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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Headers and mounts



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      07-14-2014, 05:01 PM   #1
justpete
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Headers and mounts

Getting a bunch of work done for the last couple of weeks, AKG Motorsport engine mounts went in today.

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And Supersprint headers are back today from Cradin with a CI-528 coating inside and out.

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A custom Clutchmasters 850 with billet flywheel went in last week

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And the UUC transmission mounts went in last week as well

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The AKG DSSR is installed waiting on the Ultra Shifter which got installed the next day

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Pics from Classic BMW Motorsports where all the work is being done. No connection with them other than paying for the work. Thought these might be of some interest.
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      07-14-2014, 05:15 PM   #2
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Not a fan of the UUC transmount, but be sure to tell us how it works out for you. Those engine mounts seem...extreme. Interested in driving impressions and dynos of course.
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      07-14-2014, 05:36 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
Not a fan of the UUC transmount, but be sure to tell us how it works out for you. Those engine mounts seem...extreme. Interested in driving impressions and dynos of course.
Yeah, I'm not completely convinced the trans mounts are all they're cracked up to be, we'll see. At least they're cheap and easy to swap out.

And the engine mounts are extreme, no doubt about that. Don't really care about NVH although I am concerned about the engine tearing itself up. ATI Performance doesn't make a Super Damper for the N52 so it has to be custom made. And that requires some measurements of the crankshaft nose and the crankshaft weight, among other things. Can't find the info and BMW won't supply so I gotta buy one. Figures. Non-returnable at fourteen hundred bucks, about what a Super Damper will cost, more or less.

Dynos will be run for baseline and then again after uploading the AA stage 3 tune. The currently loaded tune is the three stage manifold tune optimized for headers. The stage 3 tune manages the cat ready states. I'll post them as soon as I have them, it'll be done on a DynoDynamic.
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      07-14-2014, 06:02 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justpete View Post
Yeah, I'm not completely convinced the trans mounts are all they're cracked up to be, we'll see. At least they're cheap and easy to swap out.

And the engine mounts are extreme, no doubt about that. Don't really care about NVH although I am concerned about the engine tearing itself up. ATI Performance doesn't make a Super Damper for the N52 so it has to be custom made. And that requires some measurements of the crankshaft nose and the crankshaft weight, among other things. Can't find the info and BMW won't supply so I gotta buy one. Figures. Non-returnable at fourteen hundred bucks, about what a Super Damper will cost, more or less.

Dynos will be run for baseline and then again after uploading the AA stage 3 tune. The currently loaded tune is the three stage manifold tune optimized for headers. The stage 3 tune manages the cat ready states. I'll post them as soon as I have them, it'll be done on a DynoDynamic.
WOW, 1400?! Prices have really gone up, I think it was $800 back when we last looked (and there was a group buy for it, knocking the price down further) AT took their sweet time in making it, but I'm not sure about much beyond that.

I will say I haven't heard of any harmonic issues with the N52 like there was with the M54, but you'd want to check with the club racers on what the common wear areas are. Worst case scenario, you have to treat it like a consumable item.

I'm REALLY curious to see how the headers change the powerband, it's my next project.
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      07-14-2014, 07:59 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
WOW, 1400?! Prices have really gone up, I think it was $800 back when we last looked (and there was a group buy for it, knocking the price down further) AT took their sweet time in making it, but I'm not sure about much beyond that.

I will say I haven't heard of any harmonic issues with the N52 like there was with the M54, but you'd want to check with the club racers on what the common wear areas are. Worst case scenario, you have to treat it like a consumable item.

I'm REALLY curious to see how the headers change the powerband, it's my next project.
ATI sez a custom could run as high as $1800. And it'd take eight weeks. Great. Maybe I could make a lamp out of the crankshaft...

The engine seems smooth but it's on hydraulic mounts so no telling what it's really like. As long as it doesn't thrash itself I'm good with it I think. I don't know of anyone using the N52 but I do know the SCCA E Production class rules won't allow it due to the magnesium in the block, has to be all aluminum.

Will be interesting to see what the dyno charts out at. Last dyno run was around 195hp, give or take, uncorrected. I'd be happy (amazed) with a pickup of ten to fifteen hp. One of the headers has already been wrapped with ThermoTec, the idea being to keep the exhaust gases as hot as possible as long as possible to optimize scavenging. Not that this is news or anything but mainly why I might not be amazed if the hp gain or appearance of gain is reasonably closer to the 15hp number. And pigs'll fly maybe, dunno.

Conditions were about the same last time we ran dynos but we'll see. The Race Technology DL1Mk3 can compute hp and now I'll have the correct weight instead of an estimate to input along with a better estimate of tire rolling radius, etc. I have data from previous track runs to compare against so that'll be another datapoint to take with a grain of salt...
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      07-14-2014, 08:10 PM   #6
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Wow.

What are the impressions of the DSSR/DTM arm by AKG.?? Was thereany issues with mounting it, did you have to use any thin nylon washers?

Did you refresh the connector @ transmission to a new one? I feel that I have to change mine to stop all extra side to side movement.

