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      09-08-2011, 01:20 PM   #1
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Obama Now Taking Jobs(lack) Seriously During Election Season???

Obama will speak later today and will lay out the blueprint for new spending on transportation and infrastructure, the extension of a payroll tax cut for workers and a new payroll tax reduction for employers

Latest employment numbers shows what we have already known for many months/yrs....there are no real jobs...the money went to bail out banks and other financial institutions...they didnt make credit easier for us, they tightened it instead...so we the public took on trillions in debt for nothing...all we got was inflation on gold, gas, other commodities.

I will post something I read on WSJ(on comment section) which is quite elucidating and puts things in perspective.

And this isnt a total knock on Obama, cause any democrat and prob a repub would have done the same thing...its a failure in our political system I am protesting.




Odd, 2 years and 9 months into his presidency and he now thinks it is important to speak about jobs? I guess polls do work wonders.
I for one am now glad that obama is POTUS, as he has awakened a slumbering animal....Americans. There is a palpable unrest among voters who are finally at the breaking point of seeing this great country on its final legs, having been driven to the brink by liberalism, disregard for the Federal Laws, and a wanton disregard for fiscal responsibilities. Let me put it this way:
A simple explanation of the Federal Finances
U.S. Tax revenue: $2,170,000,000,000
Fed budget: $3,820,000,000,000
New debt: $1,650,000,000,000
National debt: $14,271,000,000,000
Recent budget cut: $38,500,000,000

Let's remove 8 zeros and pretend it's a household budget:

Annual family income: $21,700
Money the family spent: $38,200
New debt on the credit card: $16,500
Outstanding balance on the credit card: $142,710
Total budget cuts: $385

Fairly sad I must say. I can not wait for Nov '12
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      09-08-2011, 02:18 PM   #2
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The community organizer is in way over his head, and our nation is suffering for it. I read were only around 8% of his cabinet have any backround in the private business world. More than 30% of Clintons cabinet came from the private business world.

I'm sure tonights speech will be short on real details of his jobs plan, and will morph into it's Bush's fault, the repub's wont cooperate, and it's all the rich man's fault hate mongering campaign speech. This guys got to go!!!!

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      09-08-2011, 04:02 PM   #3
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Politically charged or not, let's at least be grateful that the president's focus is shifting towards job creation.

As far as track record goes, I am totally with you. Obama has been astoundingly disappointing. From the beginning, we knew that this would not be a standard recession. Home prices have fallen to such low levels that the wealth base of the average consumer has simply eroded away. If you understand macroeconomics, you will realize that this has uncoupled the whole economic engine; housing wealth (arguably foolishly) was a huge driver of consumption. Obama needed to take drastic steps at comprehensive reform in order to begin to solve our economic woes. But he didn't.

Instead, he followed standard Keynesian philosophy - something that we knew from the outset had little chance of succeeding. And let's not even talk about the Fed's ridiculous quantitative easing policies.

I think the only part of his plan that I agree with is infrastructure spending. If done intelligently and correctly (private-public partnerships are more efficient ways of doing this), it can be a huge driver of long-term growth. And let's face it, most of our infrastructure is 30, 40, 50 years old and could use serious revamping. The disappointing part is that SO LITTLE of his proposed and enacted spending bills were focused on infrastructure products. I hope he follows through with his promise for an infrastructure bank. This model has been very successful in other nations; in order for it to succeed, though, it must be independent of the government (a non-profit).

Last edited by Echo M3; 09-08-2011 at 04:07 PM.
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      09-08-2011, 04:35 PM   #4
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I would like to see tax cuts that benefit most of society...tax cuts for all...in order for this to happen govt has to cut back some entitlements and get smaller...without doing this, we will have huge inflation when we have to money print for money we dont have esp since many are not in a position to buy our debt/treasuries.

We need to create incentives for small businesses, which employ 75% of america, to hire and grow...but in the end, we are a consumption based economy and the only way we grow is if retail sales perk up and businesses have to hire cause they are truly busy.

Any help should go to the avg Joe so they have more money in their pockets to spend...giving it to anyone else hoping the trickle down theory works wont work.

I would like to see some serious spending on infrastructure...not lip service but actual commitment...even a trillion dollars if invested into our future wisely would be ok with me...what isnt ok with me is giving trillions to banks who gambled and lost and then expect us to pay for their mistakes.
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      09-08-2011, 04:40 PM   #5
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I would like to see tax increases for anyone making over $1,000,000.

