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      04-19-2007, 06:15 PM   #1
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Differences between PROCede and AA/XEDE?

Iím thinking of upgrading from the turbo-tuner to a procede, but suddenly the xede is available and has me wondering. Technically speaking what are the differences between the procede and xede as implemented on the 335? Not looking for fanboy responses, just specific technical and/or observed information.

In reading over the past few weeks Iíve picked up a few potential differences:

1) Procede has additional inputs. This doesnít really matter to me and I donít care about the future upgrades so please donít bother to mention them.

2) Xede crashes after a few days/weeks when on dedicated power. When on switched power, ECU canít communicate with sensors and throws a code. Potentially a big issue to me. Do the xedeís throw codes after a few days/weeks? Are they on switched or dedicated power in the AA implementation?

3) Procede doesnít require an additional boost solenoid. Does xede still require this? What is the deal with the procede needing vacuum lines moved around?

4) Does the AA xede map lean out part throttle cruise for an increase in gas mileage?

5) People claim the procede is smoother. How can this be true? Is it a function of the separate boost control solenoid on the older (and current??) xede installs?

TIA!


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      04-19-2007, 06:28 PM   #2
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1) if u like to buy new stuff all the time then the additional inputs wont matter but after time if something comes up youll be able to get it without spending more money on a different(better) product u already got it!!
2)No idea cant answer that one
3)vaccum lines are moved around as per the install video should be pretty straight forward.. the reasoning I have no idea..good question actually??
4)i doubt any of the chips will help gas mileage
5) it may be cuase of the minor incriements done at little adjustemts instead such a drastic change at once!!
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      04-19-2007, 06:31 PM   #3
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Procede will have launch control and can remove your top speed govenor when V2.0 is released. This is nice for cars w/o sports package that top out at 130mph.
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      04-19-2007, 06:33 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwzimmer View Post
Procede will have launch control and can remove your top speed govenor when V2.0 is released. This is nice for cars w/o sports package that top out at 130mph.
These features sound cool but don't do much for me. I'm more interested in out of the box differences as shipped today.
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      04-19-2007, 06:43 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Burger View Post
These features sound cool but don't do much for me. I'm more interested in out of the box differences as shipped today.
Thats not whats important to me at all, i would think it is important to have the capability to expand on a product. Per the reviews of the Procede i would say that out of the box it seems to be a great product, but knowing that you could do more with it later is another great thing. As for the lines being moved around and how everything works exactly is up to the manufacturer of the product to tell you, no one wants to give away their secrets but it doesnt hurt to ask. Mcdonalds will never tell you the ingredients of their special sauce but that doesnt stop people from buying Big Macs now does it.
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      04-19-2007, 06:43 PM   #6
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I thought you Drag race? Torque Management and maximum acceleration times don't matter to you? How do you handle 380+ lf-lbs at 3K rpm?
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      04-19-2007, 06:44 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwzimmer View Post
Procede will have launch control and can remove your top speed govenor when V2.0 is released. This is nice for cars w/o sports package that top out at 130mph.
launch control is much needed!!
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      04-19-2007, 06:48 PM   #8
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I thought you Drag race? Torque Management and maximum acceleration times don't matter to you? How do you handle 380+ lf-lbs at 3K rpm?
To me it's a tires/suspension and throttle modulation issue. If I want torque management I'll leave the factory system on.
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      04-19-2007, 07:50 PM   #9
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If we explain the differences between a PROcede and Xede, we'll just trigger another flame war. And the last I checked, we're the only people who are truly familiar with both systems. But those who have tried both (and currently run the PROcede) can offer their opinions as to how these differences translate to where it counts-- on the road.

We've spent the last 5 years developing the Xede to what it is today. And I'll be impressed if anyone takes it any further without a complete hardware redesign. The PROcede, as I see it, is already twice as capable as the Xede and we're still on version 1.x of the software. Wait until you guys see v2.0 Launch control is only a small part of it.

