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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > THE MOST RECKLESS BMW DEALERSHIP IN THE USA... and their lawyers..



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      12-14-2011, 02:52 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John 070 View Post
Truth be told, if you go up against PENSKE, you will most likely lose, as they're like insurance. They'll spend their money fighting rather than help people. They own the extended warranty co. from which they offer the expensive warranty, and they even said you have to buy a car from only their dealerships under the glass etch BS. The court upheld their BS.

We all root for Davey, but sometimes Davey and everyone Davey knows just needs to steer clear of Goliath.

http://www.autonews.com/article/2011...FILE/305059999

http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/...610/222323/110
it sounds like the guy was fighting the fact that he was required to use the replacement money from a stolen car at another penske dealer. I think the lawsuit was an obvious stretch to a tying anti competitive law. This is no different than Walmart saying if you find a lower cost on an item you purchase they they will give you store credit for the difference in the price.

They are just exchanging one thing for another, meaning it is your choice, you and take the replacement warranty but you have to use the money at their location or you can forgo the money and go elsewhere.

Just other example of people not know what they bough.

Do not get me wrong I am not defending Penske, but people have to be smart buyer otherwise things like this happen.
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      12-14-2011, 02:56 PM   #46
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The "Statutory Emmisions Inspection" comes up in the check controls as " Service Due" and it is true that it does not apply to most states so they just reset it that part is true but my question is why was the car never taken in for diagnosis in the first place? CPO covers "Most" componets on the car seven then i know the car still has to be diagnosed first to find the failure so did the Service Advisor not even offer to have the car Diaged? If so thats terrible!

FYI for anyone else, if you feels there's a problem with your car get a work order written on the car and if your out of the 4/50 warranty there's always going to be a diag fee but if it is a covered componet then you just pay that $50.00 deductable but seriously not having the car written up and an actual work order made is never good because BMW not only has nothing to look at but it becomes your word against thiers.

i just ad my 2 cents because i was in a similar situation where the dealer would take me in right away not even write a ticket on it make thier "adjustment" for my window rattle then send me on my way but then when the problem came back over and over i told them this has been going on for months and i have been there 4 times there were no records of my visits and now it was my word against theres. So i paid my diag fee got it looked at, the CPO covered my window reg and it cost $50.00 but documentation is eveything!




Hope it all works out for you man, We all got your back!
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      12-14-2011, 03:38 PM   #47
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So the dealer refused to work on your car and then had a lawyer contact you asking you to take down bad publicity after they nearly killed your or several other people due to their negligent action.

This situation is close to the worst possible thing the dealer could do.


1. They severely inconvenienced you, after you were nearly killed, by refusing you service for simply posting off handed comments on the internet detailing your experience. A vehicle brand's service center's reason for existence is to help customers quickly and painlessly resolve warranty issues. This service center selfishly did not do that which hurts the BMW brand and is a black mark for the service center's service. The worst part is that they did this at the slightest inclination. You were acting in good faith and offhandedly gave them bad publicity. You weren't going to the media to embarrass them, you posted a thread asking for help and dropped their name.

2. They attempted to use a lawyer to ask you to remove truthful free speech in offhanded commentary, again while not fixing your car. Not only is this bad of them to do, but it is evidence to believe that they know that they were negligent here.

3. The have delayed and/or are continuing to delay the addressing of a serious safety issue which could result in death. Your car needs to be diagnosed ASAP, yet the dealer doesn't care about that, they only care about themselves.

4. Above all they were negligent. They committed negligence in the sense of a civil lawsuit, which makes them liable, and they committed negligent endangerment in the sense of a criminal act which is a felony in some states.


Due to the extremely poor conduct of the dealership I strongly feel that you should go to the media with this. I've also sent you some info regarding how to pursue this legally.
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      12-14-2011, 03:40 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by arguru View Post
It was a long day yesterday guys so I didn't get any time to post updates, however, I did go ahead and take captain's advice and have a third party repair shop read the codes.

As you'd expect, you were all right! a total of six fault codes when they pulled up the car's recent history!.. ALL of which posed safety hazards.

