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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Charcoal Delete and K&N Filter revisited. Your personal experience Please :)



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      10-26-2011, 12:31 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ********* View Post
I have a aFe oiled drop in, charcoal delete, and air silencer delete. Car runs great. A very slight increase in throttle response and sound.

The purpose of the carbon filter is to scrub the air that can leak back out after turning off the engine. Its an emissions thing. Has nothing to do with the performance of the car.
At the time of my post, with the exception of benzo23, most agreed on some difference i.e. running smoother, slight throttle response, <1 HP etc. So, that's where I stated All the response that you've gotten here is spot on.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kamek View Post
You provided a lot of numbers, but can you provide a source or let us know where you derived these "estimates" from?

Tricking yourself into believing that you're gaining performance from these mods is different than actually gaining performance from these mods.
Under the Here are my findings: section, #1 and #3 (inside the parenthesis) tell you where I got the numbers, from the K&N claim on panel filter box.

My numbers I got from using a 3" diameter PVC, AirFlow Digital Meter, a garden leaf blower/vacuum, a duct tape, and the filters of course.

I set the AirFlow Digital Meter Sensor at 18" from the entrance into the 3" PVC pipe (where I had the filter media duct taped). Used the nipple to connect my garden leaf blower/vacuum to the back of the 3" PVC pipe and duct taped it to ensure it is not leaking. Entered the parameters into the AirFlow Digital Meter i.e. area, distance, etc., turned on the vacuum and I got the numbers on my AirFlow Digital Meter.

Now, I have not done a dyno comparison, but as you know yourself, and even with the same mods or not you can get a different results each time on the dyno. All I'm trying to show is what others were saying. The saying is in the numbers . I hope I answered your question.
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      10-26-2011, 12:39 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycbr View Post
based on the numbers above it seems the charcoal filter has very little effect on air flow. is the charcoal filter behind the air filter? Perhaps leave it in so it would block any oil from a K&N filter from fouling the MAF
If you see from the numbers, the charcoal filter restricts about 15 CFM of air volume (comparing OEM paper filter vs OEM paper filter w/charcoal filter). That is about 5-6 intake air boxes, volume speaking. It is significant.

And as benzo23 said, Yes the charcoal is behind the regular air filer...
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      10-26-2011, 01:05 PM   #25
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Theres no doubt in my mind that the physics behind this should show an improvement in air flow, your removing a very restrictive charcoal filter, removing a paper element and replacing with a high flow oiled filter. It should flow better...BUT in my case I didnt notice anything, then again I did do this in the death of a FL summer at 100deg and the humidity prob around 90% so would this affect intake air temp, of course...and I know for a fact this car runs like a sluggish piece of shit when its that hot out...maybe for shits come next month I will put a new K&N back in and see if I notice anything in the winter time...
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      10-26-2011, 03:25 PM   #26
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LOL @ people thinking they can "feel/notice" a 1hp gain HAHAHAHAHAH
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      10-26-2011, 03:32 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edirtaynine View Post
LOL @ people thinking they can "feel/notice" a 1hp gain HAHAHAHAHAH
Placebo effect
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      10-26-2011, 06:04 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacemonkey1112 View Post
Also, I know the US box uses a flat panel filter rather than a cylindrical shaped filter.. can I put a cylinder K&N filter into my car or do i have to get a Euro box? I sorta want a Euro box since cleaning the filter would be much easier (hopefully I could find it used somehow)
wow.. sorry for the crap ass post (dumb iphone app haha)
...i was also curious about this home made euro box... lol.. what remove stock square filter .. add a fitted PVC pipe to the inlet and just add a k&n cone filter? dont wana gettorid my junk .. but it sounds that it would look and act the same as a euro box .. the only major difference would be that to clean the filter you would have to remove the whole box vs the euro were u just remove the top ? ..
what u guys think... and no i dont wana do it first lol
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      10-26-2011, 07:57 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlos916 View Post
...i was also curious about this home made euro box... lol.. what remove stock square filter .. add a fitted PVC pipe to the inlet and just add a k&n cone filter? dont wana gettorid my junk .. but it sounds that it would look and act the same as a euro box .. the only major difference would be that to clean the filter you would have to remove the whole box vs the euro were u just remove the top ? ..
what u guys think... and no i dont wana do it first lol
in order for this to work... you would have to some how bore out the inlet and so on. too much work for what its worth.

