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      10-07-2011, 09:32 AM   #23
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Whatever Harold. You really are amazing.
I'll trust that the rest of the community unserstands that I know how to properly bed in a set of pads.
BTW, for those interested, these pads were the et500 pads on the RacingBrake 2 piece rotors, which I ran for about a week.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Autowerks View Post
Most people think they know how to bed in brake pads and rotors, but they really don't and they wonder why their brake pads are noisy.

Your video did not show your install nor how the pads and rotors looked after bedding in so I can't determined if the bedding procedure was properly done.

The brake pad paste we recommend below needs to be applied as a thin coat not only to the back side of the brake pad backing plate where it meets the piston, but also on the leading edges of the backing plate where it makes contact with the caliper bracket. What I found in the 15+ years working on BMW's and as an ASE Master Tech a copper powder anti-seize style brake paste with high temperature properties that doesn't melt and water resistant is the best. Mercedes Benz offers a brake paste formulated for their M-class works very well, as it tend not to dry up like others on the market and viscosity is high enough so that it does not run. Part# A001 989 87 51

We also operate a German car repair shop and this MB brake paste with proper bed in will ensure a couple of years of noise free operation and to guarantee our work with oem or street performance pads.

CRC brake quiet just doesn't pass the test with professionals.
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      10-07-2011, 10:26 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
Whatever Harold. You really are amazing.
I'll trust that the rest of the community unserstands that I know how to properly bed in a set of pads.
BTW, for those interested, these pads were the et500 pads on the RacingBrake 2 piece rotors, which I ran for about a week.
Please show the community how a proper bed in of brakes is done. I have seen many of you DIY's, perhaps you have one for bedding in brakes?

Again, proper bed in is very important just as a proper install. If both of those were done properly and the pads are still noisy, I'll rest my case.
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      10-07-2011, 10:47 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Autowerks View Post
Most people think they know how to bed in brake pads and rotors, but they really don't and they wonder why their brake pads are noisy.
It's not even close to true that most people who install their own brake pads end up wondering why they are noisy.
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      10-07-2011, 11:10 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by GaryS View Post
It's not even close to true that most people who install their own brake pads end up wondering why they are noisy.
How about most people who thought they knew how to install and bed in their own brakes, end up with some sort of noise and wonder why that is?
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      10-07-2011, 11:48 AM   #27
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RacingBrake has pretty much asked me not to speak on their behave on the intarweb anymore, so here's my PERSONAL opinion on the matter.

And this is from someone who's driven extensively, on the same car, on and off track, with both the Cool Carbon pad and the ET 500 pad.

They're both great products. You can't go wrong with either. Especially for street use. Personal opinion, neither one are truly suited for heavy track use.

Before you read more into one of my famous dissertations, here's the cliff note version.

Cool Carbon S/T pads are great pads that will perform well with light to moderate dust for street use, and some light to moderate use on the track.

RB ET500 pads are superb pads that will perform well with very light dust for street use, and some very light track use and autocross.

To be completely honest? We all have our preferences. I currently still use ET500 pads and RB rotors on my MZ4 Coupe. I'm not going to lie. I have my biases. The combination is excellent for mainly street use (I switch to Hawk DTC 60s for track). Now that I can't get RB discounts anymore, I don't quite know what to do once these ET500s wear out in what, another 3-4 years. I'll probably switch back to stock (since I still have a fresh set of stock pads) or swallow my pride and order another ET500 at full retail like the rest of you.

But in my personal experience, the ET500 has only made any significant noise when they're super-heated, like after an autocross or a track day. Or on a long commute where there's a lot of stop and go. The Cool Carbon pads actually does the same thing (for a while I had ET500 up front and Cool Carbon pad in the rear and they both make noises after an AX. The pitch is different, but they both squeak). The best analogy I can give you, is that the Cool Carbon is like Porterfield R4S while the ET500 is like Hawk HPS, if any of you have had extensive experiences with pads. The R4S has more heat capacity on the track while the HPS has lower dust levels (and frankly, the HPS can't really be used for track but that's another story altogether). But for street use, they're practically indistinguishable. The only way I can tell, besides the fact that I KNEW what pad is on what end, is the color of the dust is different. The ET500 has a slight reddish tint while the Cool Carbon S/T has a very neutral dust. But only I would know stuff like that, since judging color is what I do for a living.

So take it for what it's worth.

I can probably postulate as to why Mr.5's ET500 pad squeal regularly while mine doesn't. There's probably a very good explanation behind it. I don't know the history behind his use of the pads. I'm going to theorize that he used Cool Carbon pads on the same rotor before, then he installed the ET500 pads without using a true race pad between the two. This has happen to me before on a different set of pads (stock vs. CarboTech). SOMETIMES different pad compounds do not like each other. If you don't scrap off the top layer of the old pad that's been deposited, you may experience NVH levels when you install new pad of different compound. It doesn't always happen. I've swapped between Textar and Jurid pads back and forth on the same rotor before, no issues. Stock and Cobalts, no issues. Stock and CarboTech? Noise galore.

