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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > FBO and Inlets... Then what?



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      09-25-2015, 03:02 PM   #1
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FBO and Inlets... Then what?

What's my limiting factor at this point (once I get all this shit installed anyway)? Turbos? Fuel?

I'd like to eventually hit around 500whp give or take..
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      09-25-2015, 03:20 PM   #2
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fuel and turbo's are the limiting factor.

seems like most people with or without inlets max out about 450ish WHP with E60ish. then its pretty much the fuel setup holding you back as well as the stock turbos, that is taking into account that you already have an upgraded LPFP. the inlets might gain you a little extra PSI, on the turbos, but if you cannot fuel them then its not helping much powerwise other than less stress on them. at around 20psi, the hpfp and no extra fueling on e60 is about done. you could probably go down to e40-e50 and run a little less timing and maybe get a few more lbs of boost.

I know there was the record of stock turbo at 500rwhp, but that's not realistic to run day after day on stock turbos even if you could get your car to put that down, I think they guy ended up running almost 25lbs in the midrange for that number, and that was not without extra fuel I don't believe. realistically 450whp is the brick wall before spending a lot to upgrade the turbos and fuel system

basically that's when it starts getting expensive and you have to speed a few thousand to upgrade turbo's and start running meth or some type of additional fueling like port or throttle body injection to get to your 500whp goal.

I think that is a big reason you see a lot of people sticking with FBO and E85 on stock turbos, 425-450whp in a 3500lb car isn't too bad, its still relatively reliable, its relatively cheap to obtain.

Last edited by matthewo; 09-25-2015 at 03:29 PM.
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      09-25-2015, 04:04 PM   #3
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Fuel, turbos. Decide how big you want to go then pick accordingly. Don't forget the chassis. Brakes, coilovers, lsd, wheels, tires, subframe bushings, etc, etc, etc. Pretty soon you'll catch up to me and the other lunatics.
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      09-25-2015, 10:55 PM   #4
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Yeah, that's why I'm asking now. The next chunk of change won't be power - the inlets (and a retune) will be the last things I do for a while in the power department, maybe the LPFP if it's needed at this point.

Right now I'm turning my attention to appearance for a bit - M3 replica front/rear bumpers, the hood and deckled, custom fender flares to fit F14 SDCs without stretching the tires, and the paint and install to do that.

After or during that, I'm doing the ECS Stage 3 suspension refresh with M3 bits and all new bushings including trans bushings and upgraded rear trailing arms, as well as the Bilstein B12 with Eibach Pro-Kit springs/shocks.

Then I'll take a break for a bit (I hope) and just enjoy it as is. At that point, I'll decide whether I'll push for more power or just keep it as a pimpin' daily for a while.
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      09-25-2015, 11:51 PM   #5
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That's personal preference. I did minor appearance on mine. I wanted more of a sleeper. Clear side reflectors, carbon spoiler on the trunk lid tint, Msport ground wffects and bumpers, halos. Still looks the part of a normal 3 series but at the same time to the initiated a little better for some reason lol.
But before turbos I would definitely beef up handling, lsd, and brakes so you have a car that can safely and effectively use the power.
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      09-26-2015, 08:23 AM   #6
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+1 on LSD, shocks/suspension after hitting FBO/E85 power level.
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      09-26-2015, 10:09 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasW View Post
+1 on LSD, shocks/suspension after hitting FBO/E85 power level.
What I'm doing right now. I've got KWV2 just installed, m3 front control arms on the way, LSD already in, and AKE black subframe bushings in the mail. Turbos,, clutch, fuel rail etc waiting for these to go in.

From my build thread. Maybe give you some ideas.

At this point I have:
-Wavetrac 3.08 LSD
-Boost Addictions LSD lockdown
-KW V2 coilovers with 1" front drop, 1/2" rear
-AKG black subframe bushings
-M3/TRW front control arms
-M3 Strut tower brace
-VRSF 7" FMIC with aluminum downpipes
-Juicebox 4 G5 with 2 step module
-Breyton Race CS rims 19x8.5 et.30 front, 19x9.5 et.35 rear
-Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires 235/35-19 front, 275/30-19 rear
-Stoptech drilled and slotted rotors, pads
-New OEM water pump, radiator, PCV valve, oil filter gasket, valve cover gasket
-OEM Aero front lip and Msport rear bumper, M3 side skirts
-Laser Interceptor Jammers
-Hard wired a Garmin GPS and Valentine One radar detector
-JL touring carbon fiber rear wing
-Black and white carbon fiber roundels
-Clear reflectors
-Smart Top module
-Cree 80w angel eyes
-M3 steering wheel with Alcantara trim
-ZSP short weighted shift knob
-15% window tint

In December this will be installed. I have all the parts already:
-Vargas stage 2+ turbos with 9 blade Garrett clipped turbos, 6x6 billet compressor, 20T drive gear
-Motiv Dual disc clutch and flywheel
-VRSF charge pipe
-VRSF catless downpipes
-BMS clutch valve and clutch stop
-Fuel-it stage 3 double LPFP
-Cobb V3 with Motiv/PTF tune
-Motiv fuel rail stage 2

I need to still get
-NGK plugs
-Forge diverter valves
-Vargas or VRSF inlet pipes
-Manzo rear toe control arms
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      09-26-2015, 05:17 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewo View Post
fuel and turbo's are the limiting factor.

seems like most people with or without inlets max out about 450ish WHP with E60ish. then its pretty much the fuel setup holding you back as well as the stock turbos, that is taking into account that you already have an upgraded LPFP. the inlets might gain you a little extra PSI, on the turbos, but if you cannot fuel them then its not helping much powerwise other than less stress on them. at around 20psi, the hpfp and no extra fueling on e60 is about done. you could probably go down to e40-e50 and run a little less timing and maybe get a few more lbs of boost.

