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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Wash, Wax, Detailing and Cosmetic protection/repairs > Ask a Professional Detailer...



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      05-08-2007, 03:20 PM   #89
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My apologies for not being terribly clear. I use a DI filtration system on a pressure washer. I do a traditional wash with a quality soap, usually P21S and then dry with a leaf blower.
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      05-08-2007, 03:42 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by GreyGhost View Post
My apologies for not being terribly clear. I use a DI filtration system on a pressure washer. I do a traditional wash with a quality soap, usually P21S and then dry with a leaf blower.
Believe it or not, I've seen plenty of people use the technique that I thought you were describing. Not the most effective but it's better than an automatic car wash.

Back to your situation... what are you applying your shampoo with? Do you still use a wash bucket? two wash buckets? grit guard? Do you flood the vehicle with a hose prior to drying?

These are a few things that may help with your washing and drying process if you aren't already doing them.

George
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      05-08-2007, 04:23 PM   #91
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By GEORGE, I got it I just purchased this kit by Lake Country:
BFPK-400 Kit With 7" Rotary Plate
ITEMS IN THIS KIT:
1 CCS 8 inch Yellow Cutting Pad
1 CCS 8 inch Orange Light Cutting Pad
1 CCS 8 inch White Polishing Pad
1 CCS 8 inch Black Finishing Pad
1 CCS 8 inch Blue Final Finishing Pad
2 Cobra Microfiber Towels, 16 x 16 inches
1 Cobra Quik Clenz Pad Cleaner Packet
1 7" Rotary Backing Plate LC-43-175
BFPK-400-CIR$79.99



By the way, I purchased the Black & Decker Buffmaster about 10 years ago because it was "The Bentley" of buffers. I have not yet buffed my Bimmer, but instead have practiced on my Honda Civic :rocks: I will follow all of the safety precautions before I start my detail job and will keep you informed on the progress. Your input is invaluable and I hope the BMW community appreciates the time and effort you take to respond to us Hooligans:rocks: Oh, one last thing, which detail kit would you recommend, Maguiars, Mothers, or Zymol? Costco has a good deal on a Mothers detail kit and the other 2 are available at local auto stores.
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      05-08-2007, 04:38 PM   #92
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By the way, I purchased the Black & Decker Buffmaster about 10 years ago because it was "The Bentley" of buffers. I have not yet buffed my Bimmer, but instead have practiced on my Honda Civic :rocks: I will follow all of the safety precautions before I start my detail job and will keep you informed on the progress. Your input is invaluable and I hope the BMW community appreciates the time and effort you take to respond to us Hooligans:rocks: Oh, one last thing, which detail kit would you recommend, Maguiars, Mothers, or Zymol? Costco has a good deal on a Mothers detail kit and the other 2 are available at local auto stores.
Thanks for the positive feedback Ascension. I'd recommend the Meguiars Mirror Glaze line of products (it's one of their professional lines and typically in tan containers) or the Duragloss line of products if I were to detail my vehicle with products readily available at a local automotive store.

Let us know how you make out with everything.

George
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      05-11-2007, 06:21 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by Detailed Image View Post
Believe it or not, I've seen plenty of people use the technique that I thought you were describing. Not the most effective but it's better than an automatic car wash.

Back to your situation... what are you applying your shampoo with? Do you still use a wash bucket? two wash buckets? grit guard? Do you flood the vehicle with a hose prior to drying?

These are a few things that may help with your washing and drying process if you aren't already doing them.

George
I use (1) wool wash mit and (1) large wash bucket ¾ full with water and quality car shampoo. I use pressure washer to presoak and remove surface grime with special attention paid to wheel wells and lower surfaces to remove all surface grit and grime.

I them wash the car's body and windows regularly rinsing my mit to remove any residual particulates to avoid scratching. I do this in quarters followed by a rinse with the pressure washer. Since I am using DI water I can wait until the very end to dry. Then to cleaning the wheels and tires. After all is clean I do a global pressure rinse.

