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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > Manual VS Auto



View Poll Results: Manual or Automatic?
Manual Transmission 89 78.76%
Automatic Transmission 24 21.24%
Voters: 113. You may not vote on this poll

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      12-07-2011, 08:54 PM   #23
whoosh
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I tought my kid to drive stick in my E30, and he thanks me all the time for insuring he learn this skill. Who cares about so many tenths shaved around the' ring... Nothing beats the feeling of a perfectly executed heel-toe downshift.

long live the stick!
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      12-07-2011, 08:58 PM   #24
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      12-07-2011, 09:20 PM   #25
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In 25 years of driving and insuring 40+ cars with a number of insurance companies, I have NEVER been asked whether the car was an automatic or a manual, and I doubt any of them had that info encoded into the VIN.

As manuals get rarer, I think that for any car with a sporting bent they actually increase the resale value. BUT, you have to target your market when selling. And be willing to wait longer for the sale.

I also think that manuals encourage more engagement with the process of driving, and fewer distrations.

/grumpy middle aged guy moden

What is with all the parents buying their kids $20K+ cars around here?? I grew up in a VERY affluent town, and nobody's parents bought them anything like a few year old BMW. At best you got a hand-me-down '80 Volvo wagon with 150K on it (and Mom got a new one), or in my case a hand-me-down 5yo Subaru GL. And a 5yo Subaru was not a performance machine in 1987... Kids bought themselves beaters. My best friend drove a Volare Station Wagon...

And yes, I am jealous, I freely admit it. My folks could have EASILY bought me a couple year old BMW when I got my license, but Hell would have frozen over first! I was damned lucky to even get that Subaru.
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      12-07-2011, 10:19 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by krhodes1 View Post
I also think that manuals encourage more engagement with the process of driving, and fewer distrations.
people who tend to be engaged in driving will be engaged. i've got friends who will manage to downshift, talk, and text all while slowing to a stop driving stick. driving standard becomes 2nd hand, and until it does, you'll be staring at your tachometer and not in front of you. practice first on empty streets, don't drive to school manual the 3rd day you get your car. take your time.


if your parents want a reason to get you a 6spd, tell them it'll make you more happy. if that's not a good enough reason, maybe you haven't been as respectful to them as you should've been.
i was born in 94 and my parents were happy to offer to get me my nice car. you can bet i never complained i didn't get a 6spd.
your relationship with your parents should be as positive as possible. Listen to what they always have to say, get good grades, and don't lie to them. they say be home by 10, be home by 9:50. if they expect A's, get A+s. If they want you to take out the trash, do it and then start on the dishes.
I'd rather do dishes and drive a bmw than watch tv and drive a hyundai accent
not trying to personally give you life advice here, just ranting about my experiences. your parents aren't the enemy
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      12-07-2011, 11:12 PM   #27
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1. A young driver in a BMW will have more effect on your insurance bill than your choice of tranny ever will.
2. Focus. You will become a more focused driver, more "in tune" with your car and surroundings driving a stick. You learn to evaluate road/car conditons better and make effective decisions "on the fly". In short - You will become a better driver. This should not be marginalized in your decision-making process. I pushed my son to choose a stick for his first car (VW). He opted for a stick when he bought his next car (a Mini...Fun little car!).
Driving should be enjoyable, not work. I dont think I would get the same experience if my 335 was an auto.
3. I spents MONTHS looking for a M-SPORT with a 6spd. Resale wont suffer but you will lose the soccer moms car-buyers. As the old-time car salesman say " There's a seat for every ass and an ass for every seat."
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      12-08-2011, 12:04 AM   #28
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Had an automatic E90 328i and took a hit selling it in order to buy the same thing but with a third pedal. Don't make the same mistake I did and get which ever one you like most from the start.

I have no regrets with my decision.
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      12-08-2011, 01:10 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krhodes1 View Post
In 25 years of driving and insuring 40+ cars with a number of insurance companies, I have NEVER been asked whether the car was an automatic or a manual, and I doubt any of them had that info encoded into the VIN.