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      04-19-2007, 08:03 PM   #10
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Ahhh, Shiv, you are such a tease with that v2.0
Bring it on.

Gonna PM you Shiv, gotta question for you.
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      04-19-2007, 08:41 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
If we explain the differences between a PROcede and Xede, we'll just trigger another flame war. And the last I checked, we're the only people who are truly familiar with both systems. But those who have tried both (and currently run the PROcede) can offer their opinions as to how these differences translate to where it counts-- on the road.

We've spent the last 5 years developing the Xede to what it is today. And I'll be impressed if anyone takes it any further without a complete hardware redesign. The PROcede, as I see it, is already twice as capable as the Xede and we're still on version 1.x of the software. Wait until you guys see v2.0 Launch control is only a small part of it.

shiv
I agree, except I do have one question...how do you know that the AA-tuned XEDE doesn't perform differently than your old XEDE; e.g. like the way your XEDE turned on the HP/TQ like an "on/off" switch? In other words, how do you know it isn't possible to fine-tune the XEDE s/w so that it could run the 335i in a similar fashion as the PROcede does? Is it absolutely impossible to tweak it any more than what you were able to do when you had the XEDE?

btw -- yes, I too am really looking forward to PROcede v2.0!!!
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      04-19-2007, 09:05 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sflgator View Post
I agree, except I do have one question...how do you know that the AA-tuned XEDE doesn't perform differently than your old XEDE; e.g. like the way your XEDE turned on the HP/TQ like an "on/off" switch? In other words, how do you know it isn't possible to fine-tune the XEDE s/w so that it could run the 335i in a similar fashion as the PROcede does? Is it absolutely impossible to tweak it any more than what you were able to do when you had the XEDE?

btw -- yes, I too am really looking forward to PROcede v2.0!!!
The mapping of the Xede can be adjusted from our old settings which I'm sure AA and others have done. Other than knowledge, there is nothing stopping anyone from mapping an Xede to control boost similar to the way the PROcede controls boost. But the method of boost control was one of the more minor differences between the PROcede and Xede. With the Xede, to avoid knock, we eventually had to nest two timing maps into each other to provide a short-term retard that was triggered during sudden changes of load. The supplementary retard would decay to 0 after a second. With the PROcede, we do things a bit more elegantly since we had the opportunity to start over from scratch. This is how were were able to safely extract 20-30lbft more torque in the low end with the PROcede. I'm not sure that the nested timing map is still a part of the Xede map structure so the guys at AA are now best equipped to answer that question.

As for fuel control, we adjusted the MAP attentuation rates as a function of engine speed and load. This is what makes the car feel so smooth and 'natural" when driving. It also contributes to its knock resistance because we're no longer spiking boost faster than the factory fuel system can react. That's just a couple of things we had the opportunity to implement when we developed the PROcede for the 335i. All of which are finding their way into the Porsche 911tt PROcede we're developing right now. And similarly, all the new features we are developing for Porsche PROcede are finding their way into the PROcede v2 update.

Cheers,
shiv

Last edited by shiv@vishnu; 04-19-2007 at 09:22 PM.
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      04-19-2007, 09:21 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
The mapping of the Xede can be adjusted from our old settings which I'm sure AA and others have done. There is nothing stopping anyone from mapping an Xede to control boost similar to the way the PROcede controls boost. But the method of boost control was one of the more minor differences between the PROcede and Xede. With the Xede, to avoid knock, we eventually had to nest two timing maps into each other to provide a short-term retard that was triggered during sudden changes of load. The supplementary retard would decay to 0 after a second. With the PROcede, we do things a bit more elegantly since we had the opportunity to start over from scratch. This is how were were able to safely extract 20-30lbft more torque in the low end with the PROcede. I'm not sure that the nested timing map is still a part of the Xede map structure so the guys at AA are now best equipped to answer that question.