Next is to dry. Since there's usually a good coat of wax on the car the water is already well beaded and ready to come off. The leaf blower is used top to bottom and held 2-3 inched off the surface. Continue until completely dry. The beauty of this system is that you can remove water from joints and seams so that it doesn't reappear later to leave streaks and spots.

The leaf blower works great on wheels too. After drying is complete I them continue to wax if necessary and viola... clean car with a minimal of contact with the paint.
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      05-12-2007, 10:33 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by GreyGhost View Post
I use (1) wool wash mit and (1) large wash bucket ¾ full with water and quality car shampoo. I use pressure washer to presoak and remove surface grime with special attention paid to wheel wells and lower surfaces to remove all surface grit and grime.
Sounds like a much better process after hearing the entire thing. A less than $15 investment I'd recommend: Add a second wash bucket along with a Grit Guard insert to help release contamination from your wash mitt prior to re-dunking it into the suds. It's a solid insurance policy for minimizing adding imperfections.

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      05-12-2007, 10:58 AM   #95
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I got a grit-guard and it's pretty useful. I only have 1 though, for my rinse bucket. I'm sure another one in the shampoo bucket would be added insurance but that's what I got so far
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      05-12-2007, 03:44 PM   #96
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I got a grit-guard and it's pretty useful. I only have 1 though, for my rinse bucket. I'm sure another one in the shampoo bucket would be added insurance but that's what I got so far
1 is definitely a much bigger impact than 2, but you can never be too safe.

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      05-12-2007, 04:01 PM   #97
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My current bucket has a grit guard but I see the benefits of a second. Thanks.
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      05-12-2007, 04:25 PM   #98
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George, i've got these water spots that came with the car (dealer installed) on my windows that i just cant get rid of for the life of me.... here is what i've tried....

50/50 water, rubbing acohol
quick detailer
windex
Scratch X
goof off (like goo gone.....)

the scratch X helped get anything off on the surface but in the sunlight you can still see the rings from the water spots.... im going crazy here man do you have any other suggestions ?

Also do you know of anyone in or arround Tucson or phx that can help with factory buffer marks etc ?? I dont have a PC and honestly im not sure if i trust myself to use one......

Last edited by topher04r1; 05-12-2007 at 04:41 PM.
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      05-13-2007, 12:13 PM   #99
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^^^ try distilled viniger!
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      05-14-2007, 04:12 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by topher04r1 View Post
George, i've got these water spots that came with the car (dealer installed) on my windows that i just cant get rid of for the life of me.... here is what i've tried....

50/50 water, rubbing acohol
quick detailer
windex
Scratch X
goof off (like goo gone.....)

the scratch X helped get anything off on the surface but in the sunlight you can still see the rings from the water spots.... im going crazy here man do you have any other suggestions ?

Also do you know of anyone in or arround Tucson or phx that can help with factory buffer marks etc ?? I dont have a PC and honestly im not sure if i trust myself to use one......
First thing I'd try is what ADHD recommended below, and is found at any local supermarket.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ADHD View Post
^^^ try distilled viniger!
If that doesn't do the trick, a couple of options. I'd consider trying Glass Science Glass Scrub, which is a creme based glass polish that typically works very well for water spots. Here's some detailers reviews on Glass Scrub. (The review is of a kit we have with the Glass Scrub and Rain Clear repellent)

Beyond that, you'd be getting into using a buffer on your glass with a more abrasive product than ScratchX. I'd probably leave that to a professional.

As far as finding a pro in your area, I will try to do some digging to find someone I can recommend for you. To be honest with you, most of our customers have had better luck doing things themselves than outsourcing to a someone else. Unfortunately, there are significantly more bad detailers than there are quality ones out there. I'll keep you posted on anything I can dig up.

Let us know if either the vinegar or Glass Scrub does the trick for you.

