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      11-23-2011, 03:42 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n54door View Post
Android > iPhone

While I understand AR's plight, welcome to free enterprise.

If you have a patent on the design, sue. If not, enjoy the results of the free market. Innovate and continue to adjust your p&l turn a profit, or go home.

Quality has a cost, no doubt - but who is anyone to say quality is geographical with certainty?

And my final thought, if people didn't get their ideas from others and use it to gain opportunity and/or success we would still be cavemen!
X2 nicely said!
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      11-23-2011, 03:47 PM   #68
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This thread went to cell phones now.
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      11-23-2011, 03:52 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigragu99 View Post
This thread went to cell phones now.
lol! just making a point. Andriod was a product directly resulted from Apple's innovation, and almost an exact copy.

When you sign up to make a product, you're also signing up to be challenged or directly copied by the competition. Think about car's, now every car has LED's. It's truly a compliment to Audi when you reduce it all. Yes, profit infringement sucks, losing market share sucks, people cheating their way to success sucks, but that should fuel a company/person to out do themselves time and time again. No one said business is easy or fair.

A good business will either protect themselves legally (patents, etc), or position their product in such a way it could never be copied.
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      11-23-2011, 03:53 PM   #70
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The thread was jacked quite a bit ago lol.

I'll get some pics of the inner surfaces as soon as I get a minute. Been super busy today. I'll try to head down before dinner tomorrow and get a couple pics for you guys
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      11-23-2011, 03:54 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n54door View Post
lol! just making a point. Andriod was a product directly resulted from Apples innovation, and almost an exact copy.

When you sign up to make a product, you're also signing up to be challenged or directly copied by the competition.

A good business will either protect themselves legally (patents, etc), or position their product in such a way it could never be copied.
fwiw: That is a really bad comparison considering the "who was 1st argument w/ Android vs Apple
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      11-23-2011, 03:55 PM   #72
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so are these made in china? just curious.
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      11-23-2011, 04:08 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions View Post
Both AR and VRSF are in competition with me as a vendor and for that I will remain neutral.

For the individuals pressing AR DP and price point and defensiveness there a few things you should know. As far as their price point, if AR was willing to send their design overseas and potentially take advantage of cheap labor rates and potentially lower quality they could naturally sell their pipes for a fraction of the cost. So there is no foul in them wanting to have quality control in their products.
Fair enough, absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to maintain a standard of quality, control of the process, keeping the labor domestic etc. Does that justify the price being more than double that of what appears to be a comparable product? I mean, its a couple sections of steel and a few welds, this isn't like cutting labor costs on assembling on 100 million iphone's or something. Its all about perspective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions View Post
On the other hand from being in the car business and market for years now I see a trend of car modifiers focus on price before quality as of lately. I wouldnt say the majority do this as many people strive for quality over price but there is an exceeding amount of people concentrating on price per HP. Not a bad thing but you have to remember there is a certain point where "you get what you pay for" in most respects. This does not intend to imply that VRSF DP is low quality cause its cheaper then AR. Or that AR DP is superior.
I agree 100%. The modifying crowd seems to be expanding, its not just a "hardcore" group anymore these days. But with a larger consumer base comes a much more knowledgeable, and price conscious, community. This creates a market for a lower price bracket, and thus products at those prices. There will always be people willing to potentially sacrifice quality to save a few dollars, just like there will always be the "you get what you pay for" crowd. But if a majority of that consumer base is saying that something is overpriced regardless of what/how/who its made, then it is overpriced.

I'm willing to bet that the # of people that think ar pipes are unjustly overpriced is larger than the # of people that ever bought them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions View Post
However, we all need to sit back and look at the bigger picture and not judge.

Buy what you want to buy. Like what you want to like.

Lets all take the cheap shots out though and leave that out of public forums at a minimum.

