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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > THE MOST RECKLESS BMW DEALERSHIP IN THE USA... and their lawyers..



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      01-07-2012, 11:29 AM   #287
driverman
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We're all enthusiasts and the vast majority of us sympathize with arguru's situation, but let's try to GUESS what's going on at the dealership and BMW given the info arguru has provided ....

Dealership:
- Consult attorney. Follow his/her advice, which is:
-- Don't talk to arguru publicly or privately.
-- Find out what happened but keep results private.
-- Stall. Wait for the flurry of activity to go away.

BMW:
- Ask engineers to investigate incident.
- Don't say anything until the investigation is complete.
- If a flaw in the design is found:
-- ask engineering team to come up with a fix
-- thoroughly test fix
-- ask engineering team to come up with probabilities for future failures
-- estimate cost of recall to correct problem (#cars effected * cost per car)
-- determine if any previous incidents could have been caused by same problem
-- ask legal team to estimate potential liability consequences
-- ask sales & marketing to estimate consequences of hit to reputation (safety issues freak people out)
-- estimate cost of doing nothing
-- conduct management meeting(s) to decide how to handle

All of these things take lots of time.

The bottom line is that arguru's best hope of resolution is BMW. If BMW is saying: "We are investigating", that seems reasonable. It could take months.

If this was an easy problem to identify and fix, the problem would have never made it into production. It's these "low probability / high consequence" possibilities that drive engineers nuts.

Last edited by driverman; 01-07-2012 at 12:09 PM.
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      01-07-2012, 12:10 PM   #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driverman View Post
We're all enthusiasts and the vast majority of us sympathize with arguru's situation, but let's try to GUESS what's going on at the dealership and BMW given the info arguru has provided ....

Dealership:
- Consult attorney. Follow his/her advice, which is:
-- Don't talk to arguru publicly or privately.
-- Find out what happened but keep results private.
-- Stall. Wait for the flurry of activity to go away.

BMW:
- Ask engineers to investigate incident.
- Don't say anything until the investigation is complete.
- If a flaw in the design is found:
-- ask engineering team to come up with a fix
-- ask engineering team to come up with probabilities for future failures

-- estimate cost of recall to correct problem (#cars effected * cost per car)
-- determine if any previous incidents could have been caused by same problem
-- ask legal team to estimate potential liability consequences
-- ask sales & marketing to estimate consequences of hit to reputation (safety issues freak people out)
-- estimate cost of doing nothing
-- conduct management meeting(s) to decide how to handle

All of these things take lots of time.

The bottom line is that arguru's best hope of resolution is BMW. If BMW is saying: "We are investigating", that seems reasonable. It could take months.

If this was an easy problem to identify and fix, the problem would have never made it into production. It's these "low probability / high consequence" possibilities that drive engineers nuts.
+1

I bet the guys in Munich are taking this one very seriously and the blue bits above, even if to review past design work on AS, let alone arguru's case, is going to take some time.

Regards
D.
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      01-08-2012, 12:31 AM   #289
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Do you mind if I link this thread to the BMWCCA website? I would be curious to see how some of those gearheads analyze your accident.
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      01-08-2012, 06:23 PM   #290
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Of course man. I encourage it.
Cool, i'll look into it.
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      01-09-2012, 10:11 AM   #291
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BMWNA is starting to sound like Iran- maybe if they were transparent and honest about the matter you could feel a sense of customer support and loyalty. They're being way too shady about a life threatening issue.
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      01-09-2012, 11:55 AM   #292
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I thought Richard Jones asked a very good question about what would make the OP happy and what a resolution would look like.

Bottom line is the OP does not have a car he can drive and feel good about.

So much has gotten lost in the process.

At this point it would appear OP is going the distance and both sides have their backs to the wall.

Too bad the end result won't really be known. It is logical BMW and/or Penske can find an economical solution to make the op happy. The cost will be sign a non-disclosure.

If both parties are satisfied, its a win-win.

Car companies always have lawsuits and always have had to deal with design flaws.

Good luck OP and do wish you a happy resolution.
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      01-09-2012, 12:18 PM   #293
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Talking about Dick Jones, whatever happened to to dick? He seemed to be a shy dick, he retreated quickly after he was called out.
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      01-09-2012, 02:06 PM   #294
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never dealt with scottsdale bmw.... keep this in mind
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      01-09-2012, 11:25 PM   #295
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speaking from experience, BMW is one to ignore and cover up rather than solve. Let us review a recent situation:
The fuel pump issue began in 2007 right after the firsr N54 were sold, with the first few reports to the NHTSA. That began the 29.2 and turbo lag and we didnt do anything to your car, it is acting with specifications, ok we did do something, lets put in some reman pumps, oh shit we are on tv, extend the warranty with a BS recall for the press, oh shit we are being sued, proposed settlement years.

The guys in munich may be taking it seriously but it might not be the way you think or want, more of a cover thier ass and try to smell like a rose when it is over approach than a lets solve it and do whats right thing(that comes much later).
And I have banged heads with BMWNA. It got to where they knew my name in New Jersey and Germany and they had me flagged somehow so nobody would touch my car. BMW is very good at avoidance and stonewalling and spinning.
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      01-10-2012, 12:23 AM   #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quisp View Post
speaking from experience, BMW is one to ignore and cover up rather than solve. Let us review a recent situation:
The fuel pump issue began in 2007 right after the firsr N54 were sold, with the first few reports to the NHTSA. That began the 29.2 and turbo lag and we didnt do anything to your car, it is acting with specifications, ok we did do something, lets put in some reman pumps, oh shit we are on tv, extend the warranty with a BS recall for the press, oh shit we are being sued, proposed settlement years.

The guys in munich may be taking it seriously but it might not be the way you think or want, more of a cover thier ass and try to smell like a rose when it is over approach than a lets solve it and do whats right thing(that comes much later).
And I have banged heads with BMWNA. It got to where they knew my name in New Jersey and Germany and they had me flagged somehow so nobody would touch my car. BMW is very good at avoidance and stonewalling and spinning.
this.

create a website, link it to this post, find others with the same problem who are googling their issues. find a lawyer who specializes in automotive class action. let the ball roll.
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      01-10-2012, 05:03 AM   #297
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I think it's a little unfair to compare this to the HPFP thing. In reality it takes a long time to determine there is a widespread issue with a car. There are a LOT of factors involved. They are a big company and whilst they have deep pockets, it's not just a case of money.

I think the reasonable thing is for the dealer to get you back on the road, and then properly investigate. If there are other cases, then they should be presented to BMWNA and BMW Germany and work from there.

I don't think it's reasonable to expect a complete resolution quickly.
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      01-10-2012, 01:27 PM   #298
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      01-10-2012, 02:24 PM   #299
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I think the below is an excellent idea. In fact, this should be posted on all the other sites and blogs tracking this case encouraging owners to call and ask BMWNA about this safety issue AND file reports/complaints to the NHTSA (https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/index.cfm ). The more reported and/inquiries, the more attention/pressure on NHTSA and BWMNA to respond formally (and News Media exposure).

"BMW is flat out ignoring it. If you don't believe me then call the head of their customer service dept directly at 201 263 8217 and see for yourself. Customer concerns and safety issues seem to be very low on their totem pole.

Seriously, give them a call. Then you'll be able to see exactly what I'm talking about."
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      01-11-2012, 11:01 AM   #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion4 View Post
I think the below is an excellent idea. In fact, this should be posted on all the other sites and blogs tracking this case encouraging owners to call and ask BMWNA about this safety issue AND file reports/complaints to the NHTSA (https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/index.cfm ). The more reported and/inquiries, the more attention/pressure on NHTSA and BWMNA to respond formally (and News Media exposure).

"BMW is flat out ignoring it. If you don't believe me then call the head of their customer service dept directly at 201 263 8217 and see for yourself. Customer concerns and safety issues seem to be very low on their totem pole.

Seriously, give them a call. Then you'll be able to see exactly what I'm talking about."
Can I make a claim to NHTSA about a car that isn't mine?
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      01-11-2012, 06:50 PM   #301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike3000fl View Post
this.

create a website, link it to this post, find others with the same problem who are googling their issues. find a lawyer who specializes in automotive class action. let the ball roll.
Been there, done that, took over 3 years.


I agree that this is not the same as the HPFP, but this is how the HPFP was at the beginning. One person who posted and then found out that there were others with the same issue. If it does turn out that more people have this problem you will find strength in numbers.
One person can take on a giant and win, but if he has allies, it can only help.
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      01-11-2012, 10:05 PM   #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike3000fl View Post
this.

create a website, link it to this post, find others with the same problem who are googling their issues. find a lawyer who specializes in automotive class action. let the ball roll.
This seems to be a fairly isolated incident. How many others have posted here?
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      01-11-2012, 10:44 PM   #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaker View Post
This seems to be a fairly isolated incident. How many others have posted here?
if you read the jalopnik article it says he has been contacted by others who shared the same issues.
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      01-13-2012, 04:26 PM   #304
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      01-13-2012, 05:32 PM   #305
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handle it the chinese way.
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      01-13-2012, 07:20 PM   #306
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Probably already posted...maybe you should contact these guys:

http://www.gilardi.com/hpfpsettlement/Contact%20Us.html

1) They already have BMW's ear.
2) Sounds like there are others with the same problem

Can you imagine the publicity if all Active Steering cars have this "potential" issue to NOT Steer.

ABC News, 60 Minutes would have a field day, and rightly so.

Last edited by kablammo; 01-13-2012 at 07:38 PM.
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      01-14-2012, 04:03 AM   #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kablammo View Post
Probably already posted...maybe you should contact these guys:

http://www.gilardi.com/hpfpsettlement/Contact%20Us.html

1) They already have BMW's ear.
2) Sounds like there are others with the same problem

Can you imagine the publicity if all Active Steering cars have this "potential" issue to NOT Steer.

ABC News, 60 Minutes would have a field day, and rightly so.
And back to hysteria....
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      01-14-2012, 12:31 PM   #308
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I only read to the point that active steering has no fail safe. Is it true? A cliff notes on the issue would be great. Sorry I did not read the entire thread. I was assuming the absolute worst case.
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