See below:



It should be worth mentioning that none of these codes had anything at all to do with an "emissions" issue. Which if you don't remember, was the reason the dealership stated that they turned off the warning lights.

This was sent yesterday to the North Scottsdale BMW dealership, Penske Automotive's lawyers, and BMWNA. So far, no response.
If nothing moves around, just remind BMW of how that turned out for Lexus/Toyota
(re: safety issue where gas pedal got stuck)
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      12-14-2011, 04:04 PM   #49
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Sad. Only when the business reputations of both Penske and BMWNA are on the line do they pretend to reach out to resolve matters. Stupid ass PR juggernauts.

Fact of the matter is that standard procedures at the dealer service department level should prevent anyone from being aggravated enough to garner to attention of the masses to make his case. Really really pathetic.
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      12-14-2011, 05:35 PM   #50
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very disappointing to hear about this - BMW should be more proactive about dealership selection/training; individuals like the GM of this dealership really smear a world class brand like BMW
No way, BMW gladly accepts the profits that Penske generates for them. BMW is no less sleazy than any other car co. out there, we just happen to like their product. C'mon now, you're talking about a car co. who took features out of the car, from 2009-2011, while increasing the base price. A price increase is one thing, but to take features that were standard and make them optional, not a lot of car cos. do that (because they would lose business). it's like seeing your cereal box go from 18 to 11 oz. and the price go up.
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      12-14-2011, 05:41 PM   #51
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+1, you need a good products liability atty
OP needs to lawyer up himself to be safe and let them be the middleman.
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      12-14-2011, 05:51 PM   #52
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I don't see how you have any legal proof that the original incident was not just a emissions check and that your unfortunate experience on the road was not a separate incident that happened coincidentally 3 day later?

Sure, they will wind up taking care of you and make you feel like you won eventually, but at the end of the day, they would wind up doing that anyway because it's CPO. But this 'lawsuit' that is being discussed will go nowhere without any initial proof on your side. And since there is most likely no to minimal record of your initial visit to the dealership, you have nothing to back up your story in court.
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      12-14-2011, 06:09 PM   #53
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arguru,

Do not get me wrong, I had my own go arounds with dealers some successful and other not so. I can tell you, even if you are 100% right and factually correct and I have no doubts you are, it does not matter when it comes to posting stuff like this for the world to see. Company no matter how right or wrong they are will do what every is needed to make sure these kinds of things disappears. Hell there is even a website out there people and companies can hire to watch for negative information about them and this company promises to make it go away and ensures only the positive things show up. How do they make it go away, they come after the you with lawyers.

I am on your side on this one, I had a similar experience 20 yrs ago with a new car and took 5 trips to the dealer and almost 3 near miss accidents before the dealer fix it. Even when you do not think you have leverage with a dealer you do have some. You just have to find where it hurts them the most. If you look around most people who post negative thing about dealers usually end up pulling it down or agreeing to do something to resolve the matter. Very few people get away with blasting them on the net and still getting what they want.

Anyway, I did read both your posting since it did sound very dangerous, in your originally posting you said days before you had a similar warning come up, the triangle with the circle around it. If I understand the BMW warnings correctly that warning usually shows up with another warning tell you what exactly subsystem is causing the problem. When you bring the car in and handed them the Key Fob they know exactly what the warning is, they do not need to go to the car. The fact the CA clear it on you, means it would not show up in your report you posted here unless they were the same warnings. If I was you before you go off thinking they cleared warning which were much more serious, get the report from the dealer on what codes were showing when you dropped it off the first time. If the code was different the first time and what you are showing now then the two events may not be related. Ever time I have gone in for service they show me the key FOB report showing exactly what codes are showing up.

You need to serious consider this as possibility, because if the CA clear some sort of service notice warning and the above codes were not there at the first time, you might have gone off on a rant which was not valid.

