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      05-08-2007, 12:33 PM   #1
klock379
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Angry Town and Country in Toronto = BAD experience

Folks,

Sorry for the long post. This is a letter I sent to Town and Country BMW complaining about their business practices. Names and some financial terms are deliberately omitted in the post.


Dear Mr. M,

This is a complain letter regarding my recent failed business transaction with Town and Country BMW (TCBMW). Please consider this letter as a formal termination of the lease offer with cause.

On Feb 22, 2007, with the assistance of the new car specialist Mr. H and the business manager Ms. C, I entered into a new car leasing agreement with TCBWM for a 335i Coupe. The delivery date was verbally set on May 2007.

On April 30, after I have persistently trying to contact Mr. H for 1 ½ weeks, clearly stating my interest in finding out the Production Number and VIN, I finally received a verbal notification that my car will not be available in May. Please bear in mind that it was weeks from the proposed delivery date yet I had to make numerous phone calls and leave several voice mails before discovering the delay, as opposed to being contacted by Mr. H or TCBMW proactively and alerted me of the situation.

On May 3, I arrived at TCBMW in person and discussed with Mr. H reasons of the delay and changes that may impact the deal. At that time I was told (after I brought up the topic myself) that my current rate was locked down for 90 days only and it would be long expired by the time I took delivery of the car in June/July. My contract would then be subjected to the new 7.75% lease rate. Mr. H seemed to understand my frustration and said he would do what was in his power to ensure that my monthly payment would not be affected. I agreed to consider his offer over the weekend.

On May 5 (Saturday), Mr. H phoned me in the morning regarding the availability of a similar car that had just become available. My wife and I went to TCBMW immediate, only to learn from Mr. H that the car had already been sold to another buyer who was in a similar situation like us. However, we did appreciate Mr. H’s effort in trying to satisfy our needs. Although that car had more options and packages than the one that we ordered, Mr. H managed to offer us a very attractive and reasonable price; unfortunately timing was not on our side.

We then proceeded with the discussion of some finer details of my situation, including the financial one. First, we were finally being provided with a production number. We were told that the car was “guaranteed” to be built in June and shipped in July. Financially, Mr. H could only provide me with 4% discount on the MSRP and there was nothing he could do to honour the lease rate as “it is controlled by BMW Finance and non-negotiable” – so we were told. He was sympathetic to our dilemma and seemed genuine in his effort to help us. However we left the dealership with the knowledge that the new monthly payment will be increased by $30.

On May 7 (Monday), I contacted Mr. H at 9:30am stated my dissatisfaction with the new arrangement. I told Mr. H that I was not going to accept those terms. Mr. H volunteered to discuss the matter with management and promised he would contact me on the same day with an answer. I phoned Mr. H at 4:15pm, 5:10pm at the office line and 5:15pm at his cell phone, left him messages reminding him that I was still awaiting for a reply, but to no avail. I even mentioned in the one of the voice mails that should I not receive a reply from him that day, I would consider it as an indication that TCBMW was unable to provide a reasonable offer.

Hence my letter to you today.

If Mr. H’s business ethics and lack of concern over customer satisfaction is a representation of how TCBMW conducts its business, just as TCBMW being a representative of BMW, then I am afraid that BMW and I, dare I assume the general public, have diametrically opposed definitions of consumer rights. In this case, a dealership, or individual(s) working for the said dealership, first failed to deliver goods as dictated in a legally binding contract, then made a blatant attempt to take advantage of its customer through underhanded sleigh-of-hand tricks by charging a higher price for the same goods at a delayed delivery date. As a customer, I suspect this dealership or individual(s) representing it is deliberately holding back on delivery to drive up demand and urgency in order to unfairly and unethically profit from the situation. It is obvious that TCBMW or Mr. H was trying to sell production slots to the highest bidders with this shell game, using interest rates and delivery dates as incentive and bargaining chips. If Mr. H’s assertion regarding corporate BMW financial policy is to be believed, then it will lead me to conclude this unscrupulous practice is approved or encouraged by BMW Canada, tacitly or otherwise.

Ironically, I was penalized again and again for nothing other than wanting to own a BMW, by none other than BMW itself! Not only was I not being compensated for having to wait two extra summer months due to the supposed fault of BMW (the supply shortage, according to Mr. H), I was asked to pay more than what was clearly stated in the Lease Offer, which is a binding contract. Though the timing of delivery was never under my influence, and I had never once caused the delivery delay in the last 3 months, yet TCBMW created a situation where I was forced to accept a higher interest rate in order to purchase the privilege of holding on the production slot promised me back in February. I was hijacked, fleeced and taken advantage of by TCBMW as they were determined to hold me hostage for their blatant mistakes, inadequacies or bureaucratic mishaps. The mere fact that I was being offered this new “deal” was an insult, and my consumer rights were gravely violated! It was a clear indication that the Leasing Agreement was nothing but a weapon for the dealership to swindle and exploit its customers. Here, I question if this is an example of the BMW corporate culture? Is this how TCBWM and BMW value their customers?
At this time, I can assure you that this experience with TCBMW is by far the worst - what supposed to be a joyous and exciting adventure has become a dreadful and aggravating incident. I have seen my shares of bad deals in the past but no sellers have ever insulted me the way TCBMW and BMW have. I was appalled to learn that TCBMW and BMW held such low esteem of their business images, both collectively and individually.