I know there was the record of stock turbo at 500rwhp, but that's not realistic to run day after day on stock turbos even if you could get your car to put that down, I think they guy ended up running almost 25lbs in the midrange for that number, and that was not without extra fuel I don't believe. realistically 450whp is the brick wall before spending a lot to upgrade the turbos and fuel system

basically that's when it starts getting expensive and you have to speed a few thousand to upgrade turbo's and start running meth or some type of additional fueling like port or throttle body injection to get to your 500whp goal.

I think that is a big reason you see a lot of people sticking with FBO and E85 on stock turbos, 425-450whp in a 3500lb car isn't too bad, its still relatively reliable, its relatively cheap to obtain.
Yea the 425-450whp mark is pretty much the sweet spot for these vehicles.
Like you said, past that you're starting to drop some good coin as well as having to change the car up quite a bit under the hood.
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      09-26-2015, 11:59 PM   #9
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Stuck on turbos and can't decide what to upgrade to.
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      09-28-2015, 09:21 AM   #10
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wont get to 500whp with stock turbos unless you are trying to just get numbers, have no driveability, and want to blow your turbos ASAP. Youll need hybrids or big single to get past that. At that point, fuel will limit you.
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      09-28-2015, 09:40 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csu87 View Post
wont get to 500whp with stock turbos unless you are trying to just get numbers, have no driveability, and want to blow your turbos ASAP. Youll need hybrids or big single to get past that. At that point, fuel will limit you.
Which brings you to port injection and a stage 3 LPFP upgrade -- then you should be looking at 600+whp.
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      09-28-2015, 11:48 AM   #12
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If you have an auto, the transmission will be a limiting factor too right?
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      09-28-2015, 12:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo_power4ever View Post
If you have an auto, the transmission will be a limiting factor too right?
not really if you are only FBO.

You get into tranny issues with hybrids or singles, but that can be mitigated through tuning.
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      09-28-2015, 12:46 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csu87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo_power4ever View Post
If you have an auto, the transmission will be a limiting factor too right?
not really if you are only FBO.

You get into tranny issues with hybrids or singles, but that can be mitigated through tuning.
O ok. Cuz im pretty much fbo except for inlets and i was worried about messing up my transmission. Lol
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      09-28-2015, 01:10 PM   #15
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Nope. Auto Trans can handle 500hp over it gets sketchy. Manuel just needs appropriate clutch.
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      09-28-2015, 04:29 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
Fuel, turbos. Decide how big you want to go then pick accordingly. Don't forget the chassis. Brakes, coilovers, lsd, wheels, tires, subframe bushings, etc, etc, etc. Pretty soon you'll catch up to me and the other lunatics.
Your old sig used to have me especially with the amount of miles you had on your chassis..!
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      09-28-2015, 05:14 PM   #17
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Level 10 does a killer buildup, though it's not cheap:

http://www.levelten.com/Bmw_automati...1800-9000s.htm

My plan is to go RB when the stockers go and fuel appropriately, but I won't be pushing for dyno queen numbers. I'll be looking for a driveable daily build.

As I said above, doing some appearance work and a lot of suspension work comes next. Unless the turbos pop on me, then we'll see.
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Awaiting Install - VRS V35 FRP hood, Vorsteiner CF CSL decklid, M3 sideskirts, CF Trim, ar design Stage 1 Oil Cooler, MHD
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      09-28-2015, 05:47 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team503
Level 10 does a killer buildup, though it's not cheap:

http://www.levelten.com/Bmw_automati...1800-9000s.htm

My plan is to go RB when the stockers go and fuel appropriately, but I won't be pushing for dyno queen numbers. I'll be looking for a driveable daily build.

As I said above, doing some appearance work and a lot of suspension work comes next. Unless the turbos pop on me, then we'll see.
Isnt there a thread on n54 tech that talks about horrible services from lv 10? Lol also i thought i read somewhere that they are not proven, they just state unproven fact.
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      09-28-2015, 06:57 PM   #19
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So glad I chose manual 7 yrs ago.
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      09-28-2015, 08:02 PM   #20
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So glad I chose manual 7 yrs ago.
Yeah but i heard from a certain 328 owner that your car is slow
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      09-28-2015, 08:10 PM   #21
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Then you do handling/chassis mods to put all that power down
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      09-28-2015, 08:15 PM   #22
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Then you do handling/chassis mods to put all that power down
I'm doing mine first so the chassis can handle it when it's done. They're fun in their own way too.
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