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      08-01-2011, 10:20 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelinIsRich08 View Post
What? A simple piss in the cup before you get your checks? To work at a Mcdonalds you need a drug test. These people don't deserve money for doing nothing.
It's not that simple. It's

(a) paying for the "piss in the cup"
(b) paying to ensure privacy is kept
(c) repaying for those who fail tests to get another test to confirm
(d) paying people to run new system
(e) overhead costs associated with all of this

Since when does government do anything "cheaply"?
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      08-01-2011, 10:26 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KGB7 View Post
Take what you said about employers drug testing and replace it with welfare word for word. We just need the Congress to pass the Act.

And i strongly believe that Govnt will save a lot of money by drug testing people that are on welfare. Look at this way; if you get a check for $200 each month, but the cost of drug screen is $60, thats a savings of $140 to Govnt if you dont pass the test. And as of today, i would have to take a light guess, that 50% of people wouldn't pass a drug test. And thats a lot of savings to Govnt.
"We just need the Congress to pass the act" is great and all ... but until they do, it's illegal. And then that "act" would have to stand up to challenges, and if previous cases are used as precedents, the act will have a tough time standing up.

While I understand what you're saying in regards to cost, other states have tried this before and have said it didn't save any money.

And your "light" guess of 50% is patently absurd and false. There have been studies on this that have shown they are no more apt than the general public to be drug users.

It's NOT a savings to government.
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      08-01-2011, 10:30 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldArmy View Post
We discriminate and differentiate all the time. What is unreasonable about not wanting to give my tax dollars to someone who will burn it in an illegal pursuit? Blind people don't get to drive, pedophiles don't get to work in a child care facility, felons don't get to buy guns, quadriplegics don't get to play pro football, women don't get to serve in combat arms, the list of acceptable discrimination is endless. Drug users are unlikely to use taxpayer aid to better themselves--indeed they are highly likely to use the money to feed or subsidize their habit. Now if aid consisted of subsistence items only (block of cheese, gallon of milk, etc) I might not care who got it but it doesn't.
This all sounds great, until you realize that you're now equating "someone who will burn it in an illegal pursuit," "blind people," "pedophiles," "felons," "quadriplegics," and "women" with those on welfare.

In regards to the law (and general common sense), these things are not the same. You need to learn (a) what discrimination means and (b) what an unreasonable search means.

How do you know that aid goes to drugs instead of a "block of cheese" or a "gallon of milk"? Have any PROOF? Or, just wild speculation?

Finally, I ask you this question:

If your problem with those on welfare is that they are getting taxpayer money and should therefore be subject to drug testing, do you also think the same standards should apply to those who receive medicare, medicaid, student grants, etc...??? What about police officers?
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      08-01-2011, 11:16 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MteK View Post
Answer this question:

At least 3/4 of the welfare payments / benefits are issued to the Children in the family. Most child-less abled body adults do not qualify for much more then Unemployment insurance. It's the fact that they have kids that gets them the aid.

Lets say you cut off funding / housing to a family because the parent does drugs. What do you do when the rate of malnourished / abused / homeless children increases?

Do you take them away? Because that costs a hell of a lot more money then the original welfare payment. Do you let them live on the streets helping create hordes of parent less, uneducated gutter criminals like in Brazil? - and the Police costs needed to handle this cost way more then the aid payments (of course).

Sorry, but Florida is the LAST place to look for well thought out comprehensive ideas.
This. Everyone always says "well lets cut welfare/child aid" but never gets to the "then what". It's easy to say cut TANF/medicaid/social security/other entitlement program but no one ever answers what you do with the gangs of poor children / crowded emergency rooms / elderly on the streets that are a result of removing these programs
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      08-01-2011, 10:06 PM   #27
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      08-02-2011, 12:40 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KGB7 View Post
Take what you said about employers drug testing and replace it with welfare word for word. We just need the Congress to pass the Act.

And i strongly believe that Govnt will save a lot of money by drug testing people that are on welfare. Look at this way; if you get a check for $200 each month, but the cost of drug screen is $60, thats a savings of $140 to Govnt if you dont pass the test. And as of today, i would have to take a light guess, that 50% of people wouldn't pass a drug test. And thats a lot of savings to Govnt.
If it's that easy why not just cut aid payments in half? Same effect no? or do you get some sense of "moral" satisfaction knowing you're only hurting the "bad" people?

Do you operate solely off anecdotes (like the video)? Or do you factor in the fndings from hundreds of thousands of hours spent by PHD's on this very subject when coming to a conclusion on this issue?
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      08-02-2011, 11:58 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MteK View Post
If it's that easy why not just cut aid payments in half? Same effect no? or do you get some sense of "moral" satisfaction knowing you're only hurting the "bad" people?

Do you operate solely off anecdotes (like the video)? Or do you factor in the fndings from hundreds of thousands of hours spent by PHD's on this very subject when coming to a conclusion on this issue?

Why do you care whos aid gets cut? You drive a BMW! Or is your BMW gets paid for through Govnt aid??

So get off your high horse, our Govnt is in so much debt that 20 generations of your family earnings wouldnt put a dent in it, yet you give a shit about aid that is given to the lazy and the idiots who squander money in to thin air like this moron in the video??? Interesting...
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      08-02-2011, 07:50 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KGB7 View Post
Why do you care whos aid gets cut? You drive a BMW! Or is your BMW gets paid for through Govnt aid??

So get off your high horse, our Govnt is in so much debt that 20 generations of your family earnings wouldnt put a dent in it, yet you give a shit about aid that is given to the lazy and the idiots who squander money in to thin air like this moron in the video??? Interesting...
So, to you, everyone on welfare is lazy and stupid?
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      08-02-2011, 09:05 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1997gtx View Post
So, to you, everyone on welfare is lazy and stupid?
No.
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      08-02-2011, 09:34 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by KGB7 View Post
No.
Then what's your point?
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      08-02-2011, 09:37 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1997gtx View Post
Then what's your point?

