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      05-09-2007, 06:05 PM   #23
Driver72
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You are going to get a hundred different people responding to this 50% will say change it early, the other 50% will say change it with 5K miles or more.

Do what I did, split the difference and change the oil somewhere around 2-2500 miles.

Either way, it'll be fine.

Changing the oil at 500 miles surely won't make a car burn oil. But it's probably completely unnecessary, but at the same time probably couldn't hurt. You'll more than likely just be unnecessarily making the oil companies richer. They still want you to believe you NEED to change the oil in your car every 3 months or 3K miles too!

Change it at 2K-2.5K miles and then every 5K or so after that with 100% fully synthetic oil.
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      05-09-2007, 06:06 PM   #24
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+1 I doubt that VERY much! Why would they bother?
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      05-09-2007, 07:34 PM   #25
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quote from http://www.royalpurple.com/techa/faqsa.html#mo3

Quote:
Can I put Royal Purple into my brand new car?

Yes. Royal Purple currently offers many viscosity grades of API Licensed Motor Oils. To allow for proper break in of the engine, Royal Purple recommends waiting until the manufacturer’s first scheduled oil change or a minimum of 2,000 miles in new gasoline engines. Allow 8,000 to 10,000 miles before using Royal Purple in diesel engines.

How often should I change Royal Purple in my passenger car?

Royal Purple recommends following the manufacturer’s maintenance intervals while the vehicle is under factory warranty. In clean engines that are no longer under warranty, oil change intervals may be extended up to every 12,000 miles or annually, witch ever comes first. Oil filter changes should be done as recommended by the filter's manufacturer and oil should be topped-off as needed.

In dirty engines, Royal Purple recommends standard 3,000 to 5,000 mile oil and filter change intervals until the engine oiling system is clean and free of deposits left by lower quality oils and / or poor maintenance or mechanical problems. This will allow time to gradually remove existing deposits without overloading the oiling system. Mechanical problems such as fuel dilution, coolant leaks into the crankcase, poor air filtration and / or failure to maintain proper oil level are all detrimental factors to the service life of any engine oil. Any one of these factors can significantly shorten the useful service life of any oil.
I do believe there is a break-in additive added to the standard oil at the factory so it is probably good to leave it in for a while. I have the factory service manuals for some of my other cars and on a rebuild it does list a break-in additive to put in the oil after a rebuild. I think most of us do feel uncomfortable about the 15000 mile limit. There was another thread about this recently and the individual changed his at 1200 miles and used Royal Purple and that is why I went to the link above to learn about it. Unfortunately I would be careful about what oil I used. This oil only has the standard API rating and nothing else as far as I could find. Other then the factory oil the only other I could find that was approved was 0-40W Mobile 1. None of the other Mobil 1 oils even meet the BMW LL01 spec. This spec is difficult to meet because of the High Temperature High Shear requirements. I think it is a value of 3.5 minimum at 150 C. Oils that meet the ACEA A3 spec probably will meet ths LL-01 spec. Most oils won't.
When I got my new Cooper S MINI there were similar discussions about oils and oil change intervals. Another thing to look out for with some of these oils that don't have all the manufacture ratings is the additive package. Some promote longer life and low wear. They achieve this by adding extra additives. This sounds good right? Well sometimes they can not meet the specs set by the manufacture because the problem is there are to much of the additives. The result is the small quantity of oil that is burned in the combustion chamber leaves behind deposits from these additives that contaminate the spark plug and in the case of the 335 the HPI injectors. I would suspect these are pricey to replace. If you look at the technical documentation for the N54 engine there are specific warnings to the mechanics not to use any chemicals on the injectors or to attempt to clean them. This will distort the spray pattern resulting in spark plug damage in some cases. Also in the same document it describes the special small spark plugs used in this engine. They even require a special wrench to remove them because of their size. Just some things to think about when selecting oil for your next oil change. All oils are not created equal. This is a very high tech engine. I would be careful about telling my SA about my great and frequent oil changes unless I am filling it with the correct oil. I also suspect the average tech today knows less about the internals of a BMW engine since in most case the engine or transmission is just replaced with a remanufatured unit and not rebuilt at the dealer like in the old days.

Those interested should read the documents here:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38856
Look at the engine management doc starting on pages 32 and 38.

