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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Big difference between JB+ & JB4 on a stock application



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      08-22-2011, 10:32 AM   #1
Used2335
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Big difference between JB+ & JB4 on a stock application

So I've tried a JB+ and I'm planning on either the Procede or JB4 route for my 335i 6mt. The JB+ was pretty cool, but I'm understanding that you can grab a little more power from the piggy back tunes.

What I'm questioning is the feeling difference of the JB+ vs JB4 on a car that has no other modifications but the tune? According to the Burger website, the dyno charts of a JB+ turned up to 100% have very similar performance gains as a JB4, all on stock applications.

I'm sure people here with experience with these and similar tunes will be able to comment on this. Thanks in advance!
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      08-22-2011, 10:33 AM   #2
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The upgrade is worth it. Period.
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      08-22-2011, 10:39 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions View Post
The upgrade is worth it. Period.
Thanks, and I've heard that, but that doesn't really answer the question!
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      08-22-2011, 10:42 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcrac View Post
Thanks, and I've heard that, but that doesn't really answer the question!
I would go back and look at those dynos. There is more power in the mid-range, its sustained longer and there is more power on the top end with the JB4 and PROcede. Also running a 100% Jb+ is not really recommended so those numbers would not be realistic to the average joe as most people stay at 50 or 75%.

The full tunes also are more feature enriched and able to control a lot more of your engine. The JB+ although a great so called "Starter tune" is hardly a tune its just a boost controller in essence.

A full tune is actually a safer approach IMO as fuel and ignition can be controlled.

If you need any help further I'm a PM/email away.
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      08-22-2011, 10:44 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions View Post
I would go back and look at those dynos. There is more power in the mid-range, its sustained longer and there is more power on the top end with the JB4 and PROcede. They also are more feature enriched and able to control a lot more of your engine. The JB+ although a great so called "Starter tune" is hardly a tune its just a boost controller in essence.

A full tune is actually a safer approach IMO as fuel and ignition can be controlled.

If you need any help further I'm a PM/email away.
That is the key part of this post.
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      08-22-2011, 10:49 AM   #6
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The ability to troubleshoot any issues yourself with the code reading is worth it alone.
Just do it . Now. Go now and do it. GO!


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      08-22-2011, 10:52 AM   #7
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Good call, safety is one of the main reasons I've pulled my jb+ off the car. I had a reflash done on my 2.0t vw and it really made an all around difference on the car. The feeling wasn't so all around for me on the jb+ (could just be mental). Is this what I should expect with a
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      08-22-2011, 02:13 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcrac View Post
So I've tried a JB+ and I'm planning on either the Procede or JB4 route for my 335i 6mt. The JB+ was pretty cool, but I'm understanding that you can grab a little more power from the piggy back tunes.

What I'm questioning is the feeling difference of the JB+ vs JB4 on a car that has no other modifications but the tune? According to the Burger website, the dyno charts of a JB+ turned up to 100% have very similar performance gains as a JB4, all on stock applications.

I'm sure people here with experience with these and similar tunes will be able to comment on this. Thanks in advance!
The JB4 is much more advanced then the JB+ but the JB+ is great for what it is, a simple plug in solution that runs very conservative boost.

With the JB4 you will notice smoother power delivery, more power and much more features. At 100% the JB+ is not that smooth so you will notice better drivability for sure, even if the power delivery won't be that different from map1 on the JB4 to the JB+ at 100%.

Its well worth the upgrade.

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      08-24-2011, 06:39 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions View Post
Also running a 100% Jb+ is not really recommended so those numbers would not be realistic to the average joe as most people stay at 50 or 75%.
Where does it say not to run 100%? I've read comments about the JB+ being a boost controller and not a real tune, however I've never read anything about it harming the engine.

OP if you just want more power for around the street and never race your not going to notice a huge difference. The power down low is similar up top is where you'll feel a little more. It's not night and day like some claim.
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      08-24-2011, 08:30 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions View Post
The upgrade is worth it. Period.
^ Plus 1. The performance gains, gauge controls, ease of use, and everything in between is fantastic! Definitely get it man!
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      08-24-2011, 10:43 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caradd View Post
Where does it say not to run 100%? I've read comments about the JB+ being a boost controller and not a real tune, however I've never read anything about it harming the engine.

OP if you just want more power for around the street and never race your not going to notice a huge difference. The power down low is similar up top is where you'll feel a little more. It's not night and day like some claim.
How come people always play with words around here

I never said it would HARM your engine. JB+ at 100% is not recommended is what I said.

If people read the instructions they would see this. (dont worry I'm not picking on you I just hate when people turn words around).

Quote:
The JB+ is adjustable from ~1.75psi over stock to ~4.75psi over stock using the white
adjustment dial. These figures are averages and actual boost changes will depend on
weather, altitude, and modifications. Adjustment is made using a small screwdriver to
turn the white inner dial. Do not turn the entire blue pot or you may damage the JB+.
Towards the "max" setting indicates more boost, "min" setting indicates less boost, and
the exact middle as shown is the default setting.
It is suggested users under warranty without access to a BT cable or CAN Tool (available
at www.burgertuning.com) use no more than the default setting avoid hidden tuner

detection codes. Also note higher settings may not always increase performance and may
lead to various check engine lights. If you experience 30FF codes at higher settings
during wide open throttle doing the free solenoid bypass detailed in our JB2 install guide
may help.
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      08-24-2011, 11:27 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions View Post
How come people always play with words around here

I never said it would HARM your engine. JB+ at 100% is not recommended is what I said.

