E90Post
 


Extreme Power House
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Level 10 AT Transmission Upgrade



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-07-2011, 12:32 AM   #23
enrita
Major General
 
enrita's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i - Big turbos
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Italian in Sweden

Posts: 7,323
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemw335 View Post
Can you tell me at what power levels you noticed slippage?
is very difficult to notice slippage. at least i did not notice it. What helped me was actuallly racing and pbox times. During last event my times picked up 1 second every run .
Car was overrevving between shifts and did not want to shift anymore from 4-5th gear.
I would say after 450 whp its a lottery. Maybe using a tranny cooler would help to preserve the tranny longer .
__________________
07 335i AT - TD St.2 Turbos - COBB (Custom Cobb mapping by http://www.protuningfreaks.com/) - JB4G5 ISO - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - E85 Walbro - Injen Intake - Helix IC - Snow Stg. 3 - Stett CP - AR DPs - midpipes 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - Level 10 AT upgrade - Alpina AT Flash
enrita is offline   Sweden
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2011, 12:36 AM   #24
enrita
Major General
 
enrita's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i - Big turbos
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Italian in Sweden

Posts: 7,323
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post


Interesting...

I read a comment in a recently posted thread in a forum that we dare not speak of that Level10 upgrade kit is nothing more than the OEM rebuild kit + some shims....
dont care and i dont want to turn this thread in a Level 10 sucks thread . Time will tell and i will keep you guys posted. As far as i know its working pretty well for another forum member pushing 500 whp. As long as it lasts at 500 whp and shifts a tad faster i am happy with it.
__________________
07 335i AT - TD St.2 Turbos - COBB (Custom Cobb mapping by http://www.protuningfreaks.com/) - JB4G5 ISO - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - E85 Walbro - Injen Intake - Helix IC - Snow Stg. 3 - Stett CP - AR DPs - midpipes 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - Level 10 AT upgrade - Alpina AT Flash
enrita is offline   Sweden
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2011, 02:34 AM   #25
GeorgeSmooth
Lieutenant
 
GeorgeSmooth's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 E90 335i AT
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: South Africa

Posts: 568
iTrader: (0)

Good luck enrita. I reckon you will be able to run high boost with much more confidence now.
Looking at going this route as well although I have found a solution local to me that can add more clutches.
On about 550whp (mustang type) the gearbox has lasted about 1000km with slippage starting to become very evident even when using lower boost maps. I knew I was going to toast the transmission but had to leave evidence for when the build starts in regard to the weak points. Should be upgrading in the next month or two and will fill you guys in on the findings.
__________________
08 E90 335i AT RB Turbos -NX Wet Kit - Chiplogic Flash or Procede V5- M3 Diff - AE Exhaust- Forge Dv's - Helix Intercooler - AR DP's - P3 Boost Gauge - Vishnu Meth- Stett Chargepipe and CAI
09 C63
GeorgeSmooth is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2011, 02:59 AM   #26
enrita
Major General
 
enrita's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i - Big turbos
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Italian in Sweden

Posts: 7,323
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeSmooth View Post
Good luck enrita. I reckon you will be able to run high boost with much more confidence now.
Looking at going this route as well although I have found a solution local to me that can add more clutches.
On about 550whp (mustang type) the gearbox has lasted about 1000km with slippage starting to become very evident even when using lower boost maps. I knew I was going to toast the transmission but had to leave evidence for when the build starts in regard to the weak points. Should be upgrading in the next month or two and will fill you guys in on the findings.
good luck to you too yeah when you reach a certain power the transmission goes bad extremely quickly of course depending on the use you do .
I will add a trans cooler as well next spring.
__________________
07 335i AT - TD St.2 Turbos - COBB (Custom Cobb mapping by http://www.protuningfreaks.com/) - JB4G5 ISO - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - E85 Walbro - Injen Intake - Helix IC - Snow Stg. 3 - Stett CP - AR DPs - midpipes 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - Level 10 AT upgrade - Alpina AT Flash
enrita is offline   Sweden
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2011, 03:01 AM   #27
GeorgeSmooth
Lieutenant
 
GeorgeSmooth's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 E90 335i AT
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: South Africa