That is beyond fair, no ifs and or buts. Anyone who disagrees deserves to be punched in the face.
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      09-08-2011, 05:11 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by mact3333 View Post
Odd, 2 years and 9 months into his presidency and he now thinks it is important to speak about jobs? I guess polls do work wonders.

Wow. For 2 years and 9 months all we've heard is bitching and more bitching about Obama's record JOB stimulus bill he passed, and now you think Obama is just now addressing the jobs issue? Where the hell have YOU been the last 2 years and 9 months? Listening to the Republicans bitching about the deficit, tax cuts, spending cuts, and abortion?

Here is the multi-year JOBS plan that Obama PASSED and has been focusing on, while the Republicans have been exclusively pushing bills to cut the debt and deficit:

http://www.recovery.gov/Transparency...ages/Jobs.aspx


Seriously, do you guys have ANY clue what is going on at all? Budget cutting that the Tea Party Republicans have demanded has cost more than 600,000 jobs JUST THIS YEAR!!

Last edited by 11Series; 09-08-2011 at 06:23 PM.
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      09-08-2011, 05:17 PM   #7
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I would like to see tax cuts that benefit most of society...tax cuts for all....
That's pretty hilarious, since you just got done bitching and moaning in another thread that 50% of households pay no income tax, and how they should be paying MORE taxes.


So let me get this straight. You want tax cuts for all. Except for the bottom 50%, who you want to give a tax increase. At the same time, you want to cut social benefits to the same bottom 50% that you also want to tax more. You want to hit the worst off with a double whammy, while giving cuts to the rich.

But you don't think you are really advocating for tax cuts for the rich, right?


Oh brother. You guys really can't do math.



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Originally Posted by mact3333 View Post
I would like to see some serious spending on infrastructure...not lip service but actual commitment...even a trillion dollars if invested into our future wisely would be ok with me...
With WHAT TAX MONEY? You just got done saying you wanted to cut taxes...

Serious math impediment.
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      09-08-2011, 05:37 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by mact3333 View Post
Let's remove 8 zeros and pretend it's a household budget:

Annual family income: $21,700
Money the family spent: $38,200
New debt on the credit card: $16,500
Outstanding balance on the credit card: $142,710
Total budget cuts: $385
In any REAL household, they would quickly figure out that $21,700 a year is way too little income, and the spouse would have to get a job. Or the primary bread winner would have to get a second job. Put the kids to work collecting cans and mowing neighbor's lawns and shoveling neighbor's walks for their pocket cash. (Increase taxes)

Not the Tea Party Republicans. They want to DECREASE income by cutting hours at work (tax cuts). They want to exclusively cut the budget, even though everyone in the family knows the only way to balance the budget via cuts-only would mean they would have to give up the apartment they rent and become homeless.

More can't-do-math Tea Party Republican bull.

The most hilarious part of this guy's post, is that right in the middle of bitching about Obama not focusing on jobs, he COMPLETELY DROPS THE ISSUE OF JOBS. He goes off on another typical deficit/budget rant that completely changes the subject AWAY from jobs. Sadly, this is exactly what the national Tea Party Republicans have been doing too.

Last edited by 11Series; 09-08-2011 at 05:45 PM.
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      09-08-2011, 08:11 PM   #9
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I think the only part of his plan that I agree with is infrastructure spending. If done intelligently and correctly (private-public partnerships are more efficient ways of doing this), it can be a huge driver of long-term growth.

Yeah well if can remember BHO's sell job of the 800 billion stimulus....Iinfrastructure projects was to be a big part of the spending....(Shovel Ready ????? ) it was all wasted was it not????
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      09-08-2011, 08:16 PM   #10
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Yes, let's do talk about jobs. Nobama took office at 7.7% unemployment. We won't even talk about the rate for minorities, discouraged workers, others. Now the rate is 9.1%. If Nobama cares about jobs any more we could be headed for double digits. One and done!
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      09-08-2011, 08:17 PM   #11
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You arrived right on cue......first of all, that wasnt my quote...it was taken off of the wsj comment section.

Once again you seem to know the superficial info taken off of google quite well...you do know most of those govt created jobs were temp jobs where many just stood around and were let go only to be hired to the exact same jobs to make the numbers look good...clearly documented...these jobs were set to expire...just like unemployment benefits, it cant last forever...you will see this right after this election cycle...but during elections they will try to calm the boat but it wont work.

If you live in the real world, you would know there havent been many "real " jobs created...the fast food and temp jobs with no benefits are a plenty though.

