Will the 335i be disgraced? - BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum

CaptOz · 05-20-2007, 04:07 AM

I know a group of people who take their cars to a racetrack (Wakefield) every few months for a bit of fun. They all own Porsche 911s ranging from a 3.4 Steptronic 996 upwards.

I have been invited to join them on their next outing. I have a stock Steptonic 335i coupe but by the time we meet up I should have a PROcede installed. I understand driving ability will play a large part but we should all be fairly evenly matched as far as skill goes.

My question is do you think I will have a chance of competing with any of these Porsches or will they leave me in their dust?

I want these guys to be impressed with what a BMW can do and not be laughing at it.

Cheers.

AndrewAZ · 05-20-2007, 04:20 AM

Just turn traction control off but leave on DSC, go and have some fun on the strait line you should be even with some of the older porsches, the thing about porsches is they have very good elasticity like the ferraris so rolling acceleration they will be very quick. But like all porsches all the weight is in the back so you will have a better balanced car which will be easier for a beginner to control in the corners.. Just have fun, the attitude of whos car is the fastest goes away on the track, its all about having a good time and having proper cornering technique, people will be more impressed with your driving ability than how fast your lap times are. Remember have fun.

gmund1948 · 05-20-2007, 05:50 AM

Autobild did a test a the Hockenheim ring in Germany testing the 335 with Sport Suspension but only 17"s (not the highest performance tires available) versus a 997S wearing 19"s with the latest tires. both manual tranny, and using several talented drivers, the Average lap time was 2 Secs slower for the BMW convertable versus the Porsche, one second of the difference, they said could have been in the wheels and tires.

Verdict, the Porsche was more of a pure sports car, but with an LSD
the BMW would be equal, Porsche was slightly more fun to drive

Final Comments

You could buy 2 335 Convertables in Germany for the Price of the 997S Cabriolet, so what would you do

Price as Tested BMW 335 E93 62,500 Euro incl VAT ($ 85,791 USD

)

Price as Tested 911 vert (997S Cab) 124,500 Euro including VAT
($165,503 USD

)

So I bought the E93 (Build date is May 21st) PU in 10 days here in Germany
Space Grey/ Dakota Brown 6MT ZCP ZSP CA ( I will add LSD )
I will be picking up an 08 M3 in April to add to it to the fleet.

The cost For both will be less (or equal to ) a New 997Gt3 Loaded

Sorry Porsche, You have priced yourself out of the game and since I have been a Loyal fan for 30 Years and own several from 58 through 73 and a 93RSA you are the ones who lose, especially in the long run

First BMW since a 2002 TII

From Germany

CaptOz · 05-20-2007, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmund1948

.....Verdict, the Porsche was more of a pure sports car, but with an LSD
the BMW would be equal, Porsche was slightly more fun to drive .....

So I have got to get myself a LSD installed before we meet.

Cheers.

gmund1948 · 05-20-2007, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptOz

So I have got to get myself a LSD installed before we meet.

Cheers.

No actually I think if you did a Proceed, turbo tuner and 18s with real tires you would have it

The LSD thing is only for people who remember what Orange sunshine was

Hint its what some auto Journalists seem to under the influence of

Its not a florescent color from the 70s 2002

BzzzBom · 05-20-2007, 09:00 AM

Get an oil cooler retrofit before getting on the track!

montrealm3 · 05-20-2007, 09:51 AM

to be honest the biggest variable will be you, the driver.

I have seen honda civics take out boxsters at PCA lapping days.

A 997S is a superior car, period. What that equates to on a track with equal drivers could be a difference of 2-4 seconds on a 2 minute high speed track (same tire setup, R compounds).

The question is does the price difference warrant the extra seconds at the lapping days?

NaViT · 05-20-2007, 12:18 PM

with the Proceed ull hang perfectly... and u wont be worrying about noone else cause itll be fun regardless

BMW E90 · 05-20-2007, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montrealm3

to be honest the biggest variable will be you, the driver.

+1
I was just gonna say that just relax and enjoy it. Dont try to overdo anything and end up posting "crashed my 335 today

". Pick your battle and stand your ground, just dont overkill it.

