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      12-23-2010, 03:24 PM   #1
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Ethanol causing n54/55 hpfp/injectors failures?

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This pretty much sounds like what n54/55's are experiencing with hpfp and injectors. Anyone know where the fuel filter is located? It would be interesting to take a look at one in a car that has had a hpfp failure.

"Second, we found ethanol and methanol has a very high detergent action (cleaning) that is many times more powerful than pure gasoline. Therefore it quickly removes varnish, scale and oxides from the walls and bottom of tanks. It accumulates in the fuel system in the form of slime and crud that starts clogging fuel filters, carburetors and injectors. Removing and cleaning our tanks helped, but occasionally we still experienced clogged filters and fuel pump failures. The problem continued to occasionally strand us on the roadside. We finally realized the problem was also caused by slightly contaminated gasoline purchased from stations while in route to races. That fuel usually would not immediately affect our filters. However when we blended ethanol/methanol it would quickly condense the contaminates (water & solids) into scum and slime that began clogging our filters again."


http://www.usafuelservice.com/ethanol.html

http://www.usafuelservice.com/qna.html
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      12-23-2010, 03:49 PM   #2
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no, they fail in places where there is no alcohol in gas, as well.
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      12-23-2010, 04:20 PM   #3
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Other than the US what other countries use E10?
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      12-23-2010, 08:39 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tag824 View Post
Other than the US what other countries use E10?
I think he was saying the pump fails in countries that don't use ethanol in gas. Personally I tried using non-ethanol gas...drove the extra mile just to be disappointed. Of course, that's just my case.
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      12-23-2010, 09:33 PM   #5
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I always thought ethanol was a contributor. The US is one of the few countries that use ethanol in our fuel as an ADDITIVE.

E85 vehicles are MADE to run on ethanol. Our cars are not.
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      12-24-2010, 06:53 AM   #6
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I fully agree with this...there has to be something in US fuel. I have many friends here in Taiwan who've never had problems. Even the service guy says he hasn't heard of any(many?) HPFP failures.
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      12-24-2010, 08:05 AM   #7
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how about poor engineering/lousy quality.


is that causing the failures? maybe if we didn't drive our cars they wouldnt' fail.
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      12-24-2010, 09:48 AM   #8
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^How about the US government doesn't care how our cars run, how much money, time, and effort it will cost to research and develop new platforms for ethanol "enriched" fuel, that using corn based ethanol will drive up demand for corn which is used for a number of things, including raising livestock and human consumption....all to be more "green."

What a selfish government we have......
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      12-24-2010, 10:05 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ********* View Post
^How about the US government doesn't care how our cars run, how much money, time, and effort it will cost to research and develop new platforms for ethanol "enriched" fuel, that using corn based ethanol will drive up demand for corn which is used for a number of things, including raising livestock and human consumption....all to be more "green."

What a selfish government we have......

How dare you use logic and make complete sense...shame on you sir!
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      12-24-2010, 10:10 AM   #10
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Loads HPFP of failures in Europe as well.....including my old car which never ran on ethanol mix fuel.
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      12-24-2010, 10:14 AM   #11
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^Germany is one of the few European countries to use ethanol.....current is 5%

They are pushing for 10%

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-0...cial-says.html

I'm not doubting that you didn't use a fuel with ethanol as an additive but gas stations don't tell you they don't add ethanol.....you have to dig for it.
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      12-24-2010, 10:14 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ********* View Post
^How about the US government doesn't care how our cars run, how much money, time, and effort it will cost to research and develop new platforms for ethanol "enriched" fuel, that using corn based ethanol will drive up demand for corn which is used for a number of things, including raising livestock and human consumption....all to be more "green."

What a selfish government we have......
It is not selfish in a sense it is just how democracy works, you have enough special interests to get the votes for it, like all other things. It is not even "more green" because corn based fuel is a very inefficient way to produce fuel.

But I thought 91 octane and up they don't do ethanol, only for regular unleaded gas, was I wrong about that?
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      12-24-2010, 10:18 AM   #13
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I'm not doubting that you didn't use a fuel with ethanol as an additive but gas stations don't tell you they don't add ethanol.....you have to dig for it.
I specifically inquired about the 91 octane Costco sells after they began to post the 10% ethanol labels on their pumps, the Costco manager told me it was only for the 87 not 91. He insisted his 91 has no ethanol, but of course we know how much a store employee knows about anything, even a manager.
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      12-24-2010, 10:39 AM   #14
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The shell 91 v-power here in Canada is 100% ethanol free. People who have used it since delivery still have HPFP problems. The fuel used is not the problem, the design of the pump is the problem.
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      12-24-2010, 11:11 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ********* View Post
^Germany is one of the few European countries to use ethanol.....current is 5%

They are pushing for 10%

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-0...cial-says.html

I'm not doubting that you didn't use a fuel with ethanol as an additive but gas stations don't tell you they don't add ethanol.....you have to dig for it.
I used Shell V Power Racing 100oct - there are lots of failures in the UK and other European countries as well - mine failed at 10000 miles which is better than some have faired.
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      12-24-2010, 11:30 AM   #16
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Guys I'm not saying ethanol is the sole reason for HPFP failures.....but it looks like there are tons more failures in the US than any other country. The only relationship I see is that the US uses 10% ethanol is some fuels where other countries use less or none at all.

It could be the pump design. It could be contamination at the pump stations. It could be anything really.
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      12-24-2010, 11:35 AM   #17
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I think it's a contributor.
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      12-24-2010, 11:46 AM   #18
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Many cars are direct injection, and have no issues, and all burn ethanol in the USA. So I would say not a factor. However I don't know of any car that runs oil temps like that 335i engine. The engine just runs to hot and I think that is were the issue is....

HS
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      12-24-2010, 11:49 AM   #19
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^But the fuel pump fails.....and to my understanding it's not located near enough to the engine where it would be affected by heat.
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      12-24-2010, 11:50 AM   #20
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I don't buy this whole ethanol killing hpfp and injector thing. There are hundreds of different models on the road today and only this car has these issues
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      12-24-2010, 11:52 AM   #21
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DTC100: All gasoline sold in Calif. contains 10% Ethanol. I have verified this with my test kit. No labels are required to be posted on the pumps since Jan 1, 1999 after passage of AB1650 in 1998. All 91 octane has 10% Ethanol. This is what I use.
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      12-24-2010, 03:24 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
It is not even "more green" because corn based fuel is a very inefficient way to produce fuel.
Correct. Maybe some people have used the "green" argument, but others have shown that it is not that "green" because of all the energy used growing the corn in the first place. It is more about reducing dependency on foreign products (think about it, you pay for terrorsts everytime you fill up at the pump) and exhaustible resources. Read:"The Frugal Superpower" Ethanol is here to stay in gas, and bio-diesel is its equivalent for diesel. The required levels of each additive will go up as the prices of fossil fuels goes up. I guess the question will be which technology (diesel or gas) will be able to cope best with the introduction of non-fossil fuel additives.
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