i mean some people here think feeling a 1hp gain is placebo effect and laugh at the gain... so i always wonder about those that claim to feel the difference between cone (euro box) and panel filters. plus i love seeing how its always a different result in response when the word "euro" and "box" is inserted then all of the sudden it becomes a legit gain.
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      10-26-2011, 10:16 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krnboy817 View Post
in order for this to work... you would have to some how bore out the inlet and so on. too much work for what its worth.

i mean some people here think feeling a 1hp gain is placebo effect and laugh at the gain... so i always wonder about those that claim to feel the difference between cone (euro box) and panel filters. plus i love seeing how its always a different result in response when the word "euro" and "box" is inserted then all of the sudden it becomes a legit gain.
lol.. ur right.. cone or flate filter its kind of the same? especially when enclosed in a box? n e who. .yeah ill just stick to my charcoal delete and stock filter
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      10-27-2011, 02:38 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krnboy817 View Post
in order for this to work... you would have to some how bore out the inlet and so on. too much work for what its worth.

i mean some people here think feeling a 1hp gain is placebo effect and laugh at the gain... so i always wonder about those that claim to feel the difference between cone (euro box) and panel filters. plus i love seeing how its always a different result in response when the word "euro" and "box" is inserted then all of the sudden it becomes a legit gain.
i think the euro-spec intake is more for sound (if there is any gain) and for just the sake of modding to have it. any power "gains" from a $500 euro-spec intake is still a joke to me.
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      10-27-2011, 09:05 AM   #32
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For 500 dollars ill get a lot more enjoyment out of my new titleist 910 driver and new mizuno mp r12 wedge lol...Ive concluded that gains for an intake on this car are a joke, if you want a K&N then fine drop one in, you want to cut out the charcoal then by all means go for it...ME, ive cut it out and put a new oem paper filter in at every oil change...an extra 25 bucks isnt going to break me every 5k miles. I could care less if K&N is life time, i guarantee 75% of the population prob over oils it anyways or doesn't leave enough time to let it dry. I loved the way the AFE sounds but sucking in that much hot humid air here in FL really made for a loss in power which was noticeable. Again this is my opinion so everyone can come up with there own conclusion.
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      10-27-2011, 09:36 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edirtaynine View Post
i think the euro-spec intake is more for sound (if there is any gain) and for just the sake of modding to have it. any power "gains" from a $500 euro-spec intake is still a joke to me.
The euro spec intake is just that, euro spec. Europe has different regulations on emissions, which are much less restrictive than us regulations.

Basically the difference is the charcoal filter and the cone vs panel filter. The shape is altered because there is not charcoal filter to work around.
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      10-27-2011, 11:34 PM   #34
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I did mine on Saturday. I didn't feel a difference. To each his own
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      10-28-2011, 02:21 AM   #35
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I tried to show some physics behind the air filters. And it is interesting to see the opinions of the people in this forum. The pattern seems to be, those living close to sea level and hot tropical climate don't feel anything from swapping the OEM filter with higher flow filter and charcoal delete. However, for someone like me, living at 4300' above sea level where air is less dense, by replacing the OEM filter with K&N and removing the charcoal filter did in fact felt the difference. Hell, now slaloming through the canyons is a lot more fun.
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      10-28-2011, 10:29 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edirtaynine View Post
LOL @ people thinking they can "feel/notice" a 1hp gain HAHAHAHAHAH
I felt it! In my pocket
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      10-28-2011, 11:27 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branmace View Post
I tried to show some physics behind the air filters. And it is interesting to see the opinions of the people in this forum. The pattern seems to be, those living close to sea level and hot tropical climate don't feel anything from swapping the OEM filter with higher flow filter and charcoal delete. However, for someone like me, living at 4300' above sea level where air is less dense, by replacing the OEM filter with K&N and removing the charcoal filter did in fact felt the difference. Hell, now slaloming through the canyons is a lot more fun.
guess there are less people that are keen on sensing things... but i do have to agree, whether there is a gain or not, car feels much "free-er" than past.

i bet if one were to do this mod... then replace it all back to stock they may feel the difference.
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      11-03-2011, 03:00 PM   #38
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http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12338

why are these responses so much different?
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      11-03-2011, 04:13 PM   #39
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The question I would have is: for those who did see a difference, whether they had a tune already installed?

