. If you want a 3-series with forced induction, buy a 335. Period. It is proven, upgradeable and supported by the factory. Your "kit" was developed over years by BMW bringing all of their engineering resources to bear, not built in a warehouse using a single car as a testbed. Sure, it has some reliability issues when compared to a 330/328 but rest assured it will be vastly more reliable than an N52 with an aftermarket charger fitted to it. To top it all off, once you have succeeded in spending thousands and thousands of dollars to make your car now less reliable than a 335, it will still be slower than that same 335 with a simple chip upgrade. As for the lower weight of the naturally aspirated cars, I agree. It is one of the biggest upsides over the turbo cars. But you do realize that superchargers are heavy and the resulting car would likely weigh more than a 335?
First, the whole point of this thread is that people do not want to trade in their cars. Nobody is disputing the fact that the 335 is an easily modifiable platform. The reason a lot of people are on this forum in the first place is they enjoy working on their cars, not just owning them. You can have a e9x 335 like tens of thousands of other people, or you could be one of the few to have a supercharged e9x 328 making good power and having a lot of fun doing it.

Second, a supercharger kit weighs ~50 lbs, so there would still be a significant weight savings over the 335, which again is irrelevant since that vehicle is not the focus of this thread.

Third, there is no significant evidence that a supercharger running low boost will impact reliability on this vehicle.
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      02-19-2012, 01:16 PM   #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CombatNinja View Post
I can't see the case for a supercharger. If you want a 3-series with forced induction, buy a 335. Period. It is proven, upgradeable and supported by the factory. Your "kit" was developed over years by BMW bringing all of their engineering resources to bear, not built in a warehouse using a single car as a testbed. Sure, it has some reliability issues when compared to a 330/328 but rest assured it will be vastly more reliable than an N52 with an aftermarket charger fitted to it. To top it all off, once you have succeeded in spending thousands and thousands of dollars to make your car now less reliable than a 335, it will still be slower than that same 335 with a simple chip upgrade. As for the lower weight of the naturally aspirated cars, I agree. It is one of the biggest upsides over the turbo cars. But you do realize that superchargers are heavy and the resulting car would likely weigh more than a 335?
As of right now, this thread is seven pages long. Do you have any idea of how many people chimed in with this exact information?

WE KNOW A TUNED 335 WILL BE FASTER AND POSSIBLY MORE RELIABLE!!!

Right now, my car weighs 200-250lbs less than a 335. I know for a fact that my car is just as quick as a stock 335. Again, a tuned 335 is just as quick as an M3 so forget about it. I do know that all of my friends with 335s have had issues with injectors, HPFP and codes popping up. I have had none of these issues.

Again, it would cost me about $15,000 for me to switch to a 335 at this point. If I can get a supercharger for about $5,000 it's a major savings for me and I can keep my car.
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      02-19-2012, 01:57 PM   #269
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I just understood something, car ehnthusiastics like spending money in mods. And they don't really give a XXXX if that is worth it or not. Thats the truth. I am a good example:
i got my 328 new and i have spent around 8k in mods in less than a year, and i am not satisfied yet with my car. Sure i could have traded in and get a 335 with more power, since the money i have spent is close to a 335. However, if i get a 335, the same routine would have happened. I would have spent money in suspensions, rims, intercooler, exhaust, chip etc etc......
In the end, the money spent plus the value of the 335 could have got me a m3.
Once again, if i get a m3, do you think i would be satisfied and i can hold myself not to mod the car? We all know the answer, car ehnthusiastics are born to mod cars. go look in the m3 forum and you will see. m3 owners spend quite some money in mods to. Some even put a SC in their m3.
So the pattern goes on, m3 owners can also get a better car and so do Lamborghini owners.

There is two type of persons:
1. car is just a tool that get them to work (home, school etc)
this kind of ppl would possibly be satisfied with a prius and they might think it's silly to spent 40k+ in a car

2. car is your piece of art and you won't stop modding it until it's "perfect"
This kind of ppl are just out of their mind ! lol

This should give an answer to the ppl that say "trade in for a 335"
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      02-19-2012, 02:36 PM   #270
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Okay, fine. Keep holding out for a supercharger kit for the N52. Plenty of people in this thread have tried to explain why it isn't going to happen. I was taking a different approach and giving reasons why you shouldn't even want it to happen. Either way, IT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN. If you're dumb enough to believe that a) fitting a supercharger to a 6 year-old German car with an alloy engine block and eleventy billion sensors that was never meant to be force fed won't "impact reliability" and/or b) one isn't a "car enthusist" unless they modify their vehicles then you are also probably dumb enough to buy a supercharger kit when it comes out. Which it won't.
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      02-19-2012, 03:05 PM   #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AW325xi View Post
As of right now, this thread is seven pages long. Do you have any idea of how many people chimed in with this exact information?