As much as we would like to become owners of this fine BMW car, we also have to count our blessings that this purchase was purely one of pleasure, not of necessity. Therefore, there is no reason for my wife and me to subject ourselves to TCBMW and BMW’s mistreatment and what seemingly questionable business practices.

You may regard this as a written notice of my termination of the lease offer with cause, as requested by the said offer in the Additional Terms section, Item 9. Reasons for the termination are:

i. The delay in the delivery of the vehicle
ii. Unilateral alteration of contract terms
iii. Unreasonable and unethical demand for additional payments through higher interest rate in order to secure a production slot

I expect full refund of my deposit within 3 business days.

In summary, through this incident I found TCBMW lacking in common business courtesy in business communications, unmotivated to maintain customer satisfaction, and demonstrating a very low regard for their customers as nothing less than hapless victims to be fleeced and manipulated. I also found a lack of transparency and honesty in the way TCBMW (or BMW Canada at large) handled this incident as they were far too eager to exploit their customers for short term gains, and had no intention of retaining their long-term loyalty. Given the highly competitive luxury car market, I cannot help but to wonder how BMW hopes to increase market share against stiff competitors that place customer satisfaction above all else?

I will provide a copy of this letter to BMW Canada and BMW International. Also, I will not hesitate to share my experience in any online forum, printed media, medium of any form, and any consumer review/alert.

Thank you for your attention and your prompt response. I can be reached at XXX-XXX-XXXX should you have any question or comment.

Sincerely,
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Last edited by klock379; 05-08-2007 at 01:47 PM.
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      05-08-2007, 01:03 PM   #2
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WOW! very well written

I am sure many people will re-use parts of your letter when dealing with their particular issue with TC or other BMW dealerships.

I don't think this is a TC issue ... I had simliar problems with another BMW dealership ... i was suprised to see such a lack of honesty, integrity and responsiveness from a luxury car dealership ... i makes me wonder if people buying/leasing a M6, M5 or 7-series get the same treatment as someone buying a 3-series BMW
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      05-08-2007, 01:29 PM   #3
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Ok I guess I'm not getting my BMW from those guys.
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      05-08-2007, 01:39 PM   #4
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Thank you, and they are welcome to do so.

To continue with the story: the letter was emailed to all managers and the general manager of TC last night, and I placed a call to BMW Canada to file my complaint. The lady whom I spoke with said she would contact TC and asked Mr. H to response or acknowledge my complaint. I said don't bother, because I don't think Mr. H knows how to operate phones or cell phones, it would be better to have one of the sales managers to contact me. Hours have passed and I have yet to hear a beep from TC. No doubt they have already sold my product slot to another buyer and made a hefty profit.

Speaking of the production number I have an interesting fact to share: When I logged the complaint with BMW Canada I naturally asked for a case number. Lady said I could just use the production number as the reference number in the future. GREAT SYSTEM! Considering the fact that the product number is no longer mine as I have terminated my order.
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      05-08-2007, 03:05 PM   #5
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Sorry to hear that... Like u said, buying a new car should be way less stressful than this.
No one should take this personally, but it is VERY hard to find an honest sales person, be it cars/houses/etc.
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      05-08-2007, 03:10 PM   #6
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Not that it helps your situation, but I bought my 335xi from TC BMW and didn't have any problems, so far it has been a good experience. But I didn't have Mr. H, I had a Mr.W and Mr.Y

I've been to other places where I knew right off the bat the sales person didn't give a crap, so I kept looking until I found somebody I felt comfortable with, but of course you never know what you'll get after you put your deposit down.

Good luck!
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      05-08-2007, 03:34 PM   #7
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This is one of the main reasons we didn't go to TC to get our car. After several visits (which we deeply regret), we were treated like crap. The salespeople there with the exception of one were so cocky. Their attitude toward potential customers (and now even their own customers) is absolutely disgusting. I sure as hell hope their service department is different.. but I'm not holding my breath.
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      05-08-2007, 03:45 PM   #8
klock379
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oh Mr. H gave me all the warm and fuzzy, but when the deal got tough he just hightailed out of there. TC maintained its see-no-evil, hear-no-evil policy.