There is a saying competition is great...yea for the consumer. So I understand where both parties stand when they have someone potentially dipping into their pockets.
I have another saying: Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.
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      11-23-2011, 04:09 PM   #74
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woo hoo.. just ordered a set.. looking forward to Map 2 on the JB4 now will be having them and my Sachs Coilovers installed by http://www.performance-alignment.com here in Cincinnati.. I'll be taking lots of pics for their website so i'll report back with the results
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      11-23-2011, 04:11 PM   #75
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I have seen AR undercut pricing of other companies/vendors with various products before. Now hes on here flipping out. seriously the pot calling the kettle black .

obviously AR cant take a dose of there own medicine .
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      11-23-2011, 04:13 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
Probably yours, but not mine... I go out of my way to NOT purchase anything made in China if I can.
I find that impossible to believe... What kind of household appliances do you have in your house, from your toaster to your coffee maker to your microwave the majority are made in China. Cell phones and electronics all made in china or taiwan. Most japanese headquartered companies still have production in china. Not sure what you have against overseas manufacturers but your clueless if you think you own nothing from overseas. Where do you think your cell phone was made....and your fancy flat screen TV?
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      11-23-2011, 04:18 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucktown View Post
Fair enough, absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to maintain a standard of quality, control of the process, keeping the labor domestic etc. Does that justify the price being more than double that of what appears to be a comparable product? I mean, its a couple sections of steel and a few welds, this isn't like cutting labor costs on assembling on 100 million iphone's or something. Its all about perspective.



I agree 100%. The modifying crowd seems to be expanding, its not just a "hardcore" group anymore these days. But with a larger consumer base comes a much more knowledgeable, and price conscious, community. This creates a market for a lower price bracket, and thus products at those prices. There will always be people willing to potentially sacrifice quality to save a few dollars, just like there will always be the "you get what you pay for" crowd. But if a majority of that consumer base is saying that something is overpriced regardless of what/how/who its made, then it is overpriced.

I'm willing to bet that the # of people that think ar pipes are unjustly overpriced is larger than the # of people that ever bought them.



I have another saying: Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.
Well. Thats why they have more then one option for you folks looking for DP. You always got options. I dont worry about other peoples business' or marketing tactics unless it somehow effected me.

I just want to reiterate for the record I'm not defending anyone here.

As I said. Business is business.
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      11-23-2011, 04:18 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335coupe2007 View Post
I couldnt say this any better. excellent point.
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      11-23-2011, 04:45 PM   #79
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You know Andrew, I just ordered a set of your DP's, for a couple of reasons. 1 the fitament, I have friends who have them and have said nothing but good things, 2 the reputation, they pretty much sell themselves. However I am starting to regret that I have purchased them due to the fact, that this is the 2nd or 3rd time I have seen you on here arguing back and forth with someone over DP's. To be honest, it not very professional and is starting to look bad for you, your DP's and your company.

Have a nice day!!!!
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      11-23-2011, 04:47 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FastBimmerN54 View Post
I find that impossible to believe... What kind of household appliances do you have in your house, from your toaster to your coffee maker to your microwave the majority are made in China. Cell phones and electronics all made in china or taiwan. Most japanese headquartered companies still have production in china. Not sure what you have against overseas manufacturers but your clueless if you think you own nothing from overseas. Where do you think your cell phone was made....and your fancy flat screen TV?
Don't drink coffee - no coffee maker
Cell phone - Nokia - designed and made in Finland
Fridge, washer, drier - Whirlpool - Made in USA (at least this is what the label on the back says)
Laptop - Made in Malaysia
PC - custom assembled - most components made in Malaysia or Taiwan

LCD TV - no way around that one: it is made in China.

Like I said, I do my best to not purchase anything made in China. Unfortunately sometimes it is unavoidable.
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      11-23-2011, 04:55 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n54door View Post
lol! just making a point. Andriod was a product directly resulted from Apple's innovation, and almost an exact copy.

