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      09-08-2011, 12:56 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techlogik View Post
Yes, back in the B5 S4 days, there were a few people that did a Level 10 automatic upgrade to handle more power. The auto was limited to like 300whp. Which we were doing well over that Stage 3.

One guy had his transmission lock up after a few thousand miles, and he had to send it back again for them to repair and rebuilt it once more. Cost/time/effort etc...not sure what happened after that.

But Level 10 is hit/miss.
LOL... I'm pretty sure I was "that one guy", because I was vocal about it at the time. In fact, there were at least three of us that had "go backs" with Level10. It happened to me twice. I gave up on Level10 and tried another vendor, who was not dishonest, but was still unable to build a transmission that worked reliably at the power levels I was achieving.
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      09-08-2011, 12:59 PM   #46
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From the sounds of it this is a full swap right? Do they offer rebuild kits for us DIYers? I would give a shot at doing it myself but granted it looks slightly more complicated than the 727 I am rebuilding.
They can't. The game would end. You'd feel pretty silly paying several thousand dollars for $2.00 worth of washers and a standard ZF rebuild kit, wouldn't you?

The "machine work" if there is any, is confined to the torque converter, which I believe they will sell separately. (If not, at least one of the other two vendors mentioned in another of my posts on the subject will.)
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      09-08-2011, 01:12 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techlogik View Post
Yes, back in the B5 S4 days, there were a few people that did a Level 10 automatic upgrade to handle more power. The auto was limited to like 300whp. Which we were doing well over that Stage 3.

One guy had his transmission lock up after a few thousand miles, and he had to send it back again for them to repair and rebuilt it once more. Cost/time/effort etc...not sure what happened after that.

But Level 10 is hit/miss.
He's already sent in his transmission, so second hand comments about negative experiences a decade ago, aren't needed.
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      09-08-2011, 01:23 PM   #48
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He's already sent in his transmission, so second hand comments about negative experiences a decade ago, aren't needed.
Understood...

...but he's not the only one reading.

I hope Level10 has changed their ways and improved their processes. Even from a completely selfish point of view I would LOVE it if Level10 (or IPT, or 517), would get the 6HP21 figured out. I own one, have no real options because of a physical limitation, and am still a fan of the modding game, despite my best judgment, and I'll eventually want to go beyond 450 horsepower. (I will no longer blaze trails, however. It's too expensive, and it makes a hobby into a battle.)

In the meantime I STRONGLY recommend that people take a "wait and see" attitude with respect to Level10 and performance rebuilds of these transmissions in general. Level10 has a long and distinguished reputation of failure when it comes to the ZF gearbox. At the very least, do yourself a favor and take a ride in a car equipped with the modded valvebody. This modification completely changes the character of the car, and I would say that most people would find that change inappropriate for a car that is used for commuting, or other comfort driving.

-Michael
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      09-08-2011, 01:41 PM   #49
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Understood...

...but he's not the only one reading.

I hope Level10 has changed their ways and improved their processes. Even from a completely selfish point of view I would LOVE it if Level10 (or IPT, or 517), would get the 6HP21 figured out. I own one, have no real options because of a physical limitation, and am still a fan of the modding game, despite my best judgment, and I'll eventually want to go beyond 450 horsepower. (I will no longer blaze trails, however. It's too expensive, and it makes a hobby into a battle.)

In the meantime I STRONGLY recommend that people take a "wait and see" attitude with respect to Level10 and performance rebuilds of these transmissions in general. Level10 has a long and distinguished reputation of failure when it comes to the ZF gearbox. At the very least, do yourself a favor and take a ride in a car equipped with the modded valvebody. This modification completely changes the character of the car, and I would say that most people would find that change inappropriate for a car that is used for commuting, or other comfort driving.

-Michael
any pics of your old B5 upgraded Tranny with washers?
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      09-08-2011, 01:45 PM   #50
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any pics of your old B5 upgraded Tranny with washers?
You will likely find them if you search the archives at audiworld.com.
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      09-08-2011, 01:51 PM   #51
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You will likely find them if you search the archives at audiworld.com.
Well until you post proof please stop repeating over and over the same things.. as said before i do not want this kind of comments in my thread since i will post MY RESULTS HERE on this tranny upgrade.
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      09-08-2011, 02:06 PM   #52
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Well until you post proof please stop repeating over and over the same things.. as said before i do not want this kind of comments in my thread since i will post MY RESULTS HERE on this tranny upgrade.
I suggest you think about what I'm saying, why I'm saying it, and the open forum where I am saying it.

In the meantime, I will respect your wish and remain silent, even if I strongly disagree, and question your motivation. (Frankly I'm not sure why you react so strongly to my sharing my own relevant experience, particularly when you have none of your own beyond phone calls and promises.)