I made my point several times. If there is something specific you dont understand, then ask.
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      08-02-2011, 09:42 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KGB7 View Post
I made my point several times. If there is something specific you dont understand, then ask.
What is your point, exactly, as it relates to this post:

"...yet you give a shit about aid that is given to the lazy and the idiots who squander money in to thin air like this moron in the video???"

I'm wondering if you think the one person in the video is emblematic of a larger problem of lazy and stupid people on welfare, or if "the moron in this video" is just a random person.
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      08-02-2011, 09:53 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1997gtx View Post
What is your point, exactly, as it relates to this post:

"...yet you give a shit about aid that is given to the lazy and the idiots who squander money in to thin air like this moron in the video???"

I'm wondering if you think the one person in the video is emblematic of a larger problem of lazy and stupid people on welfare, or if "the moron in this video" is just a random person.
From living in Wash DC for over 20 years, and going to A.A. meetings for over 2 years, i have seen first hand that there are many lazy people who dont want to do anything but live of Govnt hand out. Even though there is a saying;"there are no stupid people." Truth is, there are dumb/stupid people and they perfectly fine with who they are to the brink of self ignorance. And stupidity comes from laziness.
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      08-02-2011, 09:54 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by KGB7 View Post
From living in Wash Dc area and going to A.A. meetings for over 2 years, i have seen first hand that there are many lazy people who dont want to do anything but live of Govnt hand out. Even though there is a saying;"there are no stupid people." Truth is, there are dumb/stupid people and they perfectly fine with who they are to the brink of self ignorance. And stupidity comes from laziness.
Sure, it's always easy to find lazy and stupid people. But you're avoiding the question. Are those on welfare more apt to be lazy and stupid than someone who say grew up in a rich house? It's not a trick question.
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      08-02-2011, 10:15 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by 1997gtx View Post
Sure, it's always easy to find lazy and stupid people. But you're avoiding the question. Are those on welfare more apt to be lazy and stupid than someone who say grew up in a rich house? It's not a trick question.
Im not trying to avoid your question, i guess i didnt understand it properly.

Yes and no. In my observation over the years, many people, not all, that live of welfare are lazier. They get a hand out thats good enough for them to get by, thus they have no need to try harder.

Its takes a lot of hard work to stay rich or become rich from nothing, but it requires no effort to stay poor and live of Govnt hand out. Thats not including the people that are working hard and put them selfs through school of Govnt grants or loans.

Does that answer your question?
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      08-03-2011, 12:41 AM   #38
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That's funny, because by far the laziest folks I know well enough to make any sort of judgement about whether they are lazy or not, are all very wealthy. By far the laziest are trust-funder kids (and trust-funder adults) who really have no idea what the value of money is, or what it means to work to earn a dollar.

All of the low income folks that get gov't help I've personally gotten to know well enough to make any sort of judgement about whether they are lazy or not, all work way harder than me or anyone else I know who make way more money.

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      08-03-2011, 09:40 AM   #39
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Whats the ratio of poor people per one rich person? 1/10,000? So you cant equally compare them side by side.
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      08-03-2011, 12:01 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by KGB7 View Post
Whats the ratio of poor people per one rich person? 1/10,000? So you cant equally compare them side by side.
Let me get this straight.

If a wealthy trust-funder is lazy, that wealthy trust-funder really isn't lazy at all because there are other lazy people who aren't wealthy?

whatever.

Have you actually gotten to know anyone on gov't assistance personally so you would be in a position to judge them? Or do you just hear a bunch of crap on internet websites, and assume you know how lazy people are?
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      08-03-2011, 12:03 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by KGB7 View Post
Im not trying to avoid your question, i guess i didnt understand it properly.

Yes and no. In my observation over the years, many people, not all, that live of welfare are lazier. They get a hand out thats good enough for them to get by, thus they have no need to try harder.

Its takes a lot of hard work to stay rich or become rich from nothing, but it requires no effort to stay poor and live of Govnt hand out. Thats not including the people that are working hard and put them selfs through school of Govnt grants or loans.

Does that answer your question?
LOL @ "requires no effort." I love that you think people want to stay on welfare. Yeah - it's a real lucrative business. LOL.
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      08-03-2011, 12:22 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by 1997gtx View Post
LOL @ "requires no effort." I love that you think people want to stay on welfare. Yeah - it's a real lucrative business. LOL.
I dont think, i know, that many people stay on welfare because they can. To them its free money that they get for doing nothing. Even if they have a job or two, no one is going to turn down a check for free money every month.

I have a guy in AA, he works a decent job, he has a wife that works, two kids, and hes been on welfare all his life, and he drives a BMW 5 series.

Look at all the people that have applied for unemployment. There has been articles over the last few years, that clearly provide guidance how live a fulfilling life while collecting unemployment. People take vacations with that money, traveling, riding motorcycles cross country, while living of free money for a year.

If some one started giving you free money every month, you wouldn't turn it down, no one would, its a simple fact.
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      08-03-2011, 01:19 PM   #43
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(a) How much money do you think people get from welfare?
(b) What state was this in?
(c) What does "I have a guy in AA" mean?
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      08-03-2011, 01:39 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1997gtx View Post
(a) How much money do you think people get from welfare?
(b) What state was this in?
(c) What does "I have a guy in AA" mean?

a) Depends on many things and the State you live in.
b)What was this in?
c) I go to AA meetings. Alcoholics Anonymous.
D) You can google pretty much everything you need to know on welfare.
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