George
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      05-14-2007, 09:42 AM   #101
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awesome ... thank you george....and as far as the buffer goes i'm warming up to the idea... lol
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      05-27-2007, 09:15 PM   #102
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George, Picus, or any other detailing experts - I need a little advice here. My e90 is black saph, and I've had it since last Oct, although because I've got a few other cars (including a company car) I only have 800 miles on it, and it's garaged. I did a full new car prep after 6 months (I was wrong thinking I had to wait 6 months because the paint was too soft). I use Griot's products, mainly because their store is 15 minutes away. I keep 2 coats of "Best of Show" wax on the car, applied with a pc. I have never used a sealant, which is the area I need help with. I tend to get a few marks on my car after driving, and even after a wash, something always seems to show up. I know how to wash, following detailed steps learned on this forum (I use 3 different sheepskin gloves, including 1 specifically for the hood, so I'm extremely careful). I want 2 things, to protect my wax with a sealant, and to make the color "pop" more. I plan on stripping my car down to a clean slate, removing all contaminates, removing any light scratches/marks, then applying wax again with a pc. What should I do next? Can I simply apply some Z5 pro with my pc? Or is there something else I should do? I've been through a detailing class at Griots so I'm good up to the sealant stage.

Oh, and should Z8 gloss enhancer be thrown in there somewhere? Thx in advance.
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      05-28-2007, 12:28 PM   #103
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George, Picus, or any other detailing experts - I need a little advice here. My e90 is black saph, and I've had it since last Oct, although because I've got a few other cars (including a company car) I only have 800 miles on it, and it's garaged. I did a full new car prep after 6 months (I was wrong thinking I had to wait 6 months because the paint was too soft). I use Griot's products, mainly because their store is 15 minutes away. I keep 2 coats of "Best of Show" wax on the car, applied with a pc. I have never used a sealant, which is the area I need help with. I tend to get a few marks on my car after driving, and even after a wash, something always seems to show up. I know how to wash, following detailed steps learned on this forum (I use 3 different sheepskin gloves, including 1 specifically for the hood, so I'm extremely careful). I want 2 things, to protect my wax with a sealant, and to make the color "pop" more. I plan on stripping my car down to a clean slate, removing all contaminates, removing any light scratches/marks, then applying wax again with a pc. What should I do next? Can I simply apply some Z5 pro with my pc? Or is there something else I should do? I've been through a detailing class at Griots so I'm good up to the sealant stage.

Oh, and should Z8 gloss enhancer be thrown in there somewhere? Thx in advance.
normtrum, great questions. The first thing to point out is that you wouldn't apply the sealant over your Best of Show wax. I too initially thought this was the best thing to do when I first learned about detailing, but here are the reasons you would want to apply the sealant under the wax.

If you were to apply a sealant over the wax, you will typically notice the sealant having a difficult time trying to bond on top of the wax and prevent even coverage. Also, the durability of the sealant would now become the durability of the wax, which is usually the major reason you use a sealant is for its extended durability. Finally, you'd want your best looking end product as the last step to get the most out of it's depth and gloss, which typically is your wax.

So the correct order would be to wash / dry -> clay -> polish -> sealant (Z-5 if that's what you end up with) -> Wax (Best of Show)... if you were to use the Z-8, I think it would be best used between the coat of Z-5 and your Best of Show Wax.

The additional "pop" will come from your prep work stages. Properly removing the contamination (wash & dry -> clay) and removing (or hiding) as many imperfections (compounding, polishing -> glazing) will get you the most out of your paint. The sealant will give you underlying durability for many months, and your wax will give you that added dimension of depth and gloss.

I think this covers most of what you asked, if you'd like me to clarify anything or you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to ask. Let us know how you make out.

George
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      05-28-2007, 02:58 PM   #104
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Thanks for getting back to me George. Let me ask you this, after I get through with all my prep, and I'm ready for the sealant (after polish), what products would you recommend? I'm not married to "Best of Show", and I've never used Zaino before.