As manuals get rarer, I think that for any car with a sporting bent they actually increase the resale value. BUT, you have to target your market when selling. And be willing to wait longer for the sale.

I also think that manuals encourage more engagement with the process of driving, and fewer distrations.

/grumpy middle aged guy moden

What is with all the parents buying their kids $20K+ cars around here?? I grew up in a VERY affluent town, and nobody's parents bought them anything like a few year old BMW. At best you got a hand-me-down '80 Volvo wagon with 150K on it (and Mom got a new one), or in my case a hand-me-down 5yo Subaru GL. And a 5yo Subaru was not a performance machine in 1987... Kids bought themselves beaters. My best friend drove a Volare Station Wagon...

And yes, I am jealous, I freely admit it. My folks could have EASILY bought me a couple year old BMW when I got my license, but Hell would have frozen over first! I was damned lucky to even get that Subaru.
times change....in 1997-98 my 1995 base Nissan Maxima (with 75k miles) was the best car in high school and its a big school at almost 2000 students.
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      12-08-2011, 02:20 AM   #30
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1. I have never seen an insurance company asking about the transmission in a vehicle.

2. You will be more focused since it is much more difficult to drink/text/etc with a manual transmission. Also, a manual provides more control.

3. It might be true for some cheaper cars but there definitely a demand for manual transmissions in BMWs.
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      12-08-2011, 05:36 AM   #31
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1.) The insurance is more expensive.
No info on this, but I´m guessing NOT. Insurance is more focused on your age and the power and value of your car and where you live.

2.) It's a distraction.
Its neither a distraction or not one.. Once youve learned MT, it becomes automatic to change gears. But driving a MT gives you better fuel economy and will also benefit your skills as a driver. Your forced to learn to prioritize driving the car instead of fiddling with the cellphone or stereo.

3.) There is a smaller market for them therefore its harder to sell.
Small does not mean worse. Intrested MT buyers will be hunting for the MT, so a special vehicle will hold its value better.

But this depends on the car...
A sporty drivers car like the 3-series will sell regardless of AT/MT.
A luxury car (EG: Lexus LS/Mercedes E) will sell easier with AT
A true sportscar (EG: Porsche Cayman) will only sell with MT or Sequential

There is a diffrence between riding in a car and driving in a car. Its my firm belief after 25 years as a driver that MT drivers are more involved and better drivers then disconnected AT drivers like myself.(Ok ok, so this is my first AT car in 25 years! I started out in a 48hp 1974 VW bug)
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      12-08-2011, 08:15 AM   #32
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I would say #1 and #2 aren't true. #3 might be true - resale might be an issue since more people want automatic.

Regarding manual being a distraction...I'm in my 40s. I got my license when I was 15. The year I got my license, I turned 15 in late August, took Driver's Ed starting in Sept. and had my license mid October. My father (and his brothers) were/are all a bunch of car nuts. So I was driving as soon as I could reach the pedals in the car. My father would take me to the local dump (which was huge) and let me drive. When I was around 13, we moved to a neighborhood that was about a 2 mile oval off a main road. It was there and then that I learned to drive manual. My brother had a manual volkswagen rabbit, but was away at school. So my father (who had bought him the car) thought it would be good for me to learn to drive manual. At first I just drove in our long driveway - learned about the clutch, etc. But soon my father had me driving around our neighborhood (I know, I know - things were different then - we also had lawn darts as a game, and when we got in trouble our parents sided against us kids and made us take responsibility - the horror). I practiced parallel parking using rubber trash barrels - both on hills and on flats. I was allowed to drive anytime my father was home (I don't think my mother knew I took the car out of our yard though).

When it came time to take my driver's test, I wanted to use the manual car. Even though my father thought I would do fine, my father's only words of warning were, "if you roll back at all when parallel parking, they will not pass you". I opted to take the automatic . I passed and got my license, and then 2 months later my father helped me buy my first car - a manual vw rabbit.

I have never owned anything other than manual (btw I'm a woman). So I don't remember ever thinking that manual was/is a distraction - it all quickly became second nature.
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      12-08-2011, 08:58 AM   #33
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1.) The insurance is more expensive.