EDIT: Just got a call from TC finally. nothing resolved (and I was not expecting) but at least my concerns and complains have been received and acknowledged.
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Last edited by klock379; 05-08-2007 at 04:54 PM.
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      05-08-2007, 03:52 PM   #9
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T & C

I bought my 2000 from T & C without having any issues. I bought my '07 from BMW Autohaus on Steeles simply because they are closer to my home.

I do have one minor complaint though......why do the sales people have to bring the managers over to be introduced even before I've said that I'm going to buy a vehicle? Am I supposed to feel loved or impressed? Talk about sucking up! I hate this practice - it's unnecessary and demeaning.

If I ran a dealership, I'd give the sales people price ranges to work with and they would have the power to close all deals that fell within those ranges. No manager, no sucking up.

P
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      05-08-2007, 04:59 PM   #10
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Sorry to hear your problem... I've also purchased from TCBMW but I could say the service was good and communication excellent. I didn't deal with Mr. H but dealt with someone else. If anyone wants to purchase from TCBMW I will send you a really good sales person to deal with.

Sorry to hear about your problem, will you be placing your order with another dealership?
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      05-08-2007, 06:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodigy View Post
Sorry to hear your problem... I've also purchased from TCBMW but I could say the service was good and communication excellent. I didn't deal with Mr. H but dealt with someone else. If anyone wants to purchase from TCBMW I will send you a really good sales person to deal with.

Sorry to hear about your problem, will you be placing your order with another dealership?
Not sure, too soon to tell. My decision will be based on how this matter will be resolved - if BMW or TCBMW can provide me with a satisfactory explanation I may consider ordering it again in the future. By then, I will surely ask the forum for a reputable rep!

Cheers
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      05-09-2007, 12:49 AM   #12
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I just bought mine from TCBMW on Kennedy and 407. I can say that the service there was pretty good. Better than all the other places I went to. Im 22 and I look a lot younger even when I dress to impress but TCBMW always treated me very well right from the moment i walked into the showroom. Out of all the places I went to; Lexus, BMW, Acura, Audi, VW, Infiniti, BMW treated me the best. Don Valley Lexus was second, Audi was alright although I never got a call back from them, and North Toronto Acura were all just jackasses. Didn't pay attention to me whatsoever when I walked into the showroom. I spent 15 minutes looking around waiting for someone to approach me until I finally decided to get out of there. Stupid thing is I owned an Acura RSX Type S before buying the BMW so it wasn't like I couldn't afford one. Infiniti at Yonge and Steeles was horrible too. When I asked if I could take the G35 out for a test drive the sales guy looked at his manger, smiled, turned to me and gave me some bullshit about how I have to book an appointment to test drive his car. After which he made up some excuse about how they didn't have any RWD ones and only AWD and it wouldn't be the same. He agreed to let me take the AWD one out and when I went back to sit in his office to discuss pricing he asked me why I didn't want the AWD one. He asked "Is it cuz you wanna keep the price down and low?". Jeeze I just wanted a RWD car. If I wanted to keep the price low you think i'd be looking at an infiniti!?

Of course looking young and inexperienced I pretty much got the "hah yea right you're gonna buy our car??" kinda look from all them but even so it was the TCBMW CA that really made an effort to get my sale. Sorry about the long post I just never got a chance to rant about dealers treating younger consumers with no respect.
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      05-09-2007, 02:05 AM   #13
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Once you are a T&C customer, they generally treat you well. Like Gguie, I was 22 when I bought my E90 and I have to admit, the general attitude during the purchase process was like they didn't really care whether I bought the car from them or not (and I really really wanted one too!). However, after purchasing, I found that the service from the service department was substantially better compared to the sales department. I think T&C needs to bring the attitude level of its sales staff down a notch and remember that they need to treat customers with respect and not the "just to make a sale or move on" attitude.
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      05-09-2007, 08:14 AM   #14
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my 0.02, T&C sales treated me very nicely
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      05-09-2007, 08:25 AM   #15
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My family's first BMW was purchased at T&C, and they were really nice too. The salesperson is one of my favourite. After me and my dad test drove it, he said "let me show you guys something", and then got in the car, punched it to a hundred, let go of it hands and then slammed the brakes . The car was for my mom's birthday too, so he tried very hard to get it here before that too, and he was able to do it. Everytime we go in for service, if he sees us, he will come and say hi to us as well. So of course, when I got mine, it was with him as well, and I got a pretty good discount :rocks: .
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      05-10-2007, 11:21 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 328Toronto View Post
WOW! very well written

I am sure many people will re-use parts of your letter when dealing with their particular issue with TC or other BMW dealerships.