As for proof, the entire record of events has been well documented on Audiworld.com for all to see. Since I have no dog in the fight, I don't really care to take the time to search and dig up all the posts for those who may be interested in the benefit found there Someone else can do that, and link here if they're interested. (The search may be a chore though, since the database was migrated from Kawf to vBulletin some time ago. I don't know if the transition included a proper re-index.) In the meantime there are people who have posted here independently who remember my struggle with Level10.

Once again, good luck. I really do hope your results are good, and that you find your money is well spent. If your box holds up to 500+ whp over time and maintains daily driveability, I'll probably do something similar down the road.

-Michael
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      09-08-2011, 03:00 PM   #53
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Looking at 1:34 of this video, it occured to me that it might be possible for one to swap out the clutch packs, valve body, torque converter, or any other weak components from the 6hp19 which we have (clearly rated at 400nm, or 295 ft/lbs), for their much stronger counter parts in the 6hp28(700nm, or 516 ft/lbs!!), 6hp32/34?

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      09-08-2011, 03:03 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115 View Post
Looking at 1:34 of this video, it occured to me that it might be possible for one to swap out the clutch packs, valve body, torque converter, or any other weak components from the 6hp19 which we have (clearly rated at 400nm, or 295 ft/lbs), for their much stronger counter parts in the 6hp28(700nm, or 516 ft/lbs!!), 6hp32/34?

we have the 6hp21.
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      09-08-2011, 03:31 PM   #55
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we have the 6hp21.
No sir, 330I's & 335I's have the 6hp19 (250ft/lbs-295lbs): http://www.realoem.com/bmw/partgrp.d...50&hg=24&fg=05
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      09-08-2011, 03:34 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115 View Post
Looking at 1:34 of this video, it occured to me that it might be possible for one to swap out the clutch packs, valve body, torque converter, or any other weak components from the 6hp19 which we have (clearly rated at 400nm, or 295 ft/lbs), for their much stronger counter parts in the 6hp28(700nm, or 516 ft/lbs!!), 6hp32/34?


...and interesting thought! I'm not sure.

I do know that I asked similar questions with regard to the 5HP19 and the 5HP24 found in the RS6, snd even bought one to explore. There were dimensional challenges, among others... but it would make for interesting research. I doubt very much that a valve body swap would be a simple solution, without also modifying the transmission control code and DME software.
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      09-08-2011, 03:35 PM   #57
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6hp19Z or TU = 6hp21
found the thread: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46224
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      09-08-2011, 03:43 PM   #58
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No sir, 330I's & 335I's have the 6hp19 (250ft/lbs-295lbs)
Apparently we have the 21, which is the same as a much revised 19 in BMW nomenclature.

See this thread:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ighlight=6HP21
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      09-08-2011, 03:45 PM   #59
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Have looked into the swap, discussed it with a ZF engineer, no fit.... :-(
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      09-08-2011, 03:46 PM   #60
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Have looked into the swap, discussed it with a ZF engineer, no fit.... :-(
with the 6hp28 completely or only parts? that would have been the best... you can find the 6hp28 really cheap in germany....
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      09-08-2011, 03:52 PM   #61
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6hp19Z or TU = 6hp21
found the thread: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46224
Believe what you want, either way, its still 400nm max torque for both See Page 4:

http://www.zf.com/na/content/media/u...21_Catalog.pdf
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      09-08-2011, 03:55 PM   #62
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with the 6hp28 completely or only parts? that would have been the best... you can find the 6hp28 really cheap in germany....
+1! 6hp28 torque converter, and clutch pack swap alone would go a long way in solving high torque issues.
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      09-08-2011, 03:59 PM   #63
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with the 6hp28 completely or only parts? that would have been the best... you can find the 6hp28 really cheap in germany....
The box will fit, no possibility to get the box hooked up with the DME. At least not for my contacts. BMW has to do this.
The parts itself will not fit.

The way i'm heading is to custom (re) build te internals. If it becomes a succes we might bring it to the market. The result will be both hard and software. Start will be around q4, all testing should be ready somewhere next summer. Outcome unpredictable.
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      09-08-2011, 04:00 PM   #64
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Believe what you want, either way, its still 400nm max torque for both See Page 4:

http://www.zf.com/na/content/media/u...21_Catalog.pdf
nobody is contesting the 400nm max torque. We dont have the 19. We have the 19Z which is exactly the same as the 21 which is the official ZF code for the updated model 6hp19.
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      09-08-2011, 04:00 PM   #65
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Have looked into the swap, discussed it with a ZF engineer, no fit.... :-(
I just don't understand how a 6hp26 from a 335D, can just be swapped into a 335I? Shouldn't even run into any programming issues. Same DME.
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      09-08-2011, 04:02 PM   #66
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+1! 6hp28 torque converter, and clutch pack swap alone would go a long way in solving high torque issues.
If the 6HP28 is dimensionally different than is the 6HP21/19Z there is no way a torque converter swap would be feasible. The question is, are they different? I don't know.
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