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Originally Posted by Detailed Image View Post
normtrum, great questions. The first thing to point out is that you wouldn't apply the sealant over your Best of Show wax. I too initially thought this was the best thing to do when I first learned about detailing, but here are the reasons you would want to apply the sealant under the wax.

If you were to apply a sealant over the wax, you will typically notice the sealant having a difficult time trying to bond on top of the wax and prevent even coverage. Also, the durability of the sealant would now become the durability of the wax, which is usually the major reason you use a sealant is for its extended durability. Finally, you'd want your best looking end product as the last step to get the most out of it's depth and gloss, which typically is your wax.

So the correct order would be to wash / dry -> clay -> polish -> sealant (Z-5 if that's what you end up with) -> Wax (Best of Show)... if you were to use the Z-8, I think it would be best used between the coat of Z-5 and your Best of Show Wax.

The additional "pop" will come from your prep work stages. Properly removing the contamination (wash & dry -> clay) and removing (or hiding) as many imperfections (compounding, polishing -> glazing) will get you the most out of your paint. The sealant will give you underlying durability for many months, and your wax will give you that added dimension of depth and gloss.

I think this covers most of what you asked, if you'd like me to clarify anything or you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to ask. Let us know how you make out.

George
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      05-28-2007, 06:02 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by normtrum View Post
Thanks for getting back to me George. Let me ask you this, after I get through with all my prep, and I'm ready for the sealant (after polish), what products would you recommend? I'm not married to "Best of Show", and I've never used Zaino before.
If you were picking from Detailed Image, my favorite combinations are the following for Black Sapphire Metallic paint:

Best Bang for the Buck Combo:
Poorboy's EX-P Sealant
Poorboy's Natty's Blue Paste Wax

Best Possible Looks:
Menzerna Full Molecular Jacket
Pinnacle Souveran

Some differences between the two combo's...
The Poorboy's package will give you the best possible results in the looks department for slightly under $30 (with the e90post 10% discount). The EX-P will yield 3 - 4 months of protection, is very easy to work with and looks great on metallic colors. Natty's Blue adds a lot of depth and gloss, highlights the metallic flake and adds that wet look lasting ~1 month.

The Menzerna FMJ / Souveran package adds a few features. Slightly longer durability on the sealant, anywhere from 4 - 6 months on average. One benefit that FMJ offers is the surface slickness after applying it, it is VERY slick, especially when you prep the surface properly. On a mid sized car, I use about .75 oz per coat, less is more. I typically apply 2 coats to ensure even coverage, one after another. After letting the FMJ fully cure for 24 hours, apply Pinnacle Souveran on top for an extremely deep, warm glow that other waxes are unable to achieve until you begin to spend upwards around ~$150+ / jar. The downside is its durability is pretty short lived, 2 - 4 weeks tops.

Those, or any combination of those products (like Menzerna FMJ and Natty's Blue is another great option) would be what I'd recommend for maximum results on your specific colored vehicle. I don't think you'd be disappointed with any of the proposed combinations (including the Z5 / Best of Show combo). Let us know what you decide on and how you make out with everything.

George
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      05-28-2007, 09:25 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detailed Image View Post
If you were picking from Detailed Image, my favorite combinations are the following for Black Sapphire Metallic paint:

Best Bang for the Buck Combo:
Poorboy's EX-P Sealant
Poorboy's Natty's Blue Paste Wax

Best Possible Looks:
Menzerna Full Molecular Jacket
Pinnacle Souveran

Some differences between the two combo's...
The Poorboy's package will give you the best possible results in the looks department for slightly under $30 (with the e90post 10% discount). The EX-P will yield 3 - 4 months of protection, is very easy to work with and looks great on metallic colors. Natty's Blue adds a lot of depth and gloss, highlights the metallic flake and adds that wet look lasting ~1 month.