Again the two warnings could be two different event all together, obviously the first one did not cause the car to act erratically, however, the second event had much different outcome.
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      12-14-2011, 06:09 PM   #54
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Most people in your case usually don't let people know who the specific dealer is for this very reason, but you already did so that's that. Don't back down. Empty lawyer threats don't mean anything. Just because they're big timers doesn't mean anything as long as you have a solid case and they have... NOTHING. Good luck and get a m3 out of it.
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      12-14-2011, 06:34 PM   #55
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There are 2 other dealerships in the Phoenix area. How about having one of the other ones take a look at it?
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      12-14-2011, 07:28 PM   #56
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Not all lawyers, but most are malicious and have no heart. They choose a profession that requires lying every day, I mean come on look at what the U.S. has become thanks to lawyers.
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      12-14-2011, 08:40 PM   #57
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Quote:
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Yea that sounds nice and all, but why haven't I been getting any responses back after I sent you and Penske both the report from the independent repair shop proving that they are liars and they DID in fact seriously endanger my life as well as hundreds of others who drive on our local roads daily?

It seems like both you and Penske were interested in "helping" me with this issue when you thought that you could disprove me and somehow discredit what I went through... but when I showed you the third party evidence showing that I've been telling the truth the whole time and North Scottsdale BMW has been lying, all of the sudden I can't get anyone to call me back?

What's wrong BMWNA? No longer interested in this now that you know the real truth behind this and not North Scottsdale BMW's cover up?
arguru

you have their attention. Don't spit in their face. The last post by BMWNA was about a year or more ago, so this is obviously something they are taking seriously.

Although its regrettable that BMWNA allows the surprising number of poor dealers out there, they are not one and the same. Penske may be trash but let BMW NA look at the car; I'm sure they are legitimately concerned about what happened.
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      12-14-2011, 10:58 PM   #58
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taibanl,

I'm not "spitting" in anyone's face. Fact is that out in the open, they're addressing it for all you to see and behind the curtains, don't wanna deal with it. I can't get a call returned for the life of me.

I went to the dealership and spoke with the main service advisor yesterday to get a copy of the report on my car from when I went in and this all started. The service advisor literally told me they had the info but flat out REFUSED to give it to me stating that it's for "BMW's eyes only". After pressing the issue he had mentioned BMWNA not allowing it to be released to me.

Now that presents a problem to me. Wouldn't it for you?

Between North Scottsdale BMW, Penske Automotive, and BMWNA, there are many OTHER things they've done that could be considered shady/bad business/unethical. Giving them the benefit of the doubt, I've chosen not to post these things because there's a chance (as small as it might be) that they could be misunderstandings.

I'm all for amicable resolutions and want to give them the chance to make right. I've got 7 (yes, SEVEN) reputable media outlets ready to publish stories based off this info. I have easy-ins with the media due to the fact that I spent so many years as a journalist working with these outlets directly. Not to mention that ANY news outlet would salivate at this type of story, whether I've had any past affiliation with them or not.

Can you guess how many I've had actually publish the story? ZERO!! I can make this story go viral anytime I want. The furthest that this has has gone is this forum, speaking to other BMW enthusiasts and asking for advice on how to proceed.

As far as blowing this out of the water, I've showed an incredible amount of restraint and the LAST thing I'm doing is "spitting in their face".

I've gone so far out of my way to be as cool as I can be with this but I have my limits. When BMW wants to reach out to me in front of everyone on a public forum but then doesn't want to talk to me privately because I have news that they were hoping not to hear, I've got a problem with that. You should too.

Furthermore, I'm not even gonna touch the forum for 24 hours. Let's see if they reach out.

Like I said, I'm all for an amicable resolution. the last thing I'm doing is spitting in anyone's face.

We'll wait and see.
Reasonable on all accords.
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      12-14-2011, 11:00 PM   #59
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taibanl,

I'm not "spitting" in anyone's face. Fact is that out in the open, they're addressing it for all you to see and behind the curtains, don't wanna deal with it. I can't get a call returned for the life of me.

I went to the dealership and spoke with the main service advisor yesterday to get a copy of the report on my car from when I went in and this all started. The service advisor literally told me they had the info but flat out REFUSED to give it to me stating that it's for "BMW's eyes only". After pressing the issue he had mentioned BMWNA not allowing it to be released to me.