WE KNOW A TUNED 335 WILL BE FASTER AND POSSIBLY MORE RELIABLE!!!

Right now, my car weighs 200-250lbs less than a 335. I know for a fact that my car is just as quick as a stock 335. Again, a tuned 335 is just as quick as an M3 so forget about it. I do know that all of my friends with 335s have had issues with injectors, HPFP and codes popping up. I have had none of these issues.

Again, it would cost me about $15,000 for me to switch to a 335 at this point. If I can get a supercharger for about $5,000 it's a major savings for me and I can keep my car.
+1

The notion that the 335i is faster than a 328i is not even a concern for me. Truth is the 328 or any variation of the n52 is more reliable than the n54 on the track. What good is faster (presumably most noticeable in the straights) if you can't complete a session of hot laps without going in limp mode?

Don't get me wrong, I think the n54 is a great motor but for some of us, there's a reason we prefer the n52 over the n54 (or have yet to "upgrade" to the n54).
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      02-19-2012, 04:04 PM   #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CombatNinja View Post
Okay, fine. Keep holding out for a supercharger kit for the N52. Plenty of people in this thread have tried to explain why it isn't going to happen. I was taking a different approach and giving reasons why you shouldn't even want it to happen. Either way, IT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN. If you're dumb enough to believe that a) fitting a supercharger to a 6 year-old German car with an alloy engine block and eleventy billion sensors that was never meant to be force fed won't "impact reliability" and/or b) one isn't a "car enthusist" unless they modify their vehicles then you are also probably dumb enough to buy a supercharger kit when it comes out. Which it won't.
"it" has already happened with the ARMA kit. Never say never. I don't think anyone can say for certain that another SC kit won't be built.
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      02-19-2012, 06:11 PM   #273
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Am I missing something here? Why is everyone's panties in a bunch about this? If someone makes a good, reliable SC for the N52, great! If not, of well... we'll move on.

My 330i is plenty fast for me, and I have yet to max out its potential on a track. An SC would be icing on the cake, but if it doesn't happen it's not going to be the end of the world for me, nor will I "upgrade" to a 335i. Just my 2 cents.
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      02-19-2012, 06:49 PM   #274
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First off, I have a lot of track time in a variety of machines. It is not all about total horsepower for straight line driving, that is why a 215hp E36 M3 can still mop the floor of a Z06 corvette.

I am one of those #2 car people. Once I find a chassis I like, I am willing to throw tons of cash at it to make it mine.

I would like to see an affordable N52 sc kit come out, so I can track its success and decide on buying it when my warranty goes out. In the mean time, I will just laugh at all you N54 owners trying to convince us that your turbo makes you better.
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      02-19-2012, 10:09 PM   #275
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Since when did e36 M3s have 215bhp? They had 240 in the U.S. Oh, and given equal drivers no streetable e36 has any hope of keeping up with a z06 Corvette. Sorry please try again.
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      02-20-2012, 06:24 AM   #276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rorkor
First off, I have a lot of track time in a variety of machines. It is not all about total horsepower for straight line driving, that is why a 215hp E36 M3 can still mop the floor of a Z06 corvette.

I am one of those #2 car people. Once I find a chassis I like, I am willing to throw tons of cash at it to make it mine.

I would like to see an affordable N52 sc kit come out, so I can track its success and decide on buying it when my warranty goes out. In the mean time, I will just laugh at all you N54 owners trying to convince us that your turbo makes you better.
Turbos*

Hehe

You guys are kinda like the v6 fbody crowd in a sea of v8s.

Whatever floats your boat. I'd like to see a fast n52
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      02-20-2012, 08:43 AM   #277
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I think as the e90 gets older, and attracts those that can now afford one, and like to mod, the demand will rise for products like this. But seeing as how the car is still out of reach for most of the younger crowd, demand is not there. (demand at a level to make it worth it to a manufacturer.) Look at the e36, anyone can buy one and still have money left over to mod.
That being said, I would be interested.
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      02-20-2012, 08:46 AM   #278
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yeah, that's true. But, as you said, I would also buy one right now if the price was $5k max and was engineered by a reliable company that stands by its products.
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      02-20-2012, 08:58 AM   #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewy734 View Post
Am I missing something here? Why is everyone's panties in a bunch about this? If someone makes a good, reliable SC for the N52, great! If not, of well... we'll move on.

