E90Post
 


jb4store
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis > Should I upgrade suspension with performance modsor not?



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-02-2011, 03:02 PM   #1
finn335
Enlisted Member
1

 
Drives: '07 E92 335i
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Finland


Posts: 41
iTrader: (0)

Should I upgrade suspension with performance modsor not?

Hi,

tried to search about the subject but couldn't find anything, but sorry if this has been discussed earlier. I'm going to do a tune, dp:s and intake so should I upgrade the suspension? Something I found was that maybe I should change the backstruts to M3 struts? I have the m-sport suspension (I'm not sure if this is the sports suspension in NA?). I really wouldn't want to lower the ride/make it uncomfortable, since the roads are in very poor shape here + we have 2-3 feet of snow for 5 months of the year. I'm not gonna track the car, just basic street driving with maybe some spirited driving sometimes, but mainly I don't care if it doesn't become a race car since I think it handles pretty well now already. Just wondering if the suspension can handle the extra horses? Thanks for all the answers and every comment is welcome!
Appreciate 0
      12-02-2011, 10:51 PM   #2
cvc 22349a
Colonel
United_States
27

 
cvc 22349a's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: SF Bay


Posts: 2,255
iTrader: (8)

Depends more on if you're staying with run flat tires or not.
When you add torque and grip, the suspension bushings become inadequate.
__________________
2007 E90 335i, TiAg, 6AT, ZPP, ZSP, ZCW, 6FL, HD
Quaife lsd, ETS fmic, GIAC s/w, Dinan intake/exhaust/oc, KW/M3 susp, Apex Arc 8, Mich PSS
Appreciate 0
      12-03-2011, 05:46 AM   #3
finn335
Enlisted Member
1

 
Drives: '07 E92 335i
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Finland


Posts: 41
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cvc 22349a View Post
Depends more on if you're staying with run flat tires or not.
When you add torque and grip, the suspension bushings become inadequate.
Okay, thank you. That answers a lot. No runflats, just good ol' regular tires for me, please. At what power level you think that an LSD becomes a necessity or atleast something to seriously think about?
Appreciate 0
      12-03-2011, 06:20 AM   #4
cdgatti
Lieutenant Colonel
18

 
cdgatti's Avatar
 
Drives: e90 328i
Join Date: May 2011
Location: KY


Posts: 1,506
iTrader: (4)

Sounds like you should keep your suspension stock. It is already very good.
Appreciate 0
      12-03-2011, 10:48 AM   #5
turugara
Major
20

 
turugara's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i Coupe, 6 Speed
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NYC


Posts: 1,306
iTrader: (5)

Garage List
2011 BMW 335i  [4.72]
LSD isn't really necessary unless your tracking your car or trying for low times on a drag strip. DDing, no matter how spirited, doesn't really justify getting an LSD imo.
Appreciate 0
      12-03-2011, 12:12 PM   #6
cvc 22349a
Colonel
United_States
27

 
cvc 22349a's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: SF Bay


Posts: 2,255
iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by finn335 View Post
Okay, thank you. That answers a lot. No runflats, just good ol' regular tires for me, please. At what power level you think that an LSD becomes a necessity or atleast something to seriously think about?
Depends who you ask I guess. I think a LSD should be standard equipment on the 335i. It was my first and most important mechanical modification. As previously stated, when you add torque and grip to the 335i, modifying the 335i in attempt to tighten the chassis becomes a slippery slope and a money flush. Your original question was about your car's suspension; it was a vague question. this sub forum. People have been modifying their suspensions for over 4 years now.
__________________
2007 E90 335i, TiAg, 6AT, ZPP, ZSP, ZCW, 6FL, HD
Quaife lsd, ETS fmic, GIAC s/w, Dinan intake/exhaust/oc, KW/M3 susp, Apex Arc 8, Mich PSS
Appreciate 0
      12-03-2011, 12:14 PM   #7
CALWATERBOY
Captain
14

 
CALWATERBOY's Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 E93 N54
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Francisco


Posts: 852
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by turugara View Post
LSD isn't really necessary unless your tracking your car or trying for low times on a drag strip. DDing, no matter how spirited, doesn't really justify getting an LSD imo.
Not so! W/LSD, very noticeable improvement in everyday driving's to be had - can be felt immediately after install, motoring down a driveway. Apply power - good things happen not possible before.