I don't think this is a TC issue ... I had simliar problems with another BMW dealership ... i was suprised to see such a lack of honesty, integrity and responsiveness from a luxury car dealership ... i makes me wonder if people buying/leasing a M6, M5 or 7-series get the same treatment as someone buying a 3-series BMW
I wouldn't recommend anyone reuses this letter, since it's unlikely to deliver any kind of positive result. No offence to the OP, but it's way too long and the tone is likely to make the relationship between you and the dealer 10 times worse than it already is. It's also a bad idea to fill the letter with threats and pseudo-legal verbiage, since it makes the letter difficult to read and seem unprofessional.

As justified as it may be, you're also insulting T&C throughout the letter, so they really have little or no incentive to respond positively. IMHO, it would have been far better to have requested a sit-down meeting with the GM or Sales Manager and calmly explained the situation, presenting two options: resolve the situation by getting me a car in a way that works for both of us, or let's both walk away and tear up the original lease agreement.

Flame away...
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      05-10-2007, 12:10 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aspiring335 View Post
I wouldn't recommend anyone reuses this letter, since it's unlikely to deliver any kind of positive result. No offence to the OP, but it's way too long and the tone is likely to make the relationship between you and the dealer 10 times worse than it already is. It's also a bad idea to fill the letter with threats and pseudo-legal verbiage, since it makes the letter difficult to read and seem unprofessional.

As justified as it may be, you're also insulting T&C throughout the letter, so they really have little or no incentive to respond positively. IMHO, it would have been far better to have requested a sit-down meeting with the GM or Sales Manager and calmly explained the situation, presenting two options: resolve the situation by getting me a car in a way that works for both of us, or let's both walk away and tear up the original lease agreement.

Flame away...

+1
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      05-10-2007, 01:06 PM   #18
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I had no problem with T&C BMW.. I guess it all depend on which sales consultant you talk to.
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      05-10-2007, 01:27 PM   #19
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Aspiring335,

I understand your points and let me just make one thing clear to everyone.

This letter was my way to express my displeasure of dealing with TCBMW. As I was composing the letter I had already decided that I would terminate my business relationship with TCBMW. I was not planning to use this letter as a tool to threaten TCBMW and make them comply to my demands as I have none. It was the same position that I took when I talked to BMW Canada and TCBMW sales manager. My message has been clear and consistent, "I don't want the car, give me back my deposit." I mean it.

I know my position may seem odd to some of you because it is very blunt and uncompromised. But as I said, this purchase is one of pleasure, not necessity. When there is no pleasure in this business transaction, then there is no reason for the transaction at all. I am glad that I have the luxury of taking this strong stance.

Thank you for listening.
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      05-10-2007, 01:36 PM   #20
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We've gotten 2 of our BMW's from them. However whenever I stroll in by myself they don't really come to see me right away. And when I do get noticed, it's usually one of those ladies that come upto me and ask if I needed some help. It could be 'cause I'm only 21, but still. I think that's madd fucken ignorant.
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      05-10-2007, 02:07 PM   #21
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if you had taken the time it took you to write these long ass letters and replies and use it to go to other dealerships to see if they can order a car for you, you wouldn't be so unhappy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by klock379 View Post
Aspiring335,

I understand your points and let me just make one thing clear to everyone.

This letter was my way to express my displeasure of dealing with TCBMW. As I was composing the letter I had already decided that I would terminate my business relationship with TCBMW. I was not planning to use this letter as a tool to threaten TCBMW and make them comply to my demands as I have none. It was the same position that I took when I talked to BMW Canada and TCBMW sales manager. My message has been clear and consistent, "I don't want the car, give me back my deposit." I mean it.

I know my position may seem odd to some of you because it is very blunt and uncompromised. But as I said, this purchase is one of pleasure, not necessity. When there is no pleasure in this business transaction, then there is no reason for the transaction at all. I am glad that I have the luxury of taking this strong stance.

Thank you for listening.
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      05-13-2007, 09:01 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klock379 View Post
oh Mr. H gave me all the warm and fuzzy, but when the deal got tough he just hightailed out of there. TC maintained its see-no-evil, hear-no-evil policy.

EDIT: Just got a call from TC finally. nothing resolved (and I was not expecting) but at least my concerns and complains have been received and acknowledged.
This is funny. I saw your contract the day you bought the car. I bought on the 22nd as well and ordered the same color and and interior trim as you. Did he show you the car ready for pick up? I assume Mr. H is who I dealt with as well. Worst service I have ever received in my life. Not once has he returned a call or email, even after I went in to see him in person. I will be cancelling the order as well on principle. No way is he or T&C getting a dime of my mine, except the interest they have earned on my deposit.

Did you also get the numerous emails and letter in the mail about them purchasing the VW dealership next door? Most contact I have gotten from them since I bought.
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