Posts: 568
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by enrita View Post
good luck to you too yeah when you reach a certain power the transmission goes bad extremely quickly of course depending on the use you do .
I will add a trans cooler as well next spring.
I am avoiding the trans cooler as I do not track the car but only drag race so I want to make sure the trans oil is up to operating temp rather quickly.
__________________
08 E90 335i AT RB Turbos -NX Wet Kit - Chiplogic Flash or Procede V5- M3 Diff - AE Exhaust- Forge Dv's - Helix Intercooler - AR DP's - P3 Boost Gauge - Vishnu Meth- Stett Chargepipe and CAI
09 C63
GeorgeSmooth is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2011, 04:47 AM   #28
amullo
E91 Diesel abuser
 
amullo's Avatar
 
Drives: E91 LCI 320da Msport
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Posts: 278
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Good luck with the upgrade! IŽll look forward to seeing how it does IRL pulls.
__________________
//amullo
-09 E91 LCI M-Sport 320d - Stage 1 (215hp/420nm/47MPG average)
-10 Ducati Multstrada 1200s
amullo is offline   Sweden
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2011, 06:51 AM   #29
Alan l.
Brigadier General
 
Alan l.'s Avatar
 
Drives: LCI M-Sport 550i
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: East Coast

Posts: 4,426
iTrader: (8)

Good luck man. I too saw a lot of horror stories about level10 back in my Subaru and E46 days. I went with IPT and also dropped over 4k on my "built" trans just to have it fail within 6 months. The owner John tried to blame it on my tune and I had to get another reputable shop to confirm it was trans failure before IPT owned up and got me another rebuilt trans. I had the works done to mine.... Valvebody, TQ converter, clutchpacks etc.... Trans shifted like shiet after the work to be honest. Never felt the same and I ended up selling the car and got a 6mt 335. I just hope level10 does a better job for you.

Alan
__________________

2014 LCI 550i M Sport | 3D Design Front Spoiler | BMW Performance Black Grills | BMW Performance Trunk Lip | BMW Performance Diffuser | Painted Reflectors | Wincos 30% Tint | Supersprint Exhaust | ACSSprings | MORR VS8.2 Rims 20x10R and 20x9F | Michelin PSS Tires |||More Photos of my car here|||
Alan l. is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2011, 09:08 AM   #30
enrita
Major General
 
enrita's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i - Big turbos
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Italian in Sweden

Posts: 7,323
iTrader: (0)

you can clearly know your car is slipping when it starts overrev during shifts. you can also clearly see it if you log. See picture

and hear it here:



Here against R1000 really fast 335 running same boost but with stock turbos. Car goes in limp mode because the gearbox does not want to shift anymore from 4th-5th gear

Attached Images
 
__________________
07 335i AT - TD St.2 Turbos - COBB (Custom Cobb mapping by http://www.protuningfreaks.com/) - JB4G5 ISO - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - E85 Walbro - Injen Intake - Helix IC - Snow Stg. 3 - Stett CP - AR DPs - midpipes 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - Level 10 AT upgrade - Alpina AT Flash

Last edited by enrita; 09-07-2011 at 09:26 AM.
enrita is offline   Sweden
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2011, 09:52 AM   #31
R1000K3
Major
 
R1000K3's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i MT
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA

Posts: 1,313
iTrader: (0)

It will become much more difficult for me (i.e. impossible) next time when you have a good working transmission :-)
R1000K3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2011, 09:54 AM   #32
enrita
Major General
 
enrita's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i - Big turbos
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Italian in Sweden

Posts: 7,323
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by R1000K3 View Post
It will become much more difficult for me (i.e. impossible) next time when you have a good working transmission :-)
I seriously hope so
__________________
07 335i AT - TD St.2 Turbos - COBB (Custom Cobb mapping by http://www.protuningfreaks.com/) - JB4G5 ISO - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - E85 Walbro - Injen Intake - Helix IC - Snow Stg. 3 - Stett CP - AR DPs - midpipes 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - Level 10 AT upgrade - Alpina AT Flash
enrita is offline   Sweden
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2011, 10:07 AM   #33
Jeff@TopGearSolutions
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Jeff@TopGearSolutions's Avatar
 
Drives: C6 Z06, GSXR-750, 09 335i
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: TopGearSolutions.com

Posts: 17,683
iTrader: (32)

Send a message via AIM to Jeff@TopGearSolutions
This is when your trans cant handle power

Jeff@TopGearSolutions is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2011, 10:10 AM   #34
Skydive
First Lieutenant
 
Skydive's Avatar
 
Drives: '07 E90 335i
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Posts: 300
iTrader: (0)

Good luck! I have had more than my fair share of experience with Level10 and the 5HP19FLA in my Audi. Perhaps Level10, IPT, and 517 have all "figured it out" in the past couple of years. For your sake, I hope so. My comments and a summary of experiences with these three companies can be found elsewhere in these forums. $4,000 is an awful lot of money to drop on prayer that something has changed about business practices and capability.