BMW's 'sport' suspension, a macabre joke in Munich I'm sure, is barely adequate. Even with stock power, suspension improvements make a major diff in quality of life.
Appreciate 0
      12-03-2011, 12:21 PM   #8
CALWATERBOY
Captain
14

 
CALWATERBOY's Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 E93 N54
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Francisco


Posts: 852
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by finn335 View Post
Hi,

tried to search about the subject but couldn't find anything, but sorry if this has been discussed earlier. I'm going to do a tune, dp:s and intake so should I upgrade the suspension? Something I found was that maybe I should change the backstruts to M3 struts? I have the m-sport suspension (I'm not sure if this is the sports suspension in NA?). I really wouldn't want to lower the ride/make it uncomfortable, since the roads are in very poor shape here + we have 2-3 feet of snow for 5 months of the year. I'm not gonna track the car, just basic street driving with maybe some spirited driving sometimes, but mainly I don't care if it doesn't become a race car since I think it handles pretty well now already. Just wondering if the suspension can handle the extra horses? Thanks for all the answers and every comment is welcome!
(1) Yes, yes, and YES. You'll be shocked at the improvement, and how limited BMW's sport suspension really is. You'll be annoyed at the cost - figure $6-7k USD for M3 parts, Quaife or Wavetrac LSD; matched shocks & springs. Plus labor.... BUT....whatta diff!

(2) Dude! Sport suspension has 5" clearance at the doors; not optimal for snow. 4wd SUV, please.

Last edited by CALWATERBOY; 12-03-2011 at 12:38 PM.
Appreciate 0
      12-03-2011, 12:32 PM   #9
CALWATERBOY
Captain
14

 
CALWATERBOY's Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 E93 N54
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Francisco


Posts: 852
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by finn335 View Post
Hi,

tried to search about the subject but couldn't find anything, but sorry if this has been discussed earlier. I'm going to do a tune, dp:s and intake so should I upgrade the suspension? Something I found was that maybe I should change the backstruts to M3 struts? I have the m-sport suspension (I'm not sure if this is the sports suspension in NA?). I really wouldn't want to lower the ride/make it uncomfortable, since the roads are in very poor shape here + we have 2-3 feet of snow for 5 months of the year. I'm not gonna track the car, just basic street driving with maybe some spirited driving sometimes, but mainly I don't care if it doesn't become a race car since I think it handles pretty well now already. Just wondering if the suspension can handle the extra horses? Thanks for all the answers and every comment is welcome!
The cheap date to cure that problem is a set o'Koni FSD shocks. Designed for stock springs, you'll be much happier with what you have. But you will not have the capability you can have w/other mods. [Click here] for perspective!

You drive a 2007 - well known for pothole 'explosions' due to BMW's suspension design. Yow! FSD's solve that problem, specifically.
Appreciate 0
      12-03-2011, 02:16 PM   #10
finn335
Enlisted Member
1

 
Drives: '07 E92 335i
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Finland


Posts: 41
iTrader: (0)

Thanks a lot for all the answers! I really appreciate them Sorry if I ask some obvious questions, but I'm new to all this car-modding-business and want to get things right the first time. Really learning all the time and I do want to learn. About the snow question, I really didn't mean that I would be driving in it But there can be some heavy snow and since I DD the car, it should cope with atleast some amount of snow (and I believe it does when it's in stock height, been browsing the finnish forums). I'm happy being stock, but the KONI FSDs seem like a good compromise. Thank you for your suggestion! Also thanks for everyone commenting, they all really do help
Appreciate 0
      12-03-2011, 03:08 PM   #11
CALWATERBOY
Captain
14

 
CALWATERBOY's Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 E93 N54
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Francisco


Posts: 852
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by finn335 View Post
Thanks a lot for all the answers! I really appreciate them Sorry if I ask some obvious questions, but I'm new to all this car-modding-business and want to get things right the first time. Really learning all the time and I do want to learn. About the snow question, I really didn't mean that I would be driving in it But there can be some heavy snow and since I DD the car, it should cope with atleast some amount of snow (and I believe it does when it's in stock height, been browsing the finnish forums). I'm happy being stock, but the KONI FSDs seem like a good compromise. Thank you for your suggestion! Also thanks for everyone commenting, they all really do help
In wet conditions, or particularly where there's snow, a limited slip differential will save your bacon - much better than BMW's e-diff. That & FSD's will flat put a smile on your mug!

Recommend: Do the suspension/LSD before power upgrades -- more power highlights deficiencies.