The Menzerna FMJ / Souveran package adds a few features. Slightly longer durability on the sealant, anywhere from 4 - 6 months on average. One benefit that FMJ offers is the surface slickness after applying it, it is VERY slick, especially when you prep the surface properly. On a mid sized car, I use about .75 oz per coat, less is more. I typically apply 2 coats to ensure even coverage, one after another. After letting the FMJ fully cure for 24 hours, apply Pinnacle Souveran on top for an extremely deep, warm glow that other waxes are unable to achieve until you begin to spend upwards around ~$150+ / jar. The downside is its durability is pretty short lived, 2 - 4 weeks tops.

Those, or any combination of those products (like Menzerna FMJ and Natty's Blue is another great option) would be what I'd recommend for maximum results on your specific colored vehicle. I don't think you'd be disappointed with any of the proposed combinations (including the Z5 / Best of Show combo). Let us know what you decide on and how you make out with everything.

George
Thanks George, you've been a big help. Last few questions (I hope), can both the Poorboys products be applied with my PC? And what's the best way to order from you, web or phone?
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      05-28-2007, 09:40 PM   #107
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Thanks George, you've been a big help. Last few questions (I hope), can both the Poorboys products be applied with my PC? And what's the best way to order from you, web or phone?
normtrum, glad I could be helpful. The EX-P can be applied via PC, I'd suggest using your finest pad, or if you are looking to pick one up, our Lake Country Fine Finishing Pad. A little goes a long way with the Poorboy's products, so not much product is needed.

Natty's Blue, and any paste wax IMO, should be applied via hand with either a microfiber applicator pad or a fresh foam applicator pad. I actually prefer the foam applicators for paste wax applications. With the Natty's Blue, when you use it for the first time, make sure you break thru the initial layer of wax by swirling around the wax with the foam pad and some light pressure. You don't want to gouge the wax, just work it in on center of the wax until it becomes more of a deeper blue. Thinner is better again when applying, you want to apply and remove just about right away, prior to it hazing for best results.

As far as ordering, I always prefer via the web because it insures that we have all your information entered correctly. Be sure to use your 10% off code, e90post, during check out to receive your discount.

If you have any other questions on anything, please do not hesitate to ask. I'm looking forward to hearing about your results and thoughts comparing the products to your past Griot's experience.

George
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      05-31-2007, 09:17 AM   #108
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I have number of questions which all relate to acid bird poop.

I have a Black Sapphire car and it has become a target for high flying Geese that I have in the area. The damn things seem to be targeting the car, however I degress.

I have read a number of posting on the subject and there are a number of opinions of how to deal with the mess the bird left behind. In my case the hood got hit and the car was sitting out in the sun for a while after it happen. I cleaned it off with water and noice it left a mark. I tried a few simple things with no luck. So I got a bit agressive hit it with rubbing compond and polish and it seemed to work, but a few days later the marks showed up again. Recently, I had the car in for servicing and asked the dealer to take a wack at it and they tried with no luck. They said the clear coat is etched.

The interesting thing is I have other cars which are not black but have clear coat and they have been hit and I did not clear off right away and never see this problem on them, and one is a dark red and it shows everything.

So my question is the only thing left to do is wet color sand with 1500 or 2000 grit and buff it all out. Or is there something else I can do, I really do not want to wet sand the car, I am not afraid to do this, since I use to restore cars and spend hundred of hours color sanding cars.

I have some other questions, I read it was a good ideal to waste the poop off with a mix of water and alcohol or vinegar, what exaclt does this do, and should I keep a bottle of this in car since the cars keeps getting hit.

Next thing is the clay block I have read about, again what exactly does this do for the finish and how does it remove the marks in the paint.
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      06-03-2007, 10:02 AM   #109
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George,
Just wanted to let you know I got the items you sent in near record time. Thanks for the quick service. A second question for anyone with experience, I put three small scratches, about 1-2mm long on my front spoiler. I can't get the whole thing repainted but cannot stand to see her with a scratch. I bought the BMW dealer touch-up kit and would like some advice on application. Thanks,
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      06-03-2007, 12:45 PM   #110
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I have number of questions which all relate to acid bird poop.