In all candor, I hope your excitement is not dampened by disappointment of failure and discomfort.
__________________
DD: 2007 BMW 335i Sedan
Weekends: 2004 Porsche 911 C4S
Skydive is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2011, 12:05 PM   #35
rismo
Captain
 
Drives: BMW E92 335
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Europe

Posts: 840
iTrader: (0)

Just wondering is it already clear what Level10 exactly adjusts to the gearbox? And do they have the right software available?
__________________
BMW 335 E92 08 - Full options - RIP
BMW 335 E92 09 - Full options - DKG - Procede Rev 3 - Vishnu Meth and Chargepipe - Forge Diverter Valves - Vishnu Flex Fuel Kit- AR Catless DP - Afe Intake - Helix IC - Ar Oil Cooler - PPK Water Cooler - M3 Suspension - JRZ RS1 Shocks - Eibach Pro Springs - Drexler LSD - BMW IS Exhaust - EBC Yellow Brake Pads - Stainless Steel Brake Lines - M101 Wheels - Michelin PSS - M-Tech Body - M-Strutbar
rismo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2011, 12:45 PM   #36
Brey335i
Brigadier General
 
Brey335i's Avatar
 
Drives: e46 ///M3
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Austin, TX

Posts: 4,737
iTrader: (11)

What I don't understand is how no one knows exactly what gets done to the transmission. If I were to spend 4K I'd want to know details
Brey335i is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2011, 12:47 PM   #37
Skydive
First Lieutenant
 
Skydive's Avatar
 
Drives: '07 E90 335i
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Posts: 300
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rismo123 View Post
Just wondering is it already clear what Level10 exactly adjusts to the gearbox? And do they have the right software available?
Level10 does not work with software at all, nor do they claim to do so. They are a simple transmission shop. As of a couple of years ago, their claimed "process" for a full kit performance build of the 5HP19FLA was really just an OE rebuild, plus a half dozen hardware store washers being used to shim two valve body springs. They also "adjust" the stock torque converter by trimming the impeller shaft with a band saw. All of this is pretty simple stuff that could be done by anyone who is comfortable rebuilding a transmission, if you really wanted it that way, for the cost of a standard rebuild, plus about $2.00 in parts, and less than one hour in labor. (Don't forget the pressure wash and rattle can paint for the torque converter.)

The truth is, the modifications don't really do anything to enhance the performance or torque capacity of the transmission beyond making the shifts less prone to standard "comfort slip", which will prolong the life of most any automatic transmission, because friction material is then subjected to load less of the time. The side effect is that the standard slip engagement won't slip as much, for as long, and your shifts will feel like collisions.

...but the materials will still wear, and they will still break down. It might take a bit longer, but the end result will be largely the same.

Good luck.
__________________
DD: 2007 BMW 335i Sedan
Weekends: 2004 Porsche 911 C4S
Skydive is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2011, 12:56 PM   #38
enrita
Major General
 
enrita's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i - Big turbos
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Italian in Sweden

Posts: 7,323
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydive View Post
Level10 does not work with software at all, nor do they claim to do so. They are a simple transmission shop. As of a couple of years ago, their "process" for a full kit performance build of the 5HP19FLA was really just an OE rebuild, plus a half dozen hardware store washers being used to shim two valve body springs. They also "adjust" the stock torque converter by trimming the impeller shaft with a band saw All of this is pretty simple stuff that could be done by anyone who is comfortable rebuilding a transmission, if you really wanted it that way, for the cost of a standard rebuild, plus about $2.00 in parts, and less than one hour in labor. (Don't forget the pressure wash and rattle can paint for the torque converter.)

The truth is, the modifications don't really do anything to enhance the performance or torque capacity of the transmission beyond making the shifts less prone to standard "comfort slip", which will prolong the life of most any automatic transmission, because friction material is then subjected to load less of the time. The side effect is that the standard slip engagement won't slip as much, for as long, and your shifts will feel like collisions.

...but the materials will still wear, and they will still break down. It might take a bit longer, but the end result will be largely the same.