Just my 2 cents.
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      05-09-2007, 08:54 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoostedInPhx View Post
quote from http://www.royalpurple.com/techa/faqsa.html#mo3



I do believe there is a break-in additive added to the standard oil at the factory so it is probably good to leave it in for a while. I have the factory service manuals for some of my other cars and on a rebuild it does list a break-in additive to put in the oil after a rebuild. I think most of us do feel uncomfortable about the 15000 mile limit. There was another thread about this recently and the individual changed his at 1200 miles and used Royal Purple and that is why I went to the link above to learn about it. Unfortunately I would be careful about what oil I used. This oil only has the standard API rating and nothing else as far as I could find. Other then the factory oil the only other I could find that was approved was 0-40W Mobile 1. None of the other Mobil 1 oils even meet the BMW LL01 spec. This spec is difficult to meet because of the High Temperature High Shear requirements. I think it is a value of 3.5 minimum at 150 C. Oils that meet the ACEA A3 spec probably will meet ths LL-01 spec. Most oils won't.
When I got my new Cooper S MINI there were similar discussions about oils and oil change intervals. Another thing to look out for with some of these oils that don't have all the manufacture ratings is the additive package. Some promote longer life and low wear. They achieve this by adding extra additives. This sounds good right? Well sometimes they can not meet the specs set by the manufacture because the problem is there are to much of the additives. The result is the small quantity of oil that is burned in the combustion chamber leaves behind deposits from these additives that contaminate the spark plug and in the case of the 335 the HPI injectors. I would suspect these are pricey to replace. If you look at the technical documentation for the N54 engine there are specific warnings to the mechanics not to use any chemicals on the injectors or to attempt to clean them. This will distort the spray pattern resulting in spark plug damage in some cases. Also in the same document it describes the special small spark plugs used in this engine. They even require a special wrench to remove them because of their size. Just some things to think about when selecting oil for your next oil change. All oils are not created equal. This is a very high tech engine. I would be careful about telling my SA about my great and frequent oil changes unless I am filling it with the correct oil. I also suspect the average tech today knows less about the internals of a BMW engine since in most case the engine or transmission is just replaced with a remanufatured unit and not rebuilt at the dealer like in the old days.

Those interested should read the documents here:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38856
Look at the engine management doc starting on pages 32 and 38.

Just my 2 cents.
Excellent post. Thank you! I was also interested in early oil change and my search came back with similar results. BMW does put break-in additive in the oil to help with break-in process. There is one more thing you should consider when deciding at what mileage to perform first oil change. If you babied your car thru beak-in process logic dictates that your break-in would be longer compared to somebody else who does hard break-in. One can be done with his break-in at 300 miles while somebody else did not even start driving his/her car at 2000 miles. In my case I probably fall somewhere in between and will be changing oil at 2000-2500 miles for the first time. Also, if you are REALLY interested at what mileage you should do first oil change you can search for many oil analyses on this site. Well, I did anyway. I probably did not check them all but I came to a conclusion that 5k plus oil change test results were not that great. So, I am not waiting until 5K miles. But that is me; you should do whatever makes you feel better.
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      05-09-2007, 09:21 PM   #27
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I have a friend who just purchased an Audi A3 S-Line.

Audi does not offer free oil changes -- however, after break-in at ~1200miles they still do a free oil change. Then its every 12K.

My brother just purchased a R56 Mini Cooper S. After talking to the Mini Service guy about what he should and should not do, the service advisor recommended an oil change after the break-in. My brother asked, if its required, why doesn't Mini pay for it. He got a blank stare -- then the SA offered him the oil change for 1/2 price after the break-in and even gave him a piece of paper to keep his promise.

Acura/Lexus I believe are still on the 5K for every oil change schedule and on some Lexus models they do offer a free oil change after break-in (at least that is what they are giving someone I work with).

So, Audi gives you a free oil change, the Mini SA had second thoughts and is willing to help with a half price change and even Lexus is giving a free oil change after break in.

Myth or Myth busted

My parents have had several 5-series both before and after the free break in period oil change and they continue to take it in at 1200 miles for an oil change -- because they are returning customers they have been always able to negociate for a the free oil change after break-in and the sales person has never even blinked.

I am sure there is at least one BMW engineer and one BMW accountant who knows the truth -- in the meantime I feel it is cheap insurance. I would not worry about the strict 1200 mile rule but by 2K or 2500K I would get the oil changed or do it yourself.

My Mom's current 5 has 250,000 miles and she has faithfully changed the oil at every 7,500mile which for her is about once every 6-month give or take a month.
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      05-09-2007, 09:51 PM   #28
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This dealer's "advice" is absolute BS! Assuming that you change oil with BMW approved lubricant, there is no way that new oil will screw up your rings! I repeat, this is pure BS! Heaven only knows where some dealers hire their service advisors from. You would think that he would ENCOURAGE you to change your oil, since you will pay for anything out of sequence with what your car's computer specifies. I repeat again, pure BS! If half of these idiots were required to back up their outrageous statements with facts, they would run for cover. Again, pure BS! Change your oil whenever you feel like it. It may not be necessary, but if you feel the urge, do it. Just use whatever oil BMW recommends. Your car will love you for it.
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      05-09-2007, 10:05 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeTerp View Post
This dealer's "advice" is absolute BS! Assuming that you change oil with BMW approved lubricant, there is no way that new oil will screw up your rings! I repeat, this is pure BS! Heaven only knows where some dealers hire their service advisors from. You would think that he would ENCOURAGE you to change your oil, since you will pay for anything out of sequence with what your car's computer specifies. I repeat again, pure BS! If half of these idiots were required to back up their outrageous statements with facts, they would run for cover. Again, pure BS! Change your oil whenever you feel like it. It may not be necessary, but if you feel the urge, do it. Just use whatever oil BMW recommends. Your car will love you for it.
No one has said it would screw up rings, what has been mentioned is it will prevent seating of the oil ring, not damage them.
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      05-09-2007, 10:22 PM   #30
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People!!! Understand 3 very basic facts:

1. The factory that built the car knows how to deal with it best PERIOD

2. If you follow BMW intervals, your engine will outlive just about everything in your car including your own interest in owning it.

3. BMW Dealer machanics are mostly "learn by the book" types and often are trained to shoot out BS information just shut the customer up.

7 years from now you are going to be driving the "last" generation 3 series and drooling over the "next" generation of the 3 series, meanwhile your engine is going to be running better than it did when you first got the car, which still isn't going to prevent you from trading it in for the new car.

Save your money, and spend it on something else - like a classic car.
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      05-09-2007, 11:08 PM   #31
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Wow, what a crazy post. Like the lease vs. buy scenarios, the what octane must I use in my twin turbo posts, the is $500 over invoice with or without MACO and training fees, i.e. all the ridiculous posts where any answer is ok, when in reality there is one answer. Like asking what time is it, and not being able to agree what the source should be.

To argue that a 1,500 mi. oil change is unnecessary, perhaps. To say it's a waste of money, probably. To say that doing so will cause the rings to not seal properly, stupid. To try to make us feel guilty for doing a break-in oil change, priceless.
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      05-10-2007, 09:18 AM   #32
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oil? who said something bout oil? you cookin??
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      05-10-2007, 09:45 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noro View Post
People!!! Understand 3 very basic facts:

1. The factory that built the car knows how to deal with it best PERIOD
.
Im sure they know how to handle a turbo engine... 15k oil changes lets be realistic. they know how to handle their 4/50 (in their best interest). Do a search on FI and oil changes... BMW can preach whatever they want the fact is oil will gain deposits, loose additives, and the filters will loose flowrate.
non turbo cars with synthetic can go 15-20k miles... with recommended filter changes turbo cars are a whole different animal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noro View Post
2. If you follow BMW intervals, your engine will outlive just about everything in your car including your own interest in owning it.
.
highly doubt it. look at the past BMW that followed the recommended oil change intervals and received gunk throughout the engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noro View Post
3. BMW Dealer machanics are mostly "learn by the book" types and often are trained to shoot out BS information just shut the customer up.
.
I'm confident if the 15k oil changes is followed and the purchaser is planning on selling the car in 3,4,5,6 years it wont make a difference... however once you get 80k miles those engine will be gunked up big time @ which time it doesnt matter to the original owner since he's selling it. so yes if you dont plan on running your car into the ground just follow the recommended schedules.

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      05-10-2007, 09:46 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by msinfo_us View Post
Excellent post. Thank you! I was also interested in early oil change and my search came back with similar results. BMW does put break-in additive in the oil to help with break-in process. There is one more thing you should consider when deciding at what mileage to perform first oil change. If you babied your car thru beak-in process logic dictates that your break-in would be longer compared to somebody else who does hard break-in. One can be done with his break-in at 300 miles while somebody else did not even start driving his/her car at 2000 miles. In my case I probably fall somewhere in between and will be changing oil at 2000-2500 miles for the first time. Also, if you are REALLY interested at what mileage you should do first oil change you can search for many oil analyses on this site. Well, I did anyway. I probably did not check them all but I came to a conclusion that 5k plus oil change test results were not that great. So, I am not waiting until 5K miles. But that is me; you should do whatever makes you feel better.
msinfo,
I don't follow your logic. Assuming that BMW does put in "break-in" additive then presumably that corresponds to BMW's recommend first oil change interval, 15k right? IIUC, royalpurple also recommends following BMW's recommendation. 15k, right?
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      05-10-2007, 10:49 AM   #35
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msinfo,
I don't follow your logic. Assuming that BMW does put in "break-in" additive then presumably that corresponds to BMW's recommend first oil change interval, 15k right? IIUC, royalpurple also recommends following BMW's recommendation. 15k, right?
No, not really. The 15K interval is for REGULAR oil change (which waaaaayyyyy too looooooong anyway) and break-in interval would be part of it for the first time but I would not go as far as saying it translate directly that you should not change your oil for 15K.
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      05-10-2007, 11:23 AM   #36
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My BMW Free Scheduled Maintenance Plan so far:

7/06......20K miles oil change + car wash
1/07......30K miles Inspection Only + car wash........NO OIL CHANGE!!!
7/07......45K miles oil change + car wash

* I do my own oil change every 5k miles
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Last edited by NaTuReB0Y; 05-10-2007 at 11:48 AM.
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      05-10-2007, 11:33 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NaTuReB0Y View Post
My BMW Free Scheduled Maintenance Plan so far:

7/06......15K miles oil change + car wash
1/07......30K miles Inspection Only + car wash........NO OIL CHANGE!!!
7/07......45K miles oil change + car wash

* I do my own oil change every 5k miles
First thing, how the heck did BMW allow 30.000 miles between oil changes whether you changed it or not? Did you inform them that you changed your own oil or did the oil quality sensor tell them it didn't need changing?

Secondly, this whole oil change after break-in seems like the glass is half empty or half full debate.

I was at the parts counter today and asked about oil change after break-in. I was told that one of the techs has a new 3 series and he changed oil after break-in. I also questioned my CA and he said you're good till 15K!

Bottom line is, do whatever gives you piece of mind. If I was leasing mine, I wouldn't have a problem with a 15K change. Since I own it and plan to keep it for the long haul, I will change it before the 15K interval. I'm just at what the "right" time to change it will be. Probably between now(1200) and 5000.
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      05-10-2007, 11:39 AM   #38
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I've known people (stupid people that is) who've gone 150,000 miles without changing their oil... They just continually add oil as it burns off....
I agree that 15000 miles is pretty rediculous oil change interval, however these motors are pretty bullet proof. It's everything else outside of the motor that you need to worry about like: automatic transmission fluid, clutches, water pumps, fuel pumps, radiators, suspension, steering, and just about anything else that is a moving part.... It's these things that start to fail LONG before the motor will.
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      05-10-2007, 11:48 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STE92VE View Post
First thing, how the heck did BMW allow 30.000 miles between oil changes whether you changed it or not? Did you inform them that you changed your own oil or did the oil quality sensor tell them it didn't need changing?

Secondly, this whole oil change after break-in seems like the glass is half empty or half full debate.

I was at the parts counter today and asked about oil change after break-in. I was told that one of the techs has a new 3 series and he changed oil after break-in. I also questioned my CA and he said you're good till 15K!

Bottom line is, do whatever gives you piece of mind. If I was leasing mine, I wouldn't have a problem with a 15K change. Since I own it and plan to keep it for the long haul, I will change it before the 15K interval. I'm just at what the "right" time to change it will be. Probably between now(1200) and 5000.
1st) They wouldn't changed my oil at 30K miles because Inspection I is purely inspection.......2nd) They wouldn't changed my oil at 30K miles because I just got a free oil change 6 months ago.

** Correction: My first free oil change was at 20K miles....not 15k miles.
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      05-10-2007, 12:44 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NaTuReB0Y View Post
1st) They wouldn't changed my oil at 30K miles because Inspection I is purely inspection.......2nd) They wouldn't changed my oil at 30K miles because I just got a free oil change 6 months ago.

** Correction: My first free oil change was at 20K miles....not 15k miles.
What I was alluding to was, that between your oil change at 20K and 45K, did they know you changed it?
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      05-10-2007, 02:17 PM   #41
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Quote:
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What I was alluding to was, that between your oil change at 20K and 45K, did they know you changed it?
Yes, they do know I changed my own oil at every 5k miles, but I did ask for the oil change....and they said "NO!".....so the car was inspected only...and it took them like 3 hours to do so.....my wife wasn't too happy sitting there waiting for them to tell her that the car was running fine. :mad:

I got a Flyer from BMW about their "Free Scheduled Maintenance" plan.....according to the onboard computer.

And it clearly stated..........E9X's exclusively.

15k miles oil change
30k miles Inspection I(no oil change included)
45k miles oil change
60k miles Inspetion II(no oil change included)

*** During the 4/50,000miles --- you get two free oil change.
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      05-10-2007, 02:34 PM   #42
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Quote:
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I got a Flyer from BMW about their "Free Scheduled Maintenance" plan.....according to the onboard computer.

And it clearly stated..........E9X's exclusively.

15k miles oil change
30k miles Inspection I(no oil change included)
45k miles oil change
60k miles Inspetion II(no oil change included)

*** During the 4/50,000miles --- you get two free oil change.
Wow, I think this may start a bigger debate than when to change the oil!
Just like you, I didn't buy this car for the free maintenance and fortunately I can afford the $54.10 to change the oil myself as often as I see fit! :rocks:
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      05-15-2007, 04:34 PM   #43
Park828
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....but... in the maint manual its states that you need to change the oil at least once a year so if you dont drive much i guess you can get 4 oil changes outta them.
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      05-15-2007, 08:56 PM   #44
E90330iS
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