I have a Black Sapphire car and it has become a target for high flying Geese that I have in the area. The damn things seem to be targeting the car, however I degress.

I have read a number of posting on the subject and there are a number of opinions of how to deal with the mess the bird left behind. In my case the hood got hit and the car was sitting out in the sun for a while after it happen. I cleaned it off with water and noice it left a mark. I tried a few simple things with no luck. So I got a bit agressive hit it with rubbing compond and polish and it seemed to work, but a few days later the marks showed up again. Recently, I had the car in for servicing and asked the dealer to take a wack at it and they tried with no luck. They said the clear coat is etched.

The interesting thing is I have other cars which are not black but have clear coat and they have been hit and I did not clear off right away and never see this problem on them, and one is a dark red and it shows everything.

So my question is the only thing left to do is wet color sand with 1500 or 2000 grit and buff it all out. Or is there something else I can do, I really do not want to wet sand the car, I am not afraid to do this, since I use to restore cars and spend hundred of hours color sanding cars.

I have some other questions, I read it was a good ideal to waste the poop off with a mix of water and alcohol or vinegar, what exaclt does this do, and should I keep a bottle of this in car since the cars keeps getting hit.

Next thing is the clay block I have read about, again what exactly does this do for the finish and how does it remove the marks in the paint.
Maestro,

Sorry for the slow reply, I'm not sure how I missed your post. As far as the bird droppings, the way I treat them is the following. I remove the actual bird droppings with a mixture of Isopropyl Alcohol and Water... then I try to neutralize the mark with a mix of baking soda and water. You're goal is to neutralize the acid in the droppings which usually occurs from what the birds ate that day, berries, worms, etc. I've seen some bird droppings sit on paint for months with no etching (thank that birds diet) and some that etch within minutes of bombing, it really is just the luck of the draw, or splat.

After that, then you have to deal with the etching. Chances are if the compound made it go away then it came back, the compound used had some sort of fillers in it and you'll need to resort to something more aggressive. When using the compound (if you use it again) wipe it off with the ISA / Water to reveal the true clear coat without and fillers so you can more accurately decide how well the compounding did for you.

If polishing fails, the final step before a repaint would be to wet sand as you stated.

A clay bar will properly prep the surface and remove stubborn contamination that is not removed with a normal wash and dry. Here is a guide I've written about understanding clay bars and how-to use a clay bar properly.

Let me know how you make out and if you'd like me to go in more depth with anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapperelite View Post
George,
Just wanted to let you know I got the items you sent in near record time. Thanks for the quick service. A second question for anyone with experience, I put three small scratches, about 1-2mm long on my front spoiler. I can't get the whole thing repainted but cannot stand to see her with a scratch. I bought the BMW dealer touch-up kit and would like some advice on application. Thanks,
AJ, thanks for your positive feedback and your support! I'm excited to hear about your results using the products.

This is how I handle touch ups in a quick and dirty guide:

Apply the touch up paint liberally, you want to get that ugly blob effect. Let it cure for a few days. Come back to it and wet sand the blob down starting with around 1500 grit and working your way up to 2000, 2500, 3000 (whatever the highest you can get a hold of). After wet sanding you'll want to follow up with polishing stages to remove the wet sanding marks (this is why I recommend going as high as you can so it is easier to remove the wet sanding marks). When you are done polishing be sure to protect the paint.

http://autopia.org/forum/guide-detai...nt-clinic.html - Right in the middle has a more in depth writeup on repairing paint scratches, which I initially learned from actually. It does a good job going over each step.

If you have any questions after reading that, let me know I'd be happy to clarify anything for you.

George
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