When you sign up to make a product, you're also signing up to be challenged or directly copied by the competition. Think about car's, now every car has LED's. It's truly a compliment to Audi when you reduce it all. Yes, profit infringement sucks, losing market share sucks, people cheating their way to success sucks, but that should fuel a company/person to out do themselves time and time again. No one said business is easy or fair.

A good business will either protect themselves legally (patents, etc), or position their product in such a way it could never be copied.
Perfect example you used !! Do androids even compare to iPhones ,the answer is no there crap and I had them all .I think these d.p s are going to end up in the same example.I guess time will tell !

I repeat a.r is in a league of their own .Like I said ,the only company to compare or even come close is m.s.
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      11-23-2011, 04:58 PM   #82
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on the 'made in china' thing.. some light reading for those that have a problem with it.. http://autonews.gasgoo.com/china-new...s-091023.shtml

i think if BMW can trust them to manufacture their cars, i can trust a set of pipes from there.. i'm sure the market for mods is growing there as well and the china buyers of BMW cars will expect quality built mods..

americans always want everything for less.. so badly that they're already getting in line at best buy and will be spending their thanksgiving there (sad) .. thats why we are where we are in this world today.. if everything was made in america, it would all cost 2-3x as much and we wouldn't have all the 'toys' we have today..

as for AR's initial comment, yea, pretty stupid move

just my 2 cents
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Last edited by Kuch335; 11-23-2011 at 05:16 PM.
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      11-23-2011, 05:09 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigragu99 View Post
Perfect example you used !! Do androids even compare to iPhones ,the answer is no there crap and I had them all .I think these d.p s are going to end up in the same example.I guess time will tell !

I repeat a.r is in a league of their own .Like I said ,the only company to compare or even come close is m.s.
And we should value your opinion on all things made in China or anything else because?
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      11-23-2011, 05:10 PM   #84
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And we should value your opinion on all things made in China or anything else because?
exactly

Can't even use proper word usage in the English language but he knows everything about "made in china"
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      11-23-2011, 05:11 PM   #85
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and obviously NOT the same design specs.. welds/bends clearly in different locations



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      11-23-2011, 05:15 PM   #86
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lol @ a mod changing my avatar
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      11-23-2011, 05:46 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
Don't drink coffee - no coffee maker
Cell phone - Nokia - designed and made in Finland
Fridge, washer, drier - Whirlpool - Made in USA (at least this is what the label on the back says)
Laptop - Made in Malaysia
PC - custom assembled - most components made in Malaysia or Taiwan

LCD TV - no way around that one: it is made in China.

Like I said, I do my best to not purchase anything made in China. Unfortunately sometimes it is unavoidable.
I bet you sleep really good at night now....
As I said I'd be hard pressed to believe you dont own other elctronics made in china. Speakers? Laptops? Printers? Scanners? Desk top lamps? Fan fixtures?

Nothing wrong with good chinese made products, the problem is the infestation of the poor quality control in a majority.

And btw nokia? seriously? You must be that 1% without a droid or iphone in america. LOL.

It still amuses me the logic people use in their purchasing decisions.
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      11-23-2011, 06:11 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
Don't drink coffee - no coffee maker
Cell phone - Nokia - designed and made in Finland
Fridge, washer, drier - Whirlpool - Made in USA (at least this is what the label on the back says)
Laptop - Made in Malaysia
PC - custom assembled - most components made in Malaysia or Taiwan

LCD TV - no way around that one: it is made in China.

Like I said, I do my best to not purchase anything made in China. Unfortunately sometimes it is unavoidable.
I agree. Kids don't need toys with lead based paint to eat on. Tennis Shoes made by sweat shop kids... and the fact that my entire house has to be stripped out and rebuilt from the inside out is why I avoid China. Oh, did I mention that my MS panel filter literally melted inside of my stock air box (the rubber around the edges on the side near the engine)? I now have Vishnu DCI (filters might still be Chinese, but hopefully they don't melt) and my stock air box sits on the floor with melted and dried rubber pooled up in the bottom of it. That is why I bought AR DP's.

Zeph
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