It doesn't have to do anything with your transmission. It really depends on your age and your driving record. I had 4 RDs when I was 16-20. When my parents were paying my insurance back then, it would be $400-$600/month depending on what car I drove. My record has been squeaky clean since my last RD 5 years ago (until recently). The 335i and M3 are both <$85/month each for insurance, and other car I drive is <$105/month. If you don't have an absurd driving record, you should be alright with your insurance quote, especially if you're splitting it with your parents. Absolutely make sure you shop around because the quotes can have an incredibly wide range. Some companies were quoting me $200-$300 on the 335i and M3 when Geico quoted me $81 and $84.

2.) It's a distraction.

Since they're stating it's a distraction, just tell them you'd be more focused on the driving aspect since you'll be shifting. You can also tell them you won't be able to eat food, text, or do anything else while driving so it'll be safer. (Although that's a lie)

3.) There is a smaller market for them therefore its harder to sell.

There's undoubtedly a smaller market for them when you're trying to sell it, but within that small market, there are (die-hard) enthusiasts who've been searching a good amount of time for a 6MT. If you look in the Marketplace/cars section of the forums, you'll see a lot of "WTB: 6MT" threads. If you're trying to get rid of it quick, I'm sure the 6MT wouldn't help you. If you and/or your parents have all the time in the world, then the 6MT wouldn't be that much harder to sell.

Last edited by Royal Flush; 12-08-2011 at 09:25 AM.
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      12-08-2011, 09:07 AM   #34
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I am a parent myself, and I can tell you I won't let my kids drive without learning MT first. Why? Coming from learning AT first myself, I can tell you honestly you really don't know how to drive and how the car behaves unless you know MT. By knowing MT, I don't just mean knowing how to up-shift (1->2->3->4->5->6), but rev-match downshift (from any gear to any gear) and heel-toe downshift (from any gear to any gear).

A rebuttal to your parents to each of their points:
1.) The insurance is more expensive.
There is no correlation between the "initial" cost of insurance between MT vs AT. In fact, since you will be a better driver in MT, the likelihood of an accident will be lower, which leads to lower insurance costs in subsequent years.

2.) It's a distraction.
The only distractions are eating, texting, talking on the phone, and drinking coffees in your car. Driving a MT will discourage you from doing those activities as you will be more involved in your driving.

3.) There is a smaller market for them therefore its harder to sell.
All the better, that means you will be keeping your car longer, perhaps until it runs to the ground. Saving your parents money in the long run.


[quote=The Stig's U.S. Cousin;10936424]I'm planning on getting a 2007 BMW 328i coupe. I have heard that if i don't get it in manual i will be losing a lot of power and that's not what i want. I would love to get the manual, but my parents don't agree. My parents have only come up with three reasons
1.) The insurance is more expensive.
2.) It's a distraction.
3.) There is a smaller market for them therefore its harder to sell.
If you hav only distractions are eating, texting, talking on the phone, and drinking coffees in your car. Driving a MT will discourage you from doing those activities as you will be more involved in your driving.

3.) There is a smaller ma
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      12-08-2011, 09:10 AM   #35
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go get the manual transmission
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      12-08-2011, 10:07 AM   #36
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[quote=achien;10940328]I am a parent myself, and I can tell you I won't let my kids drive without learning MT first. Why? Coming from learning AT first myself, I can tell you honestly you really don't know how to drive and how the car behaves unless you know MT. By knowing MT, I don't just mean knowing how to up-shift (1->2->3->4->5->6), but rev-match downshift (from any gear to any gear) and heel-toe downshift (from any gear to any gear).

A rebuttal to your parents to each of their points:
1.) The insurance is more expensive.
There is no correlation between the "initial" cost of insurance between MT vs AT. In fact, since you will be a better driver in MT, the likelihood of an accident will be lower, which leads to lower insurance costs in subsequent years.

2.) It's a distraction.
The only distractions are eating, texting, talking on the phone, and drinking coffees in your car. Driving a MT will discourage you from doing those activities as you will be more involved in your driving.