I am done arguing with you and trying to convince you of anything cause that is impossible...but the people in the real world know the truth...but trying to blame the tea party is beyond ludicrous...that is exactly what the media want you to believe...yrs from now you will see that the tea party is being made out to be the scapegoat and will cont to be marginalized just like Ron Paul.

Dont you find it at all odd that Ron Paul can be second in the straw poll yet all media will ignore and not even mention his name?...what is the rational explanation for this without making a smartass remark.?

Lastly, since Obama just stated what I have been saying for 3 months and have argued with you many times now, which is to say we need lower taxes to stimulate growth, what say you?...is this true that Obama feels I am correct?..or is he bs'ing us just to try to get re-elected?


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Originally Posted by 11Series View Post
Wow. For 2 years and 9 months all we've heard is bitching and more bitching about Obama's record JOB stimulus bill he passed, and now you think Obama is just now addressing the jobs issue? Where the hell have YOU been the last 2 years and 9 months? Listening to the Republicans bitching about the deficit, tax cuts, spending cuts, and abortion?

Here is the multi-year JOBS plan that Obama PASSED and has been focusing on, while the Republicans have been exclusively pushing bills to cut the debt and deficit:

http://www.recovery.gov/Transparency...ages/Jobs.aspx


Seriously, do you guys have ANY clue what is going on at all? Budget cutting that the Tea Party Republicans have demanded has cost more than 600,000 jobs JUST THIS YEAR!!

Last edited by mact3333; 09-08-2011 at 08:32 PM.
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      09-08-2011, 08:24 PM   #12
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Does anyone else find it odd and funny that 11 series didnt once mention that perhaps this fictional family should stop spending money?....

Brings up everything but the big elephant in the room...when you make 22K a yr, you dont spend 38K, unless you're the US govt...rational person would try to make abit more income but wouldnt the first thing you would want to control is the spending?...in your own family, is that how you would deal with debt and overspending?...hmm.

Ya see, govt budget isnt all that much different than setting up a family budget, but the so called super smart people will tell you that it is, hence impossible to do??...its simple math.



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Originally Posted by 11Series View Post
In any REAL household, they would quickly figure out that $21,700 a year is way too little income, and the spouse would have to get a job. Or the primary bread winner would have to get a second job. Put the kids to work collecting cans and mowing neighbor's lawns and shoveling neighbor's walks for their pocket cash. (Increase taxes)

Not the Tea Party Republicans. They want to DECREASE income by cutting hours at work (tax cuts). They want to exclusively cut the budget, even though everyone in the family knows the only way to balance the budget via cuts-only would mean they would have to give up the apartment they rent and become homeless.

More can't-do-math Tea Party Republican bull.

The most hilarious part of this guy's post, is that right in the middle of bitching about Obama not focusing on jobs, he COMPLETELY DROPS THE ISSUE OF JOBS. He goes off on another typical deficit/budget rant that completely changes the subject AWAY from jobs. Sadly, this is exactly what the national Tea Party Republicans have been doing too.
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      09-08-2011, 08:45 PM   #13
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[quote=11Series;10384468]In any REAL household, they would quickly figure out that $21,700 a year is way too little income, and the spouse would have to get a job. Or the primary bread winner would have to get a second job. Put the kids to work collecting cans and mowing neighbor's lawns and shoveling neighbor's walks for their pocket cash. (Increase taxes)

Not the Tea Party Republicans. They want to DECREASE income by cutting hours at work (tax cuts). They want to exclusively cut the budget, even though everyone in the family knows the only way to balance the budget via cuts-only would mean they would have to give up the apartment they rent and become homeless.

More can't-do-math Tea Party Republican bull.

The most hilarious part of this guy's post, is that right in the middle of bitching about Obama not focusing on jobs, he COMPLETELY DROPS THE ISSUE OF JOBS. He goes off on another typical deficit/budget rant that completely changes the subject AWAY from jobs. Sadly, this is exactly what the national Tea Party Republicans have been doing too.[/QUOTE

Your the hilarious one, you prove the point.....the community organizer and all the rest of the delusional liberals can't even grasp the simple concept that you can't spend what you don't have !!!
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      09-08-2011, 10:55 PM   #14
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I think the only part of his plan that I agree with is infrastructure spending. If done intelligently and correctly (private-public partnerships are more efficient ways of doing this), it can be a huge driver of long-term growth.

Yeah well if can remember BHO's sell job of the 800 billion stimulus....Iinfrastructure projects was to be a big part of the spending....(Shovel Ready ????? ) it was all wasted was it not????
This is exactly what I mean - what happened to all of the 'shovel ready' projects? So little of that stimulus package actually went towards REAL infrastructure spending.
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      09-08-2011, 11:03 PM   #15
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Does anyone else find it odd and funny that 11 series didnt once mention that perhaps this fictional family should stop spending money?....

Brings up everything but the big elephant in the room...when you make 22K a yr, you dont spend 38K, unless you're the US govt...rational person would try to make abit more income but wouldnt the first thing you would want to control is the spending?...in your own family, is that how you would deal with debt and overspending?...hmm.

Ya see, govt budget isnt all that much different than setting up a family budget, but the so called super smart people will tell you that it is, hence impossible to do??...its simple math.
Now, now, let's play nice mate. This is a place for us to discuss, not to attack each other.

Series11, infrastructure spending (even to a level of $1 trillion) is feasible without raising taxes. It simply requires us to readjust our spending priorities. For example, we could look at cutting spending in the DoD (which represents a massive fraction of government spending). The problem is that our priorities are currently all messed up.

That being said, I think Obama's new ideas have some merits. He's finally coming around to the value of infrastructure (albeit not to the levels I would like to see), and he has the right idea about increasing investment in education and expanding our FTAs. It's a pity we failed so miserably at investing in our future with the first mammoth spending bill.
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      09-09-2011, 02:48 AM   #16
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I saw the speech today and I simply cant wait for a new president this Obama character disgusts me. At this point im simply convinced he became president because of his speech skills, he should have been a lawyer instead. Its disgusting and disturbing that jobs are being talked about now, when it was promised upon his presidency speeches 32 god damn months ago. This country seems to be going through a "lets be hip or its time for a change stage" ... please bring back conservatism. This country is on the verge of losing its ass. Way things are looking, were in for shit for a while.
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      09-09-2011, 09:38 AM   #17
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The problem here is that everyone thinks the government can do something to turn the economy around.

Sorry but they can't. The market has to correct itself and is doing just that.

We got into this mess because people spent money they didn't have, and a lot of it. They spent borrowed money that created artificial economic prosperity within this country.

When the housing market went bust because people realized they were buying overpriced houses that really were worth shit, they started to stop.

Then when jobs started to disappear, people realized a lot of what they possessed, was owned and paid for by someone else (VISA, Mastercard, Amex ect).

That's why now we're seeing people pay down their debts in numbers we haven't seen in decades. They don't want to put themselves in that situation anymore and are spending their money getting back zero.

Our economy was too dependent on people buying things. Many of which they couldn't afford and didn't need. That won't be happening for a while now that people have a bad taste in their mouth.

It will be that way for a long time. The government isn't going to change that because they can't change buying habits.
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      09-09-2011, 10:19 AM   #18
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Ding ding ding...excellent observation...75% of our economy is consumer spending...3/4 of consumer spending 5 yrs ago was from tapping the home equity ATM...credit is contracting...credit contracts two ways...default or people paying back the debt...both are happening...this is a deflationary environment for the masses for things we own while we have inflation on the things we need to buy such as food/gas....worst of both worlds.

Businesses know we are in another recession and even a yr ago they knew things were shaky hence they werent hiring...they stock piled cash and tightened their belts.

Govt CANT solve everyones probs...they need to shrink and let true capitalism work...when the strong become weak and fail, they need to be replaced by hungry smart companies.

Less regulation and red tape.

If the govt is going to help, help the people directly or small businesses...not corporate and fortune 500 co's.





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Originally Posted by TMNT View Post
The problem here is that everyone thinks the government can do something to turn the economy around.

Sorry but they can't. The market has to correct itself and is doing just that.

We got into this mess because people spent money they didn't have, and a lot of it. They spent borrowed money that created artificial economic prosperity within this country.

When the housing market went bust because people realized they were buying overpriced houses that really were worth shit, they started to stop.

Then when jobs started to disappear, people realized a lot of what they possessed, was owned and paid for by someone else (VISA, Mastercard, Amex ect).

That's why now we're seeing people pay down their debts in numbers we haven't seen in decades. They don't want to put themselves in that situation anymore and are spending their money getting back zero.

Our economy was too dependent on people buying things. Many of which they couldn't afford and didn't need. That won't be happening for a while now that people have a bad taste in their mouth.

It will be that way for a long time. The government isn't going to change that because they can't change buying habits.
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      09-09-2011, 11:18 AM   #19
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Does anyone else find it odd and funny that 11 series didnt once mention that perhaps this fictional family should stop spending money?....