This was the case with me, Burger PBX tune installed 6 mths before modding the airbox. I saw a considerable improvement with an AFE oiled drop-in, carbon delete and scoops. With the tune already installed, the engine was running richer with more aggressive maps -- and prepped for more air.

If you install the filter before the tune, you'll attribute all the increase to the tune when you do it.

Case in point, most CAIs for 4.6L Mustangs require a PCM recalibration.
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      11-03-2011, 08:15 PM   #40
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[quote=krnboy817;10699509][quote=branmace;10697623]I tried to show some physics behind the air filters. And it is interesting to see the opinions of the people in this forum. The pattern seems to be, those living close to sea level and hot tropical climate don't feel anything from swapping the OEM filter with higher flow filter and charcoal delete. However, for someone like me, living at 4300' above sea level where air is less dense, by replacing the OEM filter with K
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      11-11-2011, 01:31 PM   #41
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hey everyone, so I finally did the K&N drop-in and charcoal delete yesterday and i definitely feel the extra 15 ponies!!!!!

haha just kidding but on a serious note...

From my experience, after I had swapped in the new filter and cut out the charcoal filter, my car definitely has a slightly lower engine note when starting the car; the engine note was a lower tone than what I was used and made its presence known in the car. My passenger even noticed the sound change and she doesn't know much about cars (she was just accompanying me as i did the swap and when I started the car, her initial reaction was, 'whoa... *smiles*'). The car idling at a stop sign/light is no different than stock. There is an increase in throttle response but don't expect anything truly significant; I still feel the delay (comparing to my brother's e46 w/ gruppe M intake). I'll have to get a ECU tune to fix that straight.

As of sound, the engine IMO does seem to be slightly louder (4500rpm and up but I also am debating if my 3 stage manifold has something to do with this); there is no dramatic change in tone. I never expected more power out of this but it does sound nice to hear more of the N52 in the car.

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Last edited by spacemonkey1112; 11-11-2011 at 02:55 PM.
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      11-11-2011, 02:03 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacemonkey1112 View Post
hey everyone, so I finally did the K&N drop-in and charcoal delete yesterday and i definitely feel the extra 15 ponies!!!!!

haha just kidding but on a serious note...

From my experience, after I had swapped in the new filter and cut out the charcoal filter, my car definitely has a slightly lower engine note when starting the car; the engine note was a lower tone than what I was used and made its presence known in the car. My passenger even noticed the sound change and she doesn't know much about cars (she was just accompanying me as i did the swap and when I started the car, her initial reaction was, 'whoa... *smiles*'). The car idling at a stop sign/light is no different than stock. There is an increase in throttle response but don't expect anything truly significant; I still feel the delay (comparing to my brother's e46 w/ gruppe M intake). I'll have to get a ECU tune to fix that straight.

As of sound, the engine IMO does seem to be slightly louder (4500rpm and up but I also am debating if my 3 stage manifold has something to do with this); there is no dramatic change in tone. I never expected more power out of this but it does sound nice to hear more of the N52 in the car.

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9u6UqpDzya4?hl=en&fs=1" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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      11-11-2011, 02:12 PM   #43
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This one time at band camp.....
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      12-19-2011, 09:22 AM   #44
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Hope I don't get flamed for posting here, but has anyone got a SES light after doing the charcoal delete? Mine came on this morning driving to work. I deleted the charcoal filter this weekend and really didn't drive the car until this morning, although I did run my son;s friend home which was a short trip. I also cleaned the MAF with some MAF cleaner and scrubbed the filter box as well.
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