Now that presents a problem to me. Wouldn't it for you?

Between North Scottsdale BMW, Penske Automotive, and BMWNA, there are many OTHER things they've done that could be considered shady/bad business/unethical. Giving them the benefit of the doubt, I've chosen not to post these things because there's a chance (as small as it might be) that they could be misunderstandings.

I'm all for amicable resolutions and want to give them the chance to make right. I've got 7 (yes, SEVEN) reputable media outlets ready to publish stories based off this info. I have easy-ins with the media due to the fact that I spent so many years as a journalist working with these outlets directly. Not to mention that ANY news outlet would salivate at this type of story, whether I've had any past affiliation with them or not.

Can you guess how many I've had actually publish the story? ZERO!! I can make this story go viral anytime I want. The furthest that this has has gone is this forum, speaking to other BMW enthusiasts and asking for advice on how to proceed.

As far as blowing this out of the water, I've showed an incredible amount of restraint and the LAST thing I'm doing is "spitting in their face".

I've gone so far out of my way to be as cool as I can be with this but I have my limits. When BMW wants to reach out to me in front of everyone on a public forum but then doesn't want to talk to me privately because I have news that they were hoping not to hear, I've got a problem with that. You should too.

Furthermore, I'm not even gonna touch the forum for 24 hours. Let's see if they reach out.

Like I said, I'm all for an amicable resolution. the last thing I'm doing is spitting in anyone's face.

We'll wait and see.
please keep us updated. this is my dealership and want to know how they handle a situation like this.

you can't have nice things in this world anymore, can you? sigh.
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      12-15-2011, 12:55 AM   #60
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I feel for you arguru, I don't think I would have had the patience you do. I hope it works out for you.
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      12-15-2011, 01:15 AM   #61
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Keep on the good fight, arguru.
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      12-15-2011, 03:13 AM   #62
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Just catching up with your story..... Good luck man!
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      12-15-2011, 03:51 AM   #63
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Honestly, at this point, I'd refuse to drive the car and let it sit until this gets settled down. You can always rent a car. With their shady documentation practices, you're better off not driving the car because something else might happen to it, or even worse - the same thing and you're not so lucky. Just my 2 cents.. I think a rental would be worth it, even if you don't get reimbursed.
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      12-15-2011, 05:30 PM   #64
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Just a quick update guys:

BMWNA finally got back in touch with me this morning and asked if I would allow them to do an independent inspection on my car and I obliged.

I literally just got back from one of their dealerships... obviously not the one I had the issue with.

Trust that I WILL keep all of you posted as to how this turns out whether BMWNA steps up or not, you all will know either way.

Stay tuned...
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      12-15-2011, 05:48 PM   #65
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I cant see that this will be a PR disaster for BMW nor a huge story from you.

They will just change a few things, as a goodwill gesture, never admit liability, nobody else will have the same problem on e90post and it will be forgotten.

We will only remember the douche bag manager at Penski and remember how much we hate car salesmen.

You might get a pen out of it! (although you will sign a non disclosure statement that will prevent us from ever verifying that you actually received said pen)
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      12-15-2011, 05:49 PM   #66
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Not all lawyers, but most are malicious and have no heart. They choose a profession that requires lying every day, I mean come on look at what the U.S. has become thanks to lawyers.
Once in a while you find exceptions (not often enough). My buddy made his fortune in his late 20's with 9/11 cases. He began doing pro-bono work for all kinds of battered women incl. junkies, prostitutes, once he did that he became more and more interested in social work and left his firm. He had an Ivy LLM and ended up getting a MS in social work and began working as a social worker, with a salary of 33k. He doesn't need any more money, owns 2 apt. bldgs in Cobble Hill, really amazing what he has done by age 35. I guess the point is he has that mind that could have competed and survived not only an Ivy law but going further. The world of social work is all the better for it. He's a terrible landlord, though, let's people slide for more than 12 mos. on rent. Is he getting taken advantage of? You bet. But it makes him feel good.
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