You'll want more. Are you aware of rear subframe bushing flex?
Appreciate 0
      12-03-2011, 03:30 PM   #12
GaryS
Colonel
24

 
Drives: 2009 135i 6MT
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Maryland


Posts: 2,089
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 135i  [3.25]
Quote:
Originally Posted by turugara View Post
LSD isn't really necessary unless your tracking your car or trying for low times on a drag strip. DDing, no matter how spirited, doesn't really justify getting an LSD imo.
+1 I have a Wavetrac, but for track. IMO it's way too expensive to justify for the small difference it makes for street.

But I definitely recommend FSDs.
Appreciate 0
      12-03-2011, 06:32 PM   #13
finn335
Enlisted Member
1

 
Drives: '07 E92 335i
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Finland


Posts: 41
iTrader: (0)

woops, doublepost

Last edited by finn335; 12-04-2011 at 05:40 AM.
Appreciate 0
      12-03-2011, 06:33 PM   #14
finn335
Enlisted Member
1

 
Drives: '07 E92 335i
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Finland


Posts: 41
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post

Recommend: Do the suspension/LSD before power upgrades -- more power highlights deficiencies.

You'll want more. Are you aware of rear subframe bushing flex?
I've heard about it, but not much. That is what I was referring to in my OP with the M3 stuff, but really didn't know what I was saying I think it has something to do with the stock bushings being so soft and causing the rear wheels to not be able to put down all the power (wheel hop?)? I'm sure I'm wrong, so please correct I looked to polyurethane bushings, but read about them being of poor quality? Could you point me to a direction with these and also thanks for the recommendation about the upgrade being done before the performance updates!
Appreciate 0
      12-04-2011, 10:45 AM   #15
CALWATERBOY
Captain
14

 
CALWATERBOY's Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 E93 N54
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Francisco


Posts: 852
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
....rear subframe bushing flex?
Quote:
Originally Posted by finn335 View Post
I think it has something to do with the stock bushings being so soft and causing the rear wheels to not be able to put down all the power (wheel hop?)?
With stock bushings the rear's somewhat disconnected and vague. Problem's worse with more power and/or you'll be very aware of it after LSD install - cure that w/M3 bushings.

These bushings are not a trivial install - typical labor $500+, twice parts cost [USA]. As a DIY, it's an inexpensive cure for irritating behavior. Stability and precision's the name of the game.
Appreciate 0
      12-04-2011, 11:29 AM   #16
finn335
Enlisted Member
1

 
Drives: '07 E92 335i
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Finland


Posts: 41
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
With stock bushings the rear's somewhat disconnected and vague. Problem's worse with more power and/or you'll be very aware of it after LSD install - cure that w/M3 bushings.
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-14...e82-non-m.aspx

do you mean these? I want to really thank you for all the advice you've given, it's been very helpful
Appreciate 0
      12-04-2011, 11:49 AM   #17
tunachris
First Lieutenant
United_States
3

 
tunachris's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 E92
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Simi Valley, CA


Posts: 318
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2010 E92  [0.00]
Good coil-overs are a start. They will improve handling, and flatten the car in turns. Get rid of the RFT's and do shocks/springs to be able to use the power.

A good LSD will help to get the power to the ground both coming off the line, and powering out of the turns. I still think it is a crime that BMW doesn't offer this at least as on option for us lowly NON-M people. For most of us it is going to be the most expensive mod we do, but it is a must to use all the power that the car can make.

I haven't done M3 bits or sway bars myself, but this seem to be the next step. Bushings and control arms as well as anti-roll bars from the M cars should be the next step. I am not sure if I want or need this, but time will tell.
__________________
JB4, BMW Perf. Exhaust, DCI, Strut Brace, KW Series 1, Quaife LSD, Black Kidneys.
Appreciate 0
      12-04-2011, 03:52 PM   #18
CALWATERBOY
Captain
14

 
CALWATERBOY's Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 E93 N54
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Francisco


Posts: 852
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by finn335 View Post
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-14...e82-non-m.aspx

do you mean these? I want to really thank you for all the advice you've given, it's been very helpful
No, those will give you a buckboard ride.

Try these M3 parts. HP Autowerks is a gold standard in the USA, as is Ground Control.
Appreciate 0
      12-04-2011, 05:04 PM   #19
finn335
Enlisted Member
1

 
Drives: '07 E92 335i
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Finland


Posts: 41
iTrader: (0)

Can't thank you guys enough for all the info and help! Thanks CALWATERBOY for the links, I think I'm gonna order those subframe bushings asap! Planning to do some driving on lake ice this winter, should be fun with these upgrades! Can't even imagine how fun it would be with the whole shabang though... Maybe some day
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:14 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST