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      10-30-2011, 06:31 PM   #45
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That is why Mercedes are good prices to lease, choose an Edition 125 model for example and you get Nav, Ipod, Bluetooth and loads of other toys included.
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      10-31-2011, 03:07 AM   #46
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ouch thats is very good though I'm sure the figures go up as soon as you decide on a more normal milage allowance like15k
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      10-31-2011, 03:39 AM   #47
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I wonder how the numbers work.

Say a 35k SLK will provide an income of 5000 from the deal on the 3+11 mentioned.

I assume either they are getting 15% bulk buy discount - i.e. paying 30k, then assuming in a years time it will still be worth 28k, at 2% cost of finance would be about 1000, hence overall profit of 2000 on each car.

How does VAT on the original car purchase feature for the lease company - do they pay this, or is this recoverable, or never paid as its only owned by the lease company as some sort of "consumable"?
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      10-31-2011, 03:53 AM   #48
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ouch thats is very good though I'm sure the figures go up as soon as you decide on a more normal milage allowance like15k
I was quoted 1800 deposit and 302 a month for a C250cdi Sport Estate Edition 125.
I got a quote for 15k miles and 18k miles as well and was shocked at the difference!
15k miles took it to 312 a month and 18k miles to 316.

That was including VAT by the way, not bad for a 38,000 car.
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      10-31-2011, 03:57 AM   #49
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Oh, that was over 24 months, doing it over 36 months adding more mileage actually made it more expensive, I guess a 2 year old car with 36k miles on it is still very saleable where as at 3 years old with 54k miles it is getting close to 60k and may loose a fair bit more.
I don't know that, just guessing.
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      10-31-2011, 04:04 AM   #50
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I wonder how the numbers work.

Say a 35k SLK will provide an income of 5000 from the deal on the 3+11 mentioned.

I assume either they are getting 15% bulk buy discount - i.e. paying 30k, then assuming in a years time it will still be worth 28k, at 2% cost of finance would be about 1000, hence overall profit of 2000 on each car.

How does VAT on the original car purchase feature for the lease company - do they pay this, or is this recoverable, or never paid as its only owned by the lease company as some sort of "consumable"?
Some of the contract hire companies are getting 28% on C and E Classes.

So a 40k car they pay 30k for.

So take the C250cdi I mentioned above, it is 38k less 28% = 27500.
They then charge you 1800+(24x302)= 9050

So 27500 - 9050 = 18500.

Will a 38k C250cdi sport estate be worth more than 18500 after 2 years and 20k miles? Yeah of course it will, it will be 23-25k no problem.


I have heard that Mercedes are even buying them back at the end of the term too, so it seems it is a short term plan for Mercedes UK to shift metal and get some cash flow or get more Mercs on the road, rather than a long term plan.
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      10-31-2011, 04:05 AM   #51
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The VAT is claimable by the lease holder if done as a business lease or I guess the hire company can claim it if done as personal.
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      10-31-2011, 04:15 AM   #52
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I wonder how the numbers work.

Say a 35k SLK will provide an income of 5000 from the deal on the 3+11 mentioned.

I assume either they are getting 15% bulk buy discount - i.e. paying 30k, then assuming in a years time it will still be worth 28k, at 2% cost of finance would be about 1000, hence overall profit of 2000 on each car.

How does VAT on the original car purchase feature for the lease company - do they pay this, or is this recoverable, or never paid as its only owned by the lease company as some sort of "consumable"?
The lease company would pay the VAT on sale of the Car so a 38K Car sold after 2 years for say 24K would attract only 4K Vat (20K + 20% VAT)
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      10-31-2011, 04:32 AM   #53
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A point to note; if you return a car in anything but showroom condition you will most likely be charged. Mercedes corprate are nototrious for abondoning common sense when evaluating fair wear and tear.

So, a kerbed wheel here, a trolley dent there etc very quickly stacks up to a 4 figure sum...
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      10-31-2011, 04:36 AM   #54
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I would never lease from Mercedes they are ruthless.