Good luck.
i hope they double the washers this time so the trans will hold better this time . I would prefer to keep this kind of comments outside my thread.
My trans will speak for itselft and Level 10 . I am sure my testing will help other people take the right decision when it comes the time to upgrade the trans.
__________________
07 335i AT - TD St.2 Turbos - COBB (Custom Cobb mapping by http://www.protuningfreaks.com/) - JB4G5 ISO - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - E85 Walbro - Injen Intake - Helix IC - Snow Stg. 3 - Stett CP - AR DPs - midpipes 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - Level 10 AT upgrade - Alpina AT Flash
enrita is offline   Sweden
0
Reply With Quote
      09-08-2011, 10:10 AM   #39
enrita
Major General
 
enrita's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i - Big turbos
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Italian in Sweden

Posts: 7,323
iTrader: (0)

updated picture 2nd post. Gearbox on its way back :-)
__________________
07 335i AT - TD St.2 Turbos - COBB (Custom Cobb mapping by http://www.protuningfreaks.com/) - JB4G5 ISO - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - E85 Walbro - Injen Intake - Helix IC - Snow Stg. 3 - Stett CP - AR DPs - midpipes 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - Level 10 AT upgrade - Alpina AT Flash
enrita is offline   Sweden
0
Reply With Quote
      09-08-2011, 11:38 AM   #40
cvc 22349a
Colonel
 
cvc 22349a's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: SF Bay

Posts: 2,231
iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by enrita View Post
good luck to you too yeah when you reach a certain power the transmission goes bad extremely quickly of course depending on the use you do .
I will add a trans cooler as well next spring.
Have you found an aftermarket trans cooler?
__________________
2007 E90 335i, TiAg, 6AT, ZPP, ZSP, ZCW, 6FL, HD
Quaife lsd, ETS fmic, GIAC s/w, Dinan intake/exhaust/oc, KW/M3 susp, Apex Arc 8, Mich PSS
cvc 22349a is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-08-2011, 11:44 AM   #41
enrita
Major General
 
enrita's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i - Big turbos
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Italian in Sweden

Posts: 7,323
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cvc 22349a View Post
Have you found an aftermarket trans cooler?
i am waiting for that till next spring. season is finished now.
Anyway its an easy fix with the transcooler. YOu can just put one in front of the IC or the AR oil cooler driver side. I will most likely get a setrab.
__________________
07 335i AT - TD St.2 Turbos - COBB (Custom Cobb mapping by http://www.protuningfreaks.com/) - JB4G5 ISO - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - E85 Walbro - Injen Intake - Helix IC - Snow Stg. 3 - Stett CP - AR DPs - midpipes 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - Level 10 AT upgrade - Alpina AT Flash
enrita is offline   Sweden
0
Reply With Quote
      09-08-2011, 12:18 PM   #42
Will335i
The Engineer
 
Drives: AW 07' 335i
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Natchez MS/St. Louis MO

Posts: 282
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2007 335i e92  [0.50]
From the sounds of it this is a full swap right? Do they offer rebuild kits for us DIYers? I would give a shot at doing it myself but granted it looks slightly more complicated than the 727 I am rebuilding.
Will335i is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-08-2011, 12:25 PM   #43
enrita
Major General
 
enrita's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i - Big turbos
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Italian in Sweden

Posts: 7,323
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will335i View Post
From the sounds of it this is a full swap right? Do they offer rebuild kits for us DIYers? I would give a shot at doing it myself but granted it looks slightly more complicated than the 727 I am rebuilding.
dont know, give them a call
__________________
07 335i AT - TD St.2 Turbos - COBB (Custom Cobb mapping by http://www.protuningfreaks.com/) - JB4G5 ISO - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - E85 Walbro - Injen Intake - Helix IC - Snow Stg. 3 - Stett CP - AR DPs - midpipes 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - Level 10 AT upgrade - Alpina AT Flash
enrita is offline   Sweden
0
Reply With Quote
      09-08-2011, 12:31 PM   #44
techlogik
Major
 
Drives: 07 335i Coupe
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: FL

Posts: 1,339
iTrader: (1)

Yes, back in the B5 S4 days, there were a few people that did a Level 10 automatic upgrade to handle more power. The auto was limited to like 300whp. Which we were doing well over that Stage 3.

One guy had his transmission lock up after a few thousand miles, and he had to send it back again for them to repair and rebuilt it once more. Cost/time/effort etc...not sure what happened after that.

But Level 10 is hit/miss.
__________________
SOLD: 2007 E92 335i Space Gray. Loaded. 6AT | GIAC Stage 1 w/map switcher 330rwhp/332tq | CX Racing IC | Drop-in Filter | Eibach Pro/Koni Yellows | M6 Reps | Toyo Proxes IV Tires, 235/35/19F-265/30/19R
techlogik is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:59 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST