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      09-28-2011, 05:28 PM   #1
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Alignment?

Just got my koni yellows and h
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      09-28-2011, 05:30 PM   #2
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Wow stupid app...


Does not having an alignment right away make the handling suck?

And how much does a alignment run usually?
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      09-28-2011, 06:00 PM   #3
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179 lifetime at firestone
150 lifetime at NTB
180 1 time at BMW dealers

from experience... (best to worst)

dealer (i believe the dealer resets the steering sensors and other dont or cant)
firestone
ntb (worst since most shops cant even do them because they dont have the program for BMW)
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      09-28-2011, 06:35 PM   #4
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Okay thanks s lot, also the shop I went to he told me when I get alignment go as most positive camber as possible without it rubbing

Is this correct/good?
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      09-28-2011, 10:36 PM   #5
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Anybody know the answer to that?

(my post right above this one)
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      09-29-2011, 11:10 AM   #6
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They shop will have the proper specs, but lowered you will probably end up about -.7-1deg neg camber in front with -1.5-1.9 in rear. This is fine. You can alter your handling by adjust things a bit. The front toe should end up about 3/32 toe in.

Less negative camber is better for tire wear but worse for handling.

And yoes your original question is valid...after an install with no alignment it will be off and need a good alignment to drive correctly and handle well. I would not drive it far w/o a fresh alignment. Pay for a good one that includes the steering angle re-set if you model calls for it.
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      09-29-2011, 11:32 AM   #7
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Like someone said above, if you get the alignment, you have to get your steering sensor reset as well... I went to a Griffith Brothers and they reset my wheel specs to factory and was just about $100 for alignment with steering sensor reset.

Would of went to Firestone but the ones near me don't have the equipment to do BMWs and the Firestone that does is like almost an hour away. I might start making the trip though bc lifetime will save me some money.
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      09-29-2011, 12:42 PM   #8
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To have the BEST straight line tracking. Should the Toe be set at ZERO at all four corners? Or what's the best setup for our alignments to track as stable and straight as possible?
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      09-29-2011, 02:33 PM   #9
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The shop I go to only works on European vehicles and they told me they send all there customers down the road to Geralds..

So basically have them set it to what they think is right? And I wonder if they have the thing to reset the sensors and all.
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      09-29-2011, 03:39 PM   #10
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Btw I Do a lot of "spirited" driving so what ever would be best for that while not wearing my tires out so fast.
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      09-29-2011, 03:39 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F1fletch View Post
They shop will have the proper specs, but lowered you will probably end up about -.7-1deg neg camber in front with -1.5-1.9 in rear. This is fine. You can alter your handling by adjust things a bit. The front toe should end up about 3/32 toe in.

Less negative camber is better for tire wear but worse for handling.

And yoes your original question is valid...after an install with no alignment it will be off and need a good alignment to drive correctly and handle well. I would not drive it far w/o a fresh alignment. Pay for a good one that includes the steering angle re-set if you model calls for it.
Where do you get the estimates of the negative camber? First-hand experience?

Also, Can an alignment straighten out negative camber? And can it fix toe-in? I keep getting different answers to that question.

I bought a set of Koni yellows and H&R sport but now I'm worried that the negative camber that I have when I install them will ruin my tires, forcing my to have to buy camber plates and bolts. Are plates and bolts the only way to reduce camber?
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      09-29-2011, 09:36 PM   #12
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Yes first hand experience with LOTS of performance cars and three trips with the "is" so far to Mike at the alignment shop. To answer your question, the alignment rack will allow the technician to mnake adjustments for Camber and Toe F&R. The Caster is NOT adjustable. When they plug in your year and model they will get a set of specs and attempt to adjust to those.

Depending how far you lower you will NOT need additional adjustments for Camber. In front as long as you don't go beyond about a degree negative you will be fine on tire wear, just swap left to right and stay on top of tire pressures. However you slice it there will be some tire wear with negative camber it is just a fact, you have to draw a middle line with these cars since they are negative and wear tires anyway. Mike at McCoy was suprised my alignment came in so good considering I am lowered.

As far as the earlier question about toe. Specs are I believe about 1/8 to 3/32 toe in for both front and rear. Setting toe at zero definately helps some with turn in and helps with tire wear as well. Toe set "in" helps with stability in a straight line. Setting zero front and rear will not hurt anything and you should be able to feel a slight difference in handling. So far I am about 1/16 to 3/32 toe in F&R so far and it feels good and this is within specs.

Hope this helps.
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      09-29-2011, 10:22 PM   #13
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Yeah so you are saying camber is not adjustable? That, I've been told was adjustable.
And I couldn't quite understand. Can you remove toe in with an alignment?

What rear negative camber are you at with H&R sports?
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      09-30-2011, 05:45 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sn0pea View Post
Yeah so you are saying camber is not adjustable? That, I've been told was adjustable.
And I couldn't quite understand. Can you remove toe in with an alignment?

What rear negative camber are you at with H&R sports?
front camber is adjustable by drilling the little guide pin on top of the strut out. rear camber you have to turn the eccentric bolt on the lower control arm. you can remove toe in the front by adjusting the tie rods. adjusting toe you have to turn the bolt on the rear toe arm (its the one closest to the diff). You can also get an adjustable toe arm if you need more adjustment. if you car is extremely lowered you may need rear camber links and front camber plates. I ran -1.05 in the front and tire wore evenly.
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      09-30-2011, 06:50 AM   #15
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So it is slightly adjustable!
Extremely lowered is a relative term. Do you consider eibach pro to be extreme?
Were you able to get your rear camber to below 1 degree through stock adjustment with h and R on
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      09-30-2011, 09:43 AM   #16
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What happens if they don't reset your steering sensor? Will your steering wheel feel like it's pulling to either side even after the alignment?

Curious because I've had two alignments done. One by an Indy shop and another by the dealers, and my steering still pulls to the left a but when the steering wheel is straight....

TIA

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Originally Posted by intensee92 View Post
Like someone said above, if you get the alignment, you have to get your steering sensor reset as well... I went to a Griffith Brothers and they reset my wheel specs to factory and was just about $100 for alignment with steering sensor reset.

Would of went to Firestone but the ones near me don't have the equipment to do BMWs and the Firestone that does is like almost an hour away. I might start making the trip though bc lifetime will save me some money.
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      09-30-2011, 10:43 AM   #17
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The steering wheel sensor talks to other sensors that deal with the traction control, ABS, etc. It senses the angle of the front wheels when doing the math for the other sensors. It won't effect your steering wheel position. Alignment will, as you are referring to a pull to the left. Things that effect a pull to the left or right are: Caster (which is not adjustable) severe camber difference (car will pull to side standing straight up), Toe being way off etc..

BMW's are known for being quite sensitive to road conditions and will pull to the left or right slightly depending on road crown.

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      09-30-2011, 01:35 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F1fletch View Post
The steering wheel sensor talks to other sensors that deal with the traction control, ABS, etc. It senses the angle of the front wheels when doing the math for the other sensors. It won't effect your steering wheel position. Alignment will, as you are referring to a pull to the left. Things that effect a pull to the left or right are: Caster (which is not adjustable) severe camber difference (car will pull to side standing straight up), Toe being way off etc..

BMW's are known for being quite sensitive to road conditions and will pull to the left or right slightly depending on road crown.

Fletch
Maybe BMW is Gay and is the reason the car can not track Straight. LOL!!! Damn BMW!
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      09-30-2011, 03:00 PM   #19
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Yes Camber is Adjustable

Castor is not. Removing the pin gives you a bit of adjustment. With spirited driving moving the front closer to 1 degree negative with zero toe will give you big grins and little additional tire wear.

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      09-30-2011, 03:44 PM   #20
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Thanks for the reply!

So I have the spec sheet from the dealer after my second alignment. All looks within spec except the left rear camber, it's off from the right rear by -0.5 degrees. The dealer said that's okay......

As far as the caster goes, that I have no idea what it looks like or where it's located. Can you please kindly explain to me how and why that would affect the pull? My car pulls 'slightly' to the left when the steering wheel is perfectly straight from inside the cabin. So to straighten the car, my steering wheel has to be about 1/2" turned to the right. But then it will eventually also stray to the right if it's held in that position for a few seconds. This has been tested on a newly paved, straight as it can be, road.

I've only noticed this after the PSS10 upgrade, everything was fine when it was on ZSP suspension.

I appreciate the help.

TIA

Quote:
Originally Posted by F1fletch View Post
The steering wheel sensor talks to other sensors that deal with the traction control, ABS, etc. It senses the angle of the front wheels when doing the math for the other sensors. It won't effect your steering wheel position. Alignment will, as you are referring to a pull to the left. Things that effect a pull to the left or right are: Caster (which is not adjustable) severe camber difference (car will pull to side standing straight up), Toe being way off etc..

BMW's are known for being quite sensitive to road conditions and will pull to the left or right slightly depending on road crown.

Fletch
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