However, saying that a guy who owns a telecoms company near me was saying that everytime their Mercs go back they send a bill of over a grand and he calls up and tells them to send the laywers in. He has never had anything procede further and still hires from them, so think they try it on.
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      10-31-2011, 04:36 AM   #55
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The lease company would pay the VAT on sale of the Car so a 38K Car sold after 2 years for say 24K would attract only 4K Vat (20K + 20% VAT)
Thanks, so is this whta VAT qualifing means - when you see a car for sale for 24k that is VAT qualifying it means VAT has not been paid at first purchase (presumably due to its use as a lease car/hire car etc.).

This therefore means, at the 2nsd hand purchase price of 24k EITHER -

a) 4k of the 24k will be paid as VAT if you are a private buyer, or
b) you could buy VAT free at 20k and declare the VAT payable again when you sell in 2 years when its worth 12k if you are buying as a business user etc.

In this way can cars escape VAT for years until they leave service in a company?

I guess this makes sense if the tax man is getting VAT on all the business income that the car is involved in (i.e. leasing).

Is it tax efficient to lease a car to yourself through a company you set up?
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      10-31-2011, 05:48 AM   #56
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Yup. Although the lease costs for a car with lots of toys will be considerably higher; the reason being that most finance companies don't give the full RV for extras, meaning you actually pay for them over the duration of your lease (less what value they do give).

So, if you go nuts and spunk 5k on extras that add little or nothing to RV then that cost all be added to the basic cost of the car.
Although with a lease you can normally spec the car these special deals on Mercedes are only on pre-built cars in stock and on the understanding they are delivered by the end of that month.
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      10-31-2011, 06:28 AM   #57
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I would never lease from Mercedes they are ruthless.

However, saying that a guy who owns a telecoms company near me was saying that everytime their Mercs go back they send a bill of over a grand and he calls up and tells them to send the laywers in. He has never had anything procede further and still hires from them, so think they try it on.
I had a Merc GL for two years on a PCP. I handed it back to MB at the end as it was worth less than the Guaranteed Value. It had had a disabled wheelchair hoist fitted, then removed before the end, I was not charged for any 'damage' even though there was some repairs conducted to hide some of the holes and cutaways required to cover the fixing points, in fact I was charged nothing at all. I did look after it though so it doesn't have to be all doom and gloom with Mercedes at the end of the lease.
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      10-31-2011, 08:25 AM   #58
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They're a law unto themselves. I had some Peugeot vans that went back after three years contract hire and we'd had holes cut in the side for power and water. They never mentioned it. My Saab went back and they came back at me with a right list. Just told them to bugger off and that was that.

Regarding these cheap Merc deals, I've had a chat or two in the past with people in the trade and it does seem to be quite a shortsighted tactic by MB. As already mentioned, it will seriously hit the future residual/resale values specifically on the C-Class variants. Or obviously if you're shopping for a cheap Merc in a couple of years then you're quids in.
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      10-31-2011, 09:27 AM   #59
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Thanks, so is this whta VAT qualifing means - when you see a car for sale for 24k that is VAT qualifying it means VAT has not been paid at first purchase (presumably due to its use as a lease car/hire car etc.).

This therefore means, at the 2nsd hand purchase price of 24k EITHER -

a) 4k of the 24k will be paid as VAT if you are a private buyer, or
b) you could buy VAT free at 20k and declare the VAT payable again when you sell in 2 years when its worth 12k if you are buying as a business user etc.

In this way can cars escape VAT for years until they leave service in a company?

I guess this makes sense if the tax man is getting VAT on all the business income that the car is involved in (i.e. leasing).

Is it tax efficient to lease a car to yourself through a company you set up?

VAT qualifying means the VAT has not yet been claimed back.

if you buy a car through your company, which is vat registered you can claim the VAT back (50% anyway).
However this can only be done once, dealers tend to claim it back on satff cars but not on demonstrators, hence why some are vat qualifying and some are not.

A lease company will claim the vat back.
The reason it is, in the case of the C250cdi estate, 252+vat is the are hiring you something, and everything is vat'able if whether it is a product or a service, if you are vat registered, which all lease companies will be.
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      11-02-2011, 04:08 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew@DTUK View Post
Hi Richard, I used www.pantheonleasing.co.uk ask for Martyn, he's a true gent.

Do you have the same username over in mbclub.co.uk?
Yes sorry Andrew I didn't make the connection.