If people read the instructions they would see this. (dont worry I'm not picking on you I just hate when people turn words around).
I can see how that got misinterpreted.

The first sentence was meant for you, second sentence was more of a general question for all those who say the JB+ can be harmful. Please provide some proof cause I've never seen it.

I like to try things out so I've gone through the JB+, JB3, JB4, Procede V4/V5, and Cobb AP. Just trying to give the OP some unbiased opinion. It is not a huge difference, powerwise like some mention here.
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      08-24-2011, 12:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caradd View Post
I can see how that got misinterpreted.

The first sentence was meant for you, second sentence was more of a general question for all those who say the JB+ can be harmful. Please provide some proof cause I've never seen it.

I like to try things out so I've gone through the JB+, JB3, JB4, Procede V4/V5, and Cobb AP. Just trying to give the OP some unbiased opinion. It is not a huge difference, powerwise like some mention here.
A so called tune with no control of fuel or ignition is A) not a tune and B) not maximizing performance. Does it work, of course, is their better? Yes.
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      08-24-2011, 01:17 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caradd View Post
Where does it say not to run 100%? I've read comments about the JB+ being a boost controller and not a real tune, however I've never read anything about it harming the engine.

OP if you just want more power for around the street and never race your not going to notice a huge difference. The power down low is similar up top is where you'll feel a little more. It's not night and day like some claim.
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      08-24-2011, 01:20 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FastBimmerN54 View Post
A so called tune with no control of fuel or ignition is A) not a tune and B) not maximizing performance. Does it work, of course, is their better? Yes.
Ok the JB+ does not have DIRECT control over fuel or ignition. I would think it relies on the DME for those functions?

If so, isn't just like the JB3 was and the JB4 was regarding at least ignition control?

So according to Tuner A, the DME was good enough to make the adjustments. Though now they have a CPS module addon.

Now according to different tuners, some say the DME is good enough to make adjustments and some say not. But there is no definitive proof. If anyone has proof please post it up.

Then we find out the stock DME adjust timing per cylinder. Tuner B (who I will not name but anyone who follows this would know), says their tune makes their timing adjustments off of cylinder 1 and the DME does the rest. So is this now saying the stock DME was good enough to make adjustments in the first place?

Regarding B, Of course if you want to maximize performance you would go with an alternative that will allow you to get the maximize performance out of the car, but the OP is talking about a stock car with tune.
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      08-24-2011, 01:22 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caradd View Post
Ok the JB+ does not have DIRECT control over fuel or ignition. I would think it relies on the DME for those functions?

If so, isn't just like the JB3 was and the JB4 was regarding at least ignition control?

So according to Tuner A, the DME was good enough to make the adjustments. Though now they have a CPS module addon.

Now according to different tuners, some say the DME is good enough to make adjustments and some say not. But there is no definitive proof. If anyone has proof please post it up.

Then we find out the stock DME adjust timing per cylinder. Tuner B (who I will not name but anyone who follows this would know), says their tune makes their timing adjustments off of cylinder 1 and the DME does the rest. So is this now saying the stock DME was good enough to make adjustments in the first place?

Regarding B, Of course if you want to maximize performance you would go with an alternative that will allow you to get the maximize performance out of the car, but the OP is talking about a stock car with tune.
Which leaves C) All of the tunes for this platform need improvement. No disagreement here on that.
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      08-24-2011, 01:23 PM   #17
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Quote:
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LOL,
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      08-24-2011, 01:30 PM   #18
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LOL,
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      08-24-2011, 02:03 PM   #19
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i have the same question
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      08-24-2011, 02:41 PM   #20
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      08-24-2011, 06:50 PM   #21
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Any hard dyno #s out there? DCI/JB @ 75% vs DCI/JB4 map 1 or 5?
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      08-24-2011, 07:05 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caradd View Post
Where does it say not to run 100%? I've read comments about the JB+ being a boost controller and not a real tune, however I've never read anything about it harming the engine.

OP if you just want more power for around the street and never race your not going to notice a huge difference. The power down low is similar up top is where you'll feel a little more. It's not night and day like some claim.
There are thousands of the JB+ system in use over the past few years and thousands of a similar (although inferior) tune called the SSTT in use as well. Never heard of a single related break down, melted plug, or anything that would indicate they are unreliable or reduce the lifespan of the motor. Many customers have 100k miles on these tunes now. It's a 2-3psi increase over stock. The fueling is closed loop and runs the OEM air/fuel ratios and the advance curve learns out 1-2 degrees. The OEM tuning runs more boost than the JB+ does on hot days and/or high elevation. If the question is whether the JB4 is worth the extra money and install effort then I'd say it definitely is but the JB+ is rock solid reliable and probably the safest tune you can put on an N54.

Mike
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