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      09-12-2011, 01:44 PM   #1
import36
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2E84 - How do I test the electric water pump?

hey guys...

i just started experiencing an overheating issue yesterday, after the car sat for a good two weeks while waiting to get my headlights back from OSS. i started the car twice during that period and let it run for 15-20min...and there were no issues at all. car ran perfectly before sending the headlights out.

i scanned with a BT tool and found the following code:

2E84 Electrical cooling pump, communication
Error will not cause a warning light
Error is not currently present
Test conditions have been completed
Timeout


my question is if it's possible that i blew a fuse or something that would cause the electric pump not to turn on/operate? if so, where would this be located? i went into the fuse panel in the glove box and checked a bunch there, but didn't find any that were blown. there are no other codes for the water pump present, just the one 2E84. i just don't know how to test the pump for a bad circuit.
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      09-12-2011, 03:37 PM   #2
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Last water pump failure:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=573031

It may be the wiring at the pump has shorted, or it may be the pump, are you still in warranty? If so get it towed to the shop, if not the pump is quite expensive.
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      09-12-2011, 03:56 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glim View Post
Last water pump failure:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=573031

It may be the wiring at the pump has shorted, or it may be the pump, are you still in warranty? If so get it towed to the shop, if not the pump is quite expensive.
yeah i've read thru pretty much every water pump related article i could find on here....but no one's answered the question if there is a fuse or something linked to the water pump that could blow and cause it not to get power.

technically my car is still under warranty til FEB 2012...but due to my mods i'm 100% my dealership won't replace it as warranty work....they're super strict.
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      09-12-2011, 10:07 PM   #4
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Check fuses F07 or F09. They are 30 Amp or 40 Amp fuses, depending on whether the water pump is 200 Watts or 400 Watts.

Also check fuses 80 and 33.

Also try an electrical reset- by disconnecting battery negative terminal, waiting for 10 minutes and then reconnecting it.

Last edited by queensfield; 09-13-2011 at 12:34 AM. Reason: added couple more fuses to check
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      09-12-2011, 10:57 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queensfield View Post
Check fuses F07 or F09. They are 30 Amp or 40 Amp fuses, depending on whether the water pump is 200 Watts or 400 Watts.

Also check fuses 80 and 33
What symbol is it?

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3250411
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      09-12-2011, 11:24 PM   #6
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F07 or F09 (depending on whether it's a N52 or N54 engine) don't have a symbol- they are for engine electronics and they are in the electrical wiring between battery terminal and electric pump.
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      09-13-2011, 05:27 AM   #7
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The BT Scan tool can test the pump for operation. I think the issue you are having is the pump electronics, which are on the backside of the pump motor are starting to fail. When I replaced my pump I got the same code you did but it was after I had disconnected the old pump for removal. I resent the trouble codes prior to installing the new pump.

The electronics start to overheat and degrade, eventually failing. It took my car almost 10,000 miles between the first instances the pump was running slow until it failed. 10,000 miles for me is about 3 months of driving, most people it is more than a year.

This is the dilemma with the pump. It works fine, may throw a code or two once and awhile, but continues to operate. The pump alone costs $400 not including installation, so it is a hard decison to make whether to replace it before it fails or not.
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      09-13-2011, 07:13 AM   #8
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thanks for the replies everyone. going to check the fuses you mentioned....and see if i can figure out how to test the pump using the BT Tool. if all else fails...i'll be having the car towed to the dealership.
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      09-13-2011, 09:08 AM   #9
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failed to mention my car only has about 18k miles on it. pretty premature for a pump failure i suppose.
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      09-13-2011, 09:17 AM   #10
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One poster had a failure at 9k but has been fine since.
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      09-13-2011, 09:21 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glim View Post
One poster had a failure at 9k but has been fine since.
wow.....guess anything's possible with a mechanical/electrical component. i'll be sure to update the thread once i get things sorted out. nice to have a base of information to search through.
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      09-13-2011, 01:53 PM   #12
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How exactly did the overheating manifest itself? Yellow or red dings?
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      09-13-2011, 02:07 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queensfield View Post
How exactly did the overheating manifest itself? Yellow or red dings?
it started off as the yellow engine running hot one.....then less than 30sec later turned to the red your engine has overheated stop engine message.

you mentioned the F07 and F09 fuses...i take it those aren't located in the fuse panel behind the glove box?
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      09-13-2011, 04:19 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ENINTY View Post
This is the dilemma with the pump. It works fine, may throw a code or two once and awhile, but continues to operate. The pump alone costs $400 not including installation, so it is a hard decison to make whether to replace it before it fails or not.
I think it is worth it to replace water pump prematurely at the first sign of failing. Tow bill alone costs $100-200 and risk of engine damage from overheat is great. Being stranded in the middle of nowhere or on a highway is simply dangerous.
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      09-14-2011, 06:14 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by import36 View Post
it started off as the yellow engine running hot one.....then less than 30sec later turned to the red your engine has overheated stop engine message.

you mentioned the F07 and F09 fuses...i take it those aren't located in the fuse panel behind the glove box?
No, not behind the glove box. They are in the engine compartment fuse panel. Also, if you have a multimeter, and car is up, try reading the voltages to the water pump electronics. Since it is directly powered, you should read 12V at pin 1 and a ground at pin 3 or pin 4, depending on the model year.
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      09-14-2011, 08:15 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queensfield View Post
No, not behind the glove box. They are in the engine compartment fuse panel. Also, if you have a multimeter, and car is up, try reading the voltages to the water pump electronics. Since it is directly powered, you should read 12V at pin 1 and a ground at pin 3 or pin 4, depending on the model year.
ok...found the F07 fuse in the box that houses the DME...its a 50amp fuse for the electric water pump. unfortunately it wasn't blown. car is just sitting on the ground in the garage....so i'm not gonna bother with trying to get under there and testing the voltages. having her towed to the dealership tomorrow.

thanks for the suggestions queensfield
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      09-14-2011, 11:12 PM   #17
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At least you tried with the fuse check. Perhaps, you can ask dealer to check out the voltages. If it is a loose or dirty connector issue (although I doubt it is), then the solution is simple and it shouldn't cost much (unless they try to fleece or dupe you). My feeling is that the pump driver integrated with the pump is dead and there is no way to replace the driver alone, at least to my knowledge. The failed electronics is likely to be the dc-ac inverter or controller IC that controls the motor propeller speed and communicates with the DME. While you are changing the pump, it makes sense to change the thermostat as well and to check the health of coolant temperature sensor (the dealer should do this, but I don't have much experience in dealing with them). Lastly, you can ask for your old water pump and do a postmortem on it by supplying 12 volts externally and diagnosing what went wrong (I love doing that and can spend hours on it). Good luck to you- you have a great car and these things are bound to happen. Let us know how it went and how much it costed (if you are willing to disclose).
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      09-15-2011, 04:52 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JunkStory View Post
I think it is worth it to replace water pump prematurely at the first sign of failing. Tow bill alone costs $100-200 and risk of engine damage from overheat is great. Being stranded in the middle of nowhere or on a highway is simply dangerous.
For the average BMW owner the first sign of failure is an overheated engine. Unless you regularly scan your car you'll never know it is failing. The only reason I knew my pump was suspect was because I scanned my car with my BT scan tool during another repair/oil change. Considering the average E9x gets scanned at the OCI of 15 - 17K miles, or at the 30K interval for the "car on lift" inspection, the pump can easily fail in between scans.

Also, considering a dealer will charge $1,000 for a water pump replacement, how many owners are going to be hard to convince they need to replace the water pump, when the SA comes to them and says the tech found an error code for the water pump, but the car has never shown any signs of overheating (there is no water temp gauge to so a temporary bump in water temperature) and is running perfectly?
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      09-15-2011, 08:45 AM   #19
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2E84 problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by import36 View Post
ok...found the F07 fuse in the box that houses the DME...its a 50amp fuse for the electric water pump. unfortunately it wasn't blown. car is just sitting on the ground in the garage....so i'm not gonna bother with trying to get under there and testing the voltages. having her towed to the dealership tomorrow.

thanks for the suggestions queensfield

It's the box unit on top of the battery that is fused.
The fuses (if what we call them) cannot be changed. What I did I disconnect the red cable (to the far left), removed the black connector on the red cable and plug the cable to the next available power connection on the right. I have the 2E84 dme code after I shorted the circuit while installing the PWM kit. Either you reconnect the red cable or change the whole box unit. Hope this helps.

Last edited by dyong; 09-15-2011 at 08:51 AM. Reason: More detail explanation
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      09-17-2011, 12:41 AM   #20
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Fuses F07 or F09, depending on N52 or N54, are in the engine compartment fuse panel, and not on top of the battery power distribution panel. F07 and F09 are located on the passenger side near the microfilter once you pop the hood open. The black plastic cover is removable and contains F07 or F09, which are the fuses for the water pump (an exact same black plastic cover is on the driver side underneath which is the brake fluid).

The power distribution panel on top of the battery contains fuses for electronic power steering etc and these are pretty hefty fuses (100 Amp and up).
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      09-19-2011, 03:12 PM   #21
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Got the dreaded 2e84 about a month ago and then two weeks after that got a 2e81 code...Clear them both and one week later while driving out of the blue the yellow temp gauge comes on and then 3 seconds later the red temp gauge and antifreeze pouring out of the tank Anyone getting these codes will mean a water pump and thermostat replacement!
Parts with a discount cost about 610 bucks from BMW, no discount it can cost as high as 750 which is robbery!
DIY cost 610 paying someone labor 250-300

Last edited by cwn23; 09-19-2011 at 04:14 PM.
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      09-19-2011, 06:22 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwn23 View Post
Got the dreaded 2e84 about a month ago and then two weeks after that got a 2e81 code...Clear them both and one week later while driving out of the blue the yellow temp gauge comes on and then 3 seconds later the red temp gauge and antifreeze pouring out of the tank Anyone getting these codes will mean a water pump and thermostat replacement!
Parts with a discount cost about 610 bucks from BMW, no discount it can cost as high as 750 which is robbery!
DIY cost 610 paying someone labor 250-300
Yep, this is one of the reasons why I bought a BT Tool (thanks ENINTY for the tip). I scan the car monthly to look for this fault code, then will replace my water pump promptly.
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