I've got a C350CDI Sport Estate on order which won't arrive until December, and I'm carless now so it's very tempting to cancel and get of these. I'll give Martyn a call on Monday.
Order placed today Andrew! I think Martyn owes you a few drinks . Unfortunately they didn't have any 'standard' cars left so I had to pay slightly more for one with:
CLS350CDi BlueEFFICIENCY 4dr Tip Auto
Tenorite Grey with black leather, 6CD, telephone prep, Heated front seats, LED intelligent lighting system, R82 19 5 spoke design Alloy wheels


They had a choice of a few with various options, I was keen to get one with the LED headlights. It worked out cheaper to get it on higher mileage than pay the excess. I got mine on 20K PA.

So next question... What are you going to do about tuning yours
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      11-02-2011, 04:36 PM   #61
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Order placed today Andrew! I think Martyn owes you a few drinks . Unfortunately they didn't have any 'standard' cars left so I had to pay slightly more for one with:
CLS350CDi BlueEFFICIENCY 4dr Tip Auto
Tenorite Grey with black leather, 6CD, telephone prep, Heated front seats, LED intelligent lighting system, R82 19” 5 spoke design Alloy wheels


They had a choice of a few with various options, I was keen to get one with the LED headlights. It worked out cheaper to get it on higher mileage than pay the excess. I got mine on 20K PA.

So next question... What are you going to do about tuning yours
Hi richard,

I wish I'd known about the cars with options as I really wanted the led lights, but did get the heated seats, 6cd and ambient lighting chucked in for free

If you dont mind me asking, was there much of a difference in the price between 10 and 20k pa?

And what are you paying for yours if ou don't mind me asking..

As for tuning, I'll be adding One of these..

http://www.diesel-performance.co.uk/...ails.php?id=10

And one of these..


http://www.diesel-performance.co.uk/...ails.php?id=15
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      11-02-2011, 04:44 PM   #62
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I was amazed at how small a jump was adding extra miles.
30 a month to get it up to 18k miles a year on an e350cdi.
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      11-02-2011, 04:56 PM   #63
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So next question... What are you going to do about tuning yours
Surely there is only one option on the 350CDI

Get the dealer to fit the Brabus D6 box before you take delivery which will take you to 315bhp whilst keeping your warranty intact.
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      11-02-2011, 05:01 PM   #64
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Hi richard,

I wish I'd known about the cars with options as I really wanted the led lights, but did get the heated seats, 6cd and ambient lighting chucked in for free

If you dont mind me asking, was there much of a difference in the price between 10 and 20k pa?

And what are you paying for yours if ou don't mind me asking..
A few of the remaining cars had the LED lights. None had the HK sound system or folding rear seats I would also have liked though. I tried to go for a black car first but in the time it took me to complete the paperwork it had gone. Apparently 7 of the 10 cars they had went today.

Price worked out as:

INITIAL PAYMENT: *1551 inc vat (equal to 3 rentals)
MONTHLY PAYMENTS: 11 at *517 including vat 10k PA
15k- 560 including vat
20k- 602 including vat

16p excess per mile.

I normally do 18K PA so technically I should have gone for 15k and paid the excess but if I went over that I'd have been out of pocket. I thought I'd pay up front and then not care how much I used it.
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      11-02-2011, 05:12 PM   #65
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Quote:
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A few of the remaining cars had the LED lights. None had the HK sound system or folding rear seats I would also have liked though. I tried to go for a black car first but in the time it took me to complete the paperwork it had gone. Apparently 7 of the 10 cars they had went today.

Price worked out as:

INITIAL PAYMENT: *1551 inc vat (equal to 3 rentals)
MONTHLY PAYMENTS: 11 at *517 including vat 10k PA
15k- 560 including vat
20k- 602 including vat

16p excess per mile.

I normally do 18K PA so technically I should have gone for 15k and paid the excess but if I went over that I'd have been out of pocket. I thought I'd pay up front and then not care how much I used it.
So when are you hoping to get yours?

I'm trying to organise collecting ours on Saturday as I have an A5 to drop off into Bath Audi, failing that they'll deliver it up to Durhm next Thursday.

Well have to keep in touch, so we can do a double deal in 12 months time.
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      11-02-2011, 05:26 PM   #66
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My preference would be the 25th assuming future payments would then come out on the same date, i.e. when I get paid! I did think of getting the train down to pick it up so I'd get the show room experience.

I'm trying to talk the misses into getting the SLK200
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