Back on the Cool Carbon then ET500 theory. I actually did use CC S/T on my RB rotors for a while. I was swapping back and forth between CC S/T and ET500 (my RB rotor started on ET500 pads, then I got a set of CC S/T, then I swapped back to ET500s. Yes I swap pads alot) Either the rotor got used to the ET500 transfer, or the fact that I used the Cobalt XR-3s in between the switch (it was a DE weekend. Car started out on ET500, swapped to XR-3s for the DE, when I came back switch to CC S/T. Then swapped back to XR-3s for another track weekend, and after swapped out for the ET500) means the rotors started out on a fresh, clean rotor because the Cobalt XR-3s basically scraped away ALL the prior deposit of pad material and laid down a fresh layer of XR-3 of its own.

Now, theoretically, if you had bedded in the pads properly, the ET500 should have scraped off the CC S/T deposit. But my personal experience is that mixing and changing pads on the same rotor can often have unpredictable results no matter how much you bed in the brakes, as evident by my experience switching from stock pads to CarboTech's street/track hybrid. I had a horrible time with the CarboTechs and was all but ready to give them up, until about the 3rd or 4th event on them and they started to get progressively more quite, at least to a point where it was more inline with my expectations.

So here's what I think is happening. Despite Mr.5's best intentions, there were some old material left on the rotors after his bed-in process. The problem here then, is that deposit from the ET500 will continue to form on that "high spot" and continue to cause NHV issues. The only way to get rid of it, is to run a high abrasive compound like a true track pad, Hawk HT-10, DTC-60 or better, Cobalt XR-3 or better, Performance Friction PFC-01 or better...etc while the rotor is cold to completely clean the rotor off. The result should be better after another bed-in.

Now, I don't now what Mr.5's process is, so this is all purely postulation. He may come back and say, hey, I did the race pad in between thing and the thing still squeal like a pig. Then I have no explanations.
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      10-07-2011, 06:47 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
Whatever Harold. You really are amazing.
I'll trust that the rest of the community unserstands that I know how to properly bed in a set of pads.
BTW, for those interested, these pads were the et500 pads on the RacingBrake 2 piece rotors, which I ran for about a week.
Well, since the question has been raised, I've got to ask (since I ordered the RB rotors and ET500 pads): Did you bed in fresh ET500 pads with fresh RB rotors? No judgement; just want to know because if you did, I'm going with different pads. tia
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      10-08-2011, 03:32 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvc 22349a View Post
Well, since the question has been raised, I've got to ask (since I ordered the RB rotors and ET500 pads): Did you bed in fresh ET500 pads with fresh RB rotors? No judgement; just want to know because if you did, I'm going with different pads. tia
What we still don't know is the pads and rotors were bedded in properly.
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      10-08-2011, 11:05 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Autowerks View Post
What we still don't know is the pads and rotors were bedded in properly.
What I know is I didn't bed in my oe brakes and rotors; just drove the car according to manufacturer's suggestions, and if the RB pads and rotors are that particular and howl like in Mr 5's video, then they're probably not for me..
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      10-08-2011, 11:21 PM   #31
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This is a very interesting debate..I do find the HACK's statement about pad compound compatibilty valid..I find it hard to believe a seasoned driver like Mr 5 would have not bedded his brakes pads properly..if anything I would think that he may have repeated the bed in process once he discovered this noise..or maybe he just switched up the setup in lieu of something else..

What are the opinions on Stoptech's BBK and noise levels on the street..assuming ofcourse a proper bed in..
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      10-12-2011, 08:16 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tibra1 View Post
R1 concepts.. premium rotors look really nice..they are coated on the hub and inside the vanes to prevent corrision

http://www.r1concepts.com/bmw-335i-2007-sc-disc.htm

I am still on OEM rotors but using Stoptech Street Performance pads..w stainless lines and ATE racing brake fluid..Pads bite harder and less fade compared to OEM
Tibra,

Do you know someone who's tried the r1 rotors?
I'm thinking I may cancel my RB rotor order. They're too expensive for a DD.
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      10-12-2011, 08:22 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvc 22349a View Post
Tibra,

Do you know someone who's tried the r1 rotors?
I'm thinking I may cancel my RB rotor order. They're too expensive for a DD.
I spoke to a couple of guys on the e46 forums who ran em and were very happy w them..no one here on e90 that i know personally..