As for fuel control, we adjusted the MAP attentuation rates as a function of engine speed and load. This is what makes the car feel so smooth and 'natural" when driving. It also contributes to its knock resistance because we're no longer spiking boost faster than the factory fuel system can react. That's just a couple of things we had the opportunity to implement when we developed the PROcede for the 335i. All of which are finding their way into the Porsche 911tt PROcede we're developing right now. And similarly, all the new features we are developing for Porsche PROcede are finding their way into the PROcede v2 update.

Cheers,
shiv
Thanks! Did I already mention ...looking forward to PROcede v2.0???
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      04-19-2007, 09:28 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
All of which are finding their way into the Porsche 911tt PROcede we're developing right now. And similarly, all the new features we are developing for Porsche PROcede are finding their way into the PROcede v2 update.
Cheers,
shiv

A Proceded Porsche 911 twin turbo... YIKES!!!!!
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      04-19-2007, 09:30 PM   #15
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Thanks! Did I already mention ...looking forward to PROcede v2.0???
I'm running a prototype version of the v2 software on our 911 turbo right now and I'm completely enthusiastic about it. Going to try it out on the 335i on Sunday when I get back from this weekend's tuning trip in Albany, NY. We still have to rework the front end of the user software a bit in order to make it all user friendly. But all the meat and potato work is done for the most part. FWIW, I've always wanted to release something like this. So yeah, I'm happy about it To update to v2 (when we release it), all you guys have to do is upload a new firmware file into the PROcede using your laptop. It takes about 30 seconds to load up. And that's it

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      04-19-2007, 09:34 PM   #16
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A Proceded Porsche 911 twin turbo... YIKES!!!!!
Yes.. complete with wires and hoses running from the engine bay into the cabin


Oh, and it's making somewhere around 510bhp and 560bft of torque on 91oct gas at 1bar of boost. Only mod is the PROcede, couple of stickers and some Starbucks chai latte stains on the rear seats.

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      04-19-2007, 09:39 PM   #17
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Yes.. complete with wires and hoses running from the engine bay into the cabin


Oh, and it's making somewhere around 510bhp and 560bft of torque on 91oct gas at 1bar of boost. Only mod is the PROcede.

shiv
So, what's that running...0-60mph in ~ 3.0 sec. and 1/4 mi. in ~ 11.0 sec. @ 125mph!!!! SICK!!!!!!!!!! :rocks:

Yeah, gotta like the wire. j/k. That's very cool, Shiv!!!
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      04-19-2007, 09:40 PM   #18
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Oh, and it's making somewhere around 510bhp and 560bft of torque on 91oct gas at 1bar of boost. Only mod is the PROcede.
wow.
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      04-19-2007, 09:45 PM   #19
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That's amazing, Shiv. I don't think that the chips that most people are running have torque that high. I had 487 ft/lbs and 510 hp with Upsolute. I know some of the others are around 500 ft/lbs, but to go higher they needed to upgrade the turbos to the K 24s.

Outstanding!!
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      04-19-2007, 09:46 PM   #20
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More pics from the all-too-familar development process:

This is how it always looks when you get in:


This is how we get air to the two side mounted intercoolers during dyno testing:


Strapped down tight on an AWD dyno:


And yes, we are very blessed that we get to do something we love. And big thanks to everyone for making it all happen

Shiv
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      04-19-2007, 10:01 PM   #21
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      04-19-2007, 10:32 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
As for fuel control, we adjusted the MAP attentuation rates as a function of engine speed and load. This is what makes the car feel so smooth and 'natural" when driving. It also contributes to its knock resistance because we're no longer spiking boost faster than the factory fuel system can react. That's just a couple of things we had the opportunity to implement when we developed the PROcede for the 335i. All of which are finding their way into the Porsche 911tt PROcede we're developing right now. And similarly, all the new features we are developing for Porsche PROcede are finding their way into the PROcede v2 update.

Cheers,
shiv
What parameters does the xede use for map attenuation?
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