Brings up everything but the big elephant in the room...when you make 22K a yr, you dont spend 38K, unless you're the US govt...rational person would try to make abit more income but wouldnt the first thing you would want to control is the spending?...in your own family, is that how you would deal with debt and overspending?...hmm.

Ya see, govt budget isnt all that much different than setting up a family budget, but the so called super smart people will tell you that it is, hence impossible to do??...its simple math.
I've already talked about the spending cuts I support in the budget thread. Your entire post is a strawman, because I've already supported spending cuts ALONG with increased revenue, which is the ONLY way to balance the budget and start addressing our debt. You just refuse to do the math to understand why your tax cuts and spending cuts only ideas are bankrupt.

I'll give it another try. Which is bigger?

A) 2.5 Trillion minus 1 Trillion.

OR

B) 3 Trillion plus 1 Trillion plus 5.5 Trillion

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      09-09-2011, 02:02 PM   #20
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Ding ding ding...excellent observation...75% of our economy is consumer spending...3/4 of consumer spending 5 yrs ago was from tapping the home equity ATM...credit is contracting...credit contracts two ways...default or people paying back the debt...both are happening...this is a deflationary environment for the masses for things we own while we have inflation on the things we need to buy such as food/gas....worst of both worlds.

Businesses know we are in another recession and even a yr ago they knew things were shaky hence they werent hiring...they stock piled cash and tightened their belts.

Govt CANT solve everyones probs...they need to shrink and let true capitalism work...when the strong become weak and fail, they need to be replaced by hungry smart companies.

Less regulation and red tape.

If the govt is going to help, help the people directly or small businesses...not corporate and fortune 500 co's.
Well that may sounds like how things should work, but we know it doesn't. Unfortunately, too big to fail entities exist in this country. For example, I think the government saving the auto industry was a good idea. We would of been in a bigger economic whole had we not gotten involved. By the calculations I made on this forum many years ago, it would have cost the government more in paying out unemployment checks and loss revenue then bailing them out would have. We even got a decent amount of our money back. I wouldn't even want to know what our debt would look like if we let GM and to a lesser extent Chrysler go. I don't condone actions like this everyday, but sometimes desperate times call for desperate measures.
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      09-09-2011, 06:09 PM   #21
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Obama's speech was so filled with crap it came out of Biden's ears. I mean did anything he say make sense? Did you hear any plan at all? What the hell went on? Actually, if you paid close enough attention you'll know exactly what his $450 billion stimulus is; to give unions all that money. You heard me, all he spoke about was construction workers and teachers. All unions, all corruption. This money might as well all go to his campaign for what it is. I can't take it anymore and neither can America. You saw what happened with the stock market today, it was all down over 3%.
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      09-09-2011, 06:48 PM   #22
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Obama's speech was so filled with crap it came out of Biden's ears. I mean did anything he say make sense? Did you hear any plan at all? What the hell went on? Actually, if you paid close enough attention you'll know exactly what his $450 billion stimulus is; to give unions all that money. You heard me, all he spoke about was construction workers and teachers. All unions, all corruption. This money might as well all go to his campaign for what it is. I can't take it anymore and neither can America. You saw what happened with the stock market today, it was all down over 3%.
It made sense. It sounds like you might have been too stubborn with whatever disdain you hold against the president that it prevented you from truly listening.

Maybe you didn't hear anything about extending the payroll tax for employees and adding in employers?

Maybe you didn't hear anything about giving small businesses who hire someone who has been unemployed for 6 months or more a 4k tax credit?

And your comment about 'unions' is funny....the majority of jobs within the U.S. are unionized.

I'm not defending or promoting anything Obama has offered, but his proposal deserve discussion within congress. So its annoying when folks like you spout off nonsense or regurgitate things you hear from talking heads.

No one running for the republican ticket has any clue about economics except for maybe Ron Paul. (Just because some ran businesses, doesn't mean they understand economics)

I guarantee if anyone asked any of those politicians running for office to explain the basic fundamental economic concept of supply and demand, they'd look at you like a dear in headlights. We as citizens spend too much time asking politicians what they stand for or what they'd do to fix things. What we really need to be asking them are fundamental questions testing their knowledge and expertise in a field such as management, economics, security, and foreign policy. Not dumb shit like are you for a women's right to choose, gun control, or gay marriage. But unfortunately that's pretty much all the public can comprehend.

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