3.) There is a smaller market for them therefore its harder to sell.
All the better, that means you will be keeping your car longer, perhaps until it runs to the ground. Saving your parents money in the long run.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Stig's U.S. Cousin View Post
I'm planning on getting a 2007 BMW 328i coupe. I have heard that if i don't get it in manual i will be losing a lot of power and that's not what i want. I would love to get the manual, but my parents don't agree. My parents have only come up with three reasons
1.) The insurance is more expensive.
2.) It's a distraction.
3.) There is a smaller market for them therefore its harder to sell.
If you hav only distractions are eating, texting, talking on the phone, and drinking coffees in your car. Driving a MT will discourage you from doing those activities as you will be more involved in your driving.

3.) There is a smaller ma
I agree that learning how to (properly) drive an MT is a valuable skill. I don't necessariily agree that it discourages you from being distracted because it will eventually become second nature and almost instinctive.


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      12-08-2011, 10:13 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Stig's U.S. Cousin View Post
I'm planning on getting a 2007 BMW 328i coupe. I have heard that if i don't get it in manual i will be losing a lot of power and that's not what i want. I would love to get the manual, but my parents don't agree. My parents have only come up with three reasons
1.) The insurance is more expensive.
2.) It's a distraction.
3.) There is a smaller market for them therefore its harder to sell.
If you have any thoughts i would love to hear them, so i can hopefully put together a decent argument, and get my manual. Also if you are a parent yourself, would you rather have your kid driving a manual or auto?
I came from a manual STI and got an auto. I miss the manual

Here is my take:
1. Is it really? By how much? My guess is that its insignificant.
2. Its not, once you get used to it. You are actually more aware of the surroundings as you need to know if you have to upshift or downshift.
3. Supply is low, you would get a better deal out of a manual than a common automatic.
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      12-08-2011, 12:20 PM   #38
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My kids are approaching driving age. I intend to insist that they start on a MT car.
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      12-10-2011, 01:37 AM   #39
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I have a 328i with 6MT, ZSP and non-RFT's. I recently had a loaner with AT, no ZSP and RFT's. I hated it.

The 335 is fine with either tranny but I like the 328i with 6MT much better.

Get what YOU want. Your parents should be focusing on whether or not you are a responsible person NOT what tranny you should get.
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      12-10-2011, 02:17 AM   #40
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Had an automatic E90 328i and took a hit selling it in order to buy the same thing but with a third pedal. Don't make the same mistake I did and get which ever one you like most from the start.

I have no regrets with my decision.
same here. huge mistake getting my first 335 w/o Sports package in a 6AT. Swapping was worth every penny (1 million of them)
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      12-10-2011, 08:22 AM   #41
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Quote:
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As manuals get rarer, I think that for any car with a sporting bent they actually increase the resale value.
I've heard that the "classic" air-cooled Porsche 911s (964 and 993) with Tiptronics take a huge price hit. The dealers who specialize in the air-cooled cars won't bother with them because they take forever to sell.

When I'm shopping for a car, anything that isn't available with a manual gets crossed off the list. I would never have purchased the E91 if it hadn't been available with a manual.
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      12-10-2011, 08:57 AM   #42
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all Porsches take a hit if Auto. Who in a right mind would buy Automatic Porsche...unless of course its a PDK
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      12-10-2011, 01:11 PM   #43
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I don't think PDK belongs in any Porsche other than the Panamera and Cayenne. But then I'm a real purist that way...
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      12-10-2011, 02:00 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Stig's U.S. Cousin View Post
I'm planning on getting a 2007 BMW 328i coupe. I have heard that if i don't get it in manual i will be losing a lot of power and that's not what i want. I would love to get the manual, but my parents don't agree. My parents have only come up with three reasons
1.) The insurance is more expensive.
2.) It's a distraction.
3.) There is a smaller market for them therefore its harder to sell.
If you have any thoughts i would love to hear them, so i can hopefully put together a decent argument, and get my manual. Also if you are a parent yourself, would you rather have your kid driving a manual or auto?
Stop complaining and get what they will give you. Be happy it's an e92. If they get you a manual just be happier.
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