My 330i is plenty fast for me, and I have yet to max out its potential on a track. An SC would be icing on the cake, but if it doesn't happen it's not going to be the end of the world for me, nor will I "upgrade" to a 335i. Just my 2 cents.
While I absolutely LOVE my 325i, why do you say "upgrade"? Do you really not view the 335 as an upgrade? In what way is it a downgrade at all? Don't get me wrong I'm keeping my 325i and love the car, but if I could trade it for a 335 for free I certainly would. The fact that it is better is unquestionable to me, but I simply think that the better buy for dollar to car ratio is the NA BMW we have. Just curious. Other than that I agree. It's not like I bought this car to supercharge it.
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      02-20-2012, 09:20 AM   #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkrom View Post
While I absolutely LOVE my 325i, why do you say "upgrade"? Do you really not view the 335 as an upgrade? In what way is it a downgrade at all? Don't get me wrong I'm keeping my 325i and love the car, but if I could trade it for a 335 for free I certainly would. The fact that it is better is unquestionable to me, but I simply think that the better buy for dollar to car ratio is the NA BMW we have. Just curious. Other than that I agree. It's not like I bought this car to supercharge it.
I say "upgrade" because the interior is not necessarily an upgrade, the cornering, weight-balance, fuel economy, trunk space, passenger space, etc are not upgrades. What you're getting is a more powerful engine. Yes, the engine is an upgrade in terms of performance, but at a price of overall reliability, imo.

The N52 is a great engine, won many awards, and has been the powerplant for a wide range of Bimmers over the years. The N54 is an amazing engine as well, but some of the components associated with it (namely the HPFP) are issues. I have a friend who has had their HPFP replaced twice, another friend who had their HPFP fail within 500 miles of buying the car, etc. If you ask any SA at your local dealership, they have seen more issues with the 335 than a 325/328/330. And that's saying something, because I guarantee you that there are far more 325/328/330s on the road than the 335s. My only issues so far with my car (knock on wood) have been a failed spark plug and sticky door handles. That's not bad for a BMW (a luxury brand notorious for being pricey to maintain out of warranty).

Will adding an SC change that reliability? Maybe, maybe not... only time will tell, and any statement made either way is just an assumption. I also bought my car without the intent to supercharge it; I'm happy the way it is. However, the possibilities of a SC are still appealing to me... why wouldn't it be? But, I cannot buy a SC kit blindly as I need a fun, reliable, daily-driver. But, given the chance to upgrade to a well-designed SC, I would do it.
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      02-21-2012, 11:31 AM   #281
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There is a pretty good article in Performance BMW this month about an e92 M3 build and the weight reduction that shed 330 kg from the car. That would definitely improve the performance of the n52 cars.
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      07-17-2012, 07:24 PM   #282
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i might get this exact thing done with my 328xi
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      07-17-2012, 07:38 PM   #283
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Well its been a year and 5 days. I think we got our answer from this shop. Oh well, their loss.
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      07-18-2012, 10:07 AM   #284
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Well its been a year and 5 days. I think we got our answer from this shop. Oh well, their loss.
doubt it's their loss. business probably didn't justify it
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      07-19-2012, 04:53 PM   #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CombatNinja
Okay, fine. Keep holding out for a supercharger kit for the N52. Plenty of people in this thread have tried to explain why it isn't going to happen. I was taking a different approach and giving reasons why you shouldn't even want it to happen. Either way, IT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN. If you're dumb enough to believe that a) fitting a supercharger to a 6 year-old German car with an alloy engine block and eleventy billion sensors that was never meant to be force fed won't "impact reliability" and/or b) one isn't a "car enthusist" unless they modify their vehicles then you are also probably dumb enough to buy a supercharger kit when it comes out. Which it won't.
My opinion on this, is when you can PROVE that the n52 can't perform under forced induction (an looking at arma, you're already somewhat wrong, it's just their build quality is 2/10 lol) then you're able to comment on the matter

Untill then, keep unsubstantiated opinions out of it? You're (and many people in this thread) getting facts about the engines design and construction a bit.. Off :/
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      07-19-2012, 08:31 PM   #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapleridge View Post
"it" has already happened with the ARMA kit. Never say never. I don't think anyone can say for certain that another SC kit won't be built.
What happened with ARMA? A fly by night company made some wildly inexpensive(shitty) S/C units. They got the word out with false claims of easy, fantastic power gains. Desperate owners believed their exagerated claims and word spread like wild fire. A few sorry people took the bait and laid out big money for the magic bullet. Wasnt long at all before the stink of rotting fish ARMA was being talked about by the few who unfortunitly ponied up hard earned money. Nobody had the garbage on their cars long enough to see if the engines could take boost. Which brings up an important point. I have yet to see an independant dyno of an ARMA unit on a N/A BMW car. That speaks volumes. If anyone knows where one is, many of us would love to see it.
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