Maybe start a thread on it? ...Im curious myself

The RBs are beautiful but they are just an arm and a leg..what turned me on to R1s was the hub and vane e-coating..and the premiums use a higher grade iron disc..
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      10-13-2011, 11:41 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tibra1 View Post
I spoke to a couple of guys on the e46 forums who ran em and were very happy w them..no one here on e90 that i know personally..

Maybe start a thread on it? ...Im curious myself

The RBs are beautiful but they are just an arm and a leg..what turned me on to R1s was the hub and vane e-coating..and the premiums use a higher grade iron disc..
'bimmer_335' said he used them and recommends them as a good oe alternative. I'm going to try the r1 premium rotors w/stoptech street performance pads and ss lines. (The premiums have painted vanes and hub centers instead of e coating?) That should be enough brake for me as I've only experienced fade once in 4 yrs. Can't justify the 2 pc RB's.
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      10-13-2011, 12:36 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvc 22349a View Post
'bimmer_335' said he used them and recommends them as a good oe alternative. I'm going to try the r1 premium rotors w/stoptech street performance pads and ss lines. (The premiums have painted vanes and hub centers instead of e coating?) That should be enough brake for me as I've only experienced fade once in 4 yrs. Can't justify the 2 pc RB's.
Look like the R1 premium is no different than the Stoptech's Centric brand rotors, but rather rebranded and a premium price charged.

If you click through the product and look at the spec image, they took that directly from Stoptech so that confirms my theory on their rebranding of Stoptech products. Perhaps only changing the wording for marketing purposes only.

blank fronts R1 is charging $217.82, Stoptech is $203.80
blank rears R1 is charging $193.25, Stoptech is $149

Here is the Stoptech Premium rotors:
Attached Images
 

Last edited by HP Autosport; 10-13-2011 at 12:41 PM.
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      10-13-2011, 02:52 PM   #36
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I'll have to check if there's a difference in iron grade between the R1 premium rotors and Stoptech when I have more time
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      10-13-2011, 04:04 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvc 22349a View Post
I'll have to check if there's a difference in iron grade between the R1 premium rotors and Stoptech when I have more time
There is none. They are the same "120" blanks!

Stoptech offers the Power Slot line and Cyro treated versions as well.
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      10-13-2011, 04:13 PM   #38
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the stock brakes are good enough for the street unless you have more power then i can justify upgrading brakes.



Quote:
Originally Posted by cvc 22349a View Post
What I know is I didn't bed in my oe brakes and rotors; just drove the car according to manufacturer's suggestions, and if the RB pads and rotors are that particular and howl like in Mr 5's video, then they're probably not for me..
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      10-13-2011, 04:16 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90335iflyer View Post
Coming from cars with much more powerful brakes the 335i oe brakes are not really up to par. Not going with BBK for my daily and a commuter just yet if I can get away with pads and rotor upgrades.

What do my peers here recommend for a good upgrade with more braking power, more consistent and firmer pedal, better modulation and less fade? I do not care for dustless pads from bad past experiences with them(no stopping power, pad fade and etc).

Please list pad(compound as well) and rotor brand and why you recommend them.

TIA
have a look at these offerings, I think you will like them. Kev.
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      10-14-2011, 12:53 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stratplaya06 View Post
I did an upgrade to my brakes with:
-Motul 600 fluid
-Porterfield R4-S pads F/R
-ECS Stainless lines
-Z4 35is front rotors (still stock 335 in the rear)

Made a real difference in braking confidence and fade resistance without costing too much money. I highly recommend this setup as a "poor man's brake upgrade" kit. There are no obnoxious noises and the pedal feel is great.
Sounds like a quality alternative to 2 pc rotors. Do those Z4 35i front rotors fit exactly on the 335i? Any noises at all/when?
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      10-14-2011, 12:56 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Autowerks View Post
There is none. They are the same "120" blanks!

Stoptech offers the Power Slot line and Cyro treated versions as well.
Thx for checking. I've read less than favorable user reviews about those rotors..
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      10-14-2011, 12:59 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tres View Post
the stock brakes are good enough for the street unless you have more power then i can justify upgrading brakes.
You're probably right.. I've only experienced fade 1-2x in 4 yrs. I do have more power and I drive in the mountains alot!
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      10-14-2011, 01:02 PM   #43
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OP and others: If you're interested in the RB 2 pc rotors at 25% off the rears and 15% off the fronts, shoot me a pm. I got in on the group buy a couple months ago and am going to cancel my order that hasn't shipped yet. If interested, maybe we can work something out with RB so they bill/ship to you..
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      10-16-2011, 11:39 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvc 22349a View Post
Thx for checking. I've read less than favorable user reviews about those rotors..
The "120" blanks are oe replacements so they are not any better. If installed and bedded in properly, they will perform just as well as stock, but will also have less than desirable results when pushed to the limits like to stock ones.
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