Saintor · 05-20-2007, 12:23 PM

What you want your 45K$ car to match capabilities of 80K$ ones (won't happen)? I don't see a point here.

BMW E90 · 05-20-2007, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saintor

What you want your 45K$ car to match capabilities of 80K$ ones (won't happen)? I don't see a point here.

Im sure the 0-60 in 3.4 Porches are about $125k starting.

bronco · 05-20-2007, 12:32 PM

just have fun, and try to learn how it handles the best for your driving. Dont worry about the other guys

T Bone · 05-20-2007, 12:47 PM

Agree with MontrealM3.....around a track, the biggest variable will be driver.

The 335i has enough power to play with the 911 with drivers who have some skill. It is not like a Honda Civic.

Just be aware that in general a better driver in a slower car can not get around a faster car with crappy driver. Simply because you cannot pass in the twisties and don't have enough power to pass on the straights.

dmboone25 · 05-20-2007, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptOz

So I have got to get myself a LSD installed before we meet.

Cheers.

lol--that's funny.

gmund1948 · 05-20-2007, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saintor

What you want your 45K$ car to match capabilities of 80K$ ones (won't happen)? I don't see a point here.

I dont know, my $43K C-6 will outhandle and out perform an E46 M3
at the same Hockenheim track its not how much you pay for your Car

Drivers ability has much more to do with it I am sure with Pilgram or Stuck
behind the wheel even of an e30 M Prepared for the track I would lose, I
am only an Instructor and P.T. week-end racer. The Pros are just that Pros

I was at the Nurburgring where a well prepared VW Bora (Jetta) turbo Diesel left
a stock M-3 in his dust. The Driver has run the 24 of daytona as well as the Ring and Spa. He knows the ring by heart and the car is dialed, he is amazing and has taught me a lot, like a prepared race car is much safer, and easier to drive very fast than any street machine, Its usually cheaper to fix too

I disagree a slower car with an uber experienced driver will often win, cornering is an art
form and scrubing speed can be controlled by these masters. But then again they could careless about drag racing
From Germany where the price doesnt count as much as the driver !

bobnaz · 05-20-2007, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BzzzBom

Get an oil cooler retrofit before getting on the track!

For sure! Remeber, the 335 is a street car although a very good one. I've had my 335 at 3 different tracks, it's heavy so you have to brake a little earlier than most but in a straight line they will be impressed...have a fun safe day

JSpira · 05-20-2007, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T Bone

Just be aware that in general a better driver in a slower car can not get around a faster car with crappy driver. Simply because you cannot pass in the twisties and don't have enough power to pass on the straights.

I'm not at all sure I agree with that. Assuming that the difference between the faster and slower cars is not, say, the magnitude of a VW Käfer v. an M3, a better driver will outdistance a crappy driver every time. Knowing when to brake, how to follow the line, and even knowing the track better (the OP mentioned that these guys are regulars) all come into play.

Remember, you can exit a corner faster only if you know how to enter it.

BoostedBMW · 05-20-2007, 05:10 PM

Don't worry about trying to impress your friends, you might get yourself into trouble on the track then. Just go and have fun with your friends, and become a better driver in the process.

You can also keep in mind that your car costs half of what their cars do.

DrewKo · 05-20-2007, 05:28 PM

I suggest breaking a little earlier into the turns...take them slowly at first to get a feel because the 335i does not handle like a Porsche. It handles pretty well, but is heavy and the body roll is more significant. You can drive fast in the fast parts of the track and slow down for the slow parts (common sense, I know). Also, the brakes are excellent...they won't fade (although some may suggest otherwise, I have had no brake fade and others who have driven my car and are regular track drivers complimented the braking), but the car is still pretty heavy, so take it slowly until you get the right feel and lines around the turns. Also, I agree that you will do better with better tires and wheels. If you do not have the oil cooler, your car will eventually get heat soaked and you will have to give it a break or it will go into limp mode. Have fun and be modest, non-egotistical, non-aggressive, and safe on the track.

CokerRat · 05-20-2007, 05:51 PM

Lots of good advice above. If this day is just hot lapping, then see if you can get an experienced driver to show you the proper lines...go slow and build up your speed. Better yet, sign up for a high-performance driving school.

E90ice · 05-20-2007, 05:53 PM

Just go out there and have fun!

I think the 335 with Procede will hold its own.

But you still have to remember that the Prosches are made for track performance.

I know the 911 Turbo is in a totally different league than the 335. No comparison there! Sorry...11.4 sec 1/4 mile stock (C&D), Outstanding brakes and suspensions.

Of course the driver is an important factor too.

Just have fun. I'm jealous!

tjnptel1 · 05-20-2007, 05:54 PM

i wish i lived near a track

05-20-2007, 04:07 AM	#1
CaptOz Captain Drives: Porsche 911 Carrera S Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 833 iTrader: (0)	Will the 335i be disgraced? I know a group of people who take their cars to a racetrack (Wakefield) every few months for a bit of fun. They all own Porsche 911s ranging from a 3.4 Steptronic 996 upwards. I have been invited to join them on their next outing. I have a stock Steptonic 335i coupe but by the time we meet up I should have a PROcede installed. I understand driving ability will play a large part but we should all be fairly evenly matched as far as skill goes. My question is do you think I will have a chance of competing with any of these Porsches or will they leave me in their dust? I want these guys to be impressed with what a BMW can do and not be laughing at it. Cheers.

05-20-2007, 05:50 AM	#3
gmund1948 Second Lieutenant Drives: 335 cab,C-6 08, 73 911E 59 D, Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: American in Germany Posts: 253 iTrader: (0)	E93 335 Versus 997S Cab test in Germany 2 fer 1 sale Autobild did a test a the Hockenheim ring in Germany testing the 335 with Sport Suspension but only 17"s (not the highest performance tires available) versus a 997S wearing 19"s with the latest tires. both manual tranny, and using several talented drivers, the Average lap time was 2 Secs slower for the BMW convertable versus the Porsche, one second of the difference, they said could have been in the wheels and tires. Verdict, the Porsche was more of a pure sports car, but with an LSD the BMW would be equal, Porsche was slightly more fun to drive Final Comments You could buy 2 335 Convertables in Germany for the Price of the 997S Cabriolet, so what would you do Price as Tested BMW 335 E93 62,500 Euro incl VAT ($ 85,791 USD ) Price as Tested 911 vert (997S Cab) 124,500 Euro including VAT ($165,503 USD ) So I bought the E93 (Build date is May 21st) PU in 10 days here in Germany Space Grey/ Dakota Brown 6MT ZCP ZSP CA ( I will add LSD ) I will be picking up an 08 M3 in April to add to it to the fleet. The cost For both will be less (or equal to ) a New 997Gt3 Loaded Sorry Porsche, You have priced yourself out of the game and since I have been a Loyal fan for 30 Years and own several from 58 through 73 and a 93RSA you are the ones who lose, especially in the long run First BMW since a 2002 TII From Germany __________________ TELL me what real drivers training do you have besides your State Drivers License ?

05-20-2007, 12:32 PM	#12
bronco Colonel Drives: e92 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Atlanta Posts: 2,085 iTrader: (0)	just have fun, and try to learn how it handles the best for your driving. Dont worry about the other guys __________________ SaaS - The world of tomorrow is already here...www.saaschronicles.com

05-20-2007, 12:47 PM	#13
T Bone Brigadier General Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: The land where we kill baby seals Posts: 4,011 iTrader: (0)	Nut behind the Wheel Agree with MontrealM3.....around a track, the biggest variable will be driver. The 335i has enough power to play with the 911 with drivers who have some skill. It is not like a Honda Civic. Just be aware that in general a better driver in a slower car can not get around a faster car with crappy driver. Simply because you cannot pass in the twisties and don't have enough power to pass on the straights. __________________ "Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari

05-20-2007, 05:10 PM	#18
BoostedBMW Moderator Drives: TiAg E92 335 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 6,817 iTrader: (14) View BoostedBMW's Garage	Don't worry about trying to impress your friends, you might get yourself into trouble on the track then. Just go and have fun with your friends, and become a better driver in the process. You can also keep in mind that your car costs half of what their cars do. __________________ -Michael. Berlina Black S2000 CR is now in the garage l 19" Rial Daytona Race l KW V2 l Eisenhaus Race Exhaust l

05-20-2007, 04:20 AM	#2
AndrewAZ Major Drives: C350 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,243 iTrader: (0)	Just turn traction control off but leave on DSC, go and have some fun on the strait line you should be even with some of the older porsches, the thing about porsches is they have very good elasticity like the ferraris so rolling acceleration they will be very quick. But like all porsches all the weight is in the back so you will have a better balanced car which will be easier for a beginner to control in the corners.. Just have fun, the attitude of whos car is the fastest goes away on the track, its all about having a good time and having proper cornering technique, people will be more impressed with your driving ability than how fast your lap times are. Remember have fun.

05-20-2007, 09:00 AM	#6
BzzzBom Captain Drives: 05 R53 MINI / 09 335i Coupe Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 956 iTrader: (0)	Get an oil cooler retrofit before getting on the track!

05-20-2007, 09:51 AM	#7
montrealm3 Private Drives: bmw Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: canada Posts: 57 iTrader: (0)	to be honest the biggest variable will be you, the driver. I have seen honda civics take out boxsters at PCA lapping days. A 997S is a superior car, period. What that equates to on a track with equal drivers could be a difference of 2-4 seconds on a 2 minute high speed track (same tire setup, R compounds). The question is does the price difference warrant the extra seconds at the lapping days?

05-20-2007, 12:18 PM	#8
NaViT Banned Drives: 04 M3/E92 335i Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: N.Florida Posts: 3,447 iTrader: (11)	with the Proceed ull hang perfectly... and u wont be worrying about noone else cause itll be fun regardless

05-20-2007, 12:23 PM	#10
Saintor Banned Drives: E90 Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: MTL, Canada Posts: 1,005 iTrader: (0)	What you want your 45K$ car to match capabilities of 80K$ ones (won't happen)? I don't see a point here.

05-20-2007, 05:28 PM	#19
DrewKo Lieutenant Colonel Drives: 335i Montego Blue Saddle Brown Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 1,546 iTrader: (4) View DrewKo's Garage	I suggest breaking a little earlier into the turns...take them slowly at first to get a feel because the 335i does not handle like a Porsche. It handles pretty well, but is heavy and the body roll is more significant. You can drive fast in the fast parts of the track and slow down for the slow parts (common sense, I know). Also, the brakes are excellent...they won't fade (although some may suggest otherwise, I have had no brake fade and others who have driven my car and are regular track drivers complimented the braking), but the car is still pretty heavy, so take it slowly until you get the right feel and lines around the turns. Also, I agree that you will do better with better tires and wheels. If you do not have the oil cooler, your car will eventually get heat soaked and you will have to give it a break or it will go into limp mode. Have fun and be modest, non-egotistical, non-aggressive, and safe on the track.

05-20-2007, 05:51 PM	#20
CokerRat Private Drives: 2007 E90 335i Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 96 iTrader: (0)	Lots of good advice above. If this day is just hot lapping, then see if you can get an experienced driver to show you the proper lines...go slow and build up your speed. Better yet, sign up for a high-performance driving school.

05-20-2007, 05:53 PM	#21
E90ice Banned Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe Join Date: May 2006 Location: WA Posts: 2,007 iTrader: (0)	Just go out there and have fun! I think the 335 with Procede will hold its own. But you still have to remember that the Prosches are made for track performance. I know the 911 Turbo is in a totally different league than the 335. No comparison there! Sorry...11.4 sec 1/4 mile stock (C&D), Outstanding brakes and suspensions. Of course the driver is an important factor too. Just have fun. I'm jealous! __________________

05-20-2007, 05:54 PM	#22
tjnptel1 Cunning Linguist Drives: 335i Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 2,182 iTrader: (0) View tjnptel1's Garage	i wish i lived near a track __________________ Bottles are for babies, Real men get blown.