Very impressive Build. Thank you for sharing.
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      07-14-2014, 08:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrey_gta View Post
Wow.

What are the impressions of the DSSR/DTM arm by AKG.?? Was thereany issues with mounting it, did you have to use any thin nylon washers?

Did you refresh the connector @ transmission to a new one? I feel that I have to change mine to stop all extra side to side movement.

Very impressive Build. Thank you for sharing.
Since the Ultra Shifter mounting plate is undrilled the whole arrangement has to be aligned with the gates before drilling to mount it. There were no problems with it and the DSSR, works very nicely with a ridiculously short throw, just like CAE promised it would.

The connector at the trans wasn't replaced, at least as far as I know. I don't remember seeing it on the short shift assembly after its removal. The shifter looks and feels quite tight, no appreciable side to side movement but that might be the spring centering in the Ultra Shifter.

The plan is to leave the shifter exposed 'cuz racecar. Well, that and it looks so cool it seems a crime to reuse the gaiter from the BMW SSK. And since the DL1 is in the console there's a cable to be routed past the shifter to get connected to the PT_CANbus. The cable from the windshield mounted DASH3 is to find its way through the dash and along the tunnel to the console as well so the cabin will finally be free of cables and connectors wandering about under gobs of gaffers tape. No more OBDII connection needed either, good thing 'cuz a few more times and I swear I was gonna break the whole thing off the car

More pictures to come. Another group of pics are in the N52 forum covering the engine and driveline. More to come there too.

Without all the help of Tom Bull, Race Team Mngr and Crew Chief (passed away 15Feb14) and the advice of Chase Borden, Car Chief, there's no way this build could've gotten off the ground. It got its first mods with the odo at less than 900mi, it's just over 30Kmi now.
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      07-14-2014, 08:33 PM   #8
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Well, We were looking back for the M52/M54/S52 and it took around 8 weeks for them to make it, which is crazy. From what I remember, on the M5X, the retainers were another weak sport - I guess this motor is too new for us to know for sure.

As for headers, from what I've seen 15whp over the stock units (especially with a tune) wouldn't be considered outlandish.


This is with stock units with the converter cut out and a basemap - SS will be far better.
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      07-14-2014, 08:35 PM   #9
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I didn't ask before, but what are you using the car for?
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      07-14-2014, 08:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
Well, We were looking back for the M52/M54/S52 and it took around 8 weeks for them to make it, which is crazy. From what I remember, on the M5X, the retainers were another weak sport - I guess this motor is too new for us to know for sure.

As for headers, from what I've seen 15whp over the stock units (especially with a tune) wouldn't be considered outlandish.


This is with stock units with the converter cut out and a basemap - SS will be far better.
Good news, thanks! We'll see how well the motor holds up. I'm thinking about a swap to a VAC S54 and a five speed dogbox next year so it may not matter much.
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      07-14-2014, 08:38 PM   #11
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I didn't ask before, but what are you using the car for?
It's my daily. Yeah. Lunacy. But I'm easily amused I guess...
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      07-14-2014, 08:41 PM   #12
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Quote:
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It's my daily. Yeah. Lunacy. But I'm easily amused I guess...
I'd love to read a build thread (and driving impressions) if you've made one. I can't believe you daily this!
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      07-14-2014, 09:03 PM   #13
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Subscribed! Thought my ssk and IS motor/trans mounts were cool but never mind
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      07-14-2014, 09:06 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
I'd love to read a build thread (and driving impressions) if you've made one. I can't believe you daily this!
The suspension work is under that forum at the moment, more pictures to come here and there.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1010510

I've been driving it with the BMW Performance Suspension since it had less than 900 miles on it and I did buy it new in January of 2012. Got PI, PE, and SSK at the same time. Changed out the light walnut trim to aluminum close to a couple of months later, about when it got stainless brake lines and Motul 600 which is now replaced with Torque RT700. Camber plates, wheels, and tires were replaced with 216s and Pirelli P-Zero RFTs about a year later at about 13Kmi. Got the HPA M3 strut brace a month later just to make it easier to adjust the camber plates. The diff was swapped out in August of last year right at 20Kmi, the same time the first AA tune got uploaded on the dyno. Also did the CDV delete then.

Been driving it this way until it went in for the Apex wheels and Toyo tires a few weeks back. The R1R 255/35ZR18 square setup made a big difference but it did make the ride considerably harsher although it's still too quiet, too smooth, and too tame for me. It handles nicely but not sharply. The M3 control arms were suggested as a first step with the rear subframe bushings, etc., limited to 'next steps' at the time. And suggested as urethane at that.

Tom Bull, Race Team Mngr and Crew Chief of Classic BMW's race team was my S/A since I bought the car so we talked often about mods, etc., the diff being his suggestion last summer. He sadly passed away in February of this year but Chase Borden, Car Chief, is doing all the work, and always has, and has provided a lot of insight since as well as graciously putting up with a ton of stupid questions. Eventually the 'next step' kinda got out of control, not complaining as it was my idea. So we're using all the same parts they use in their race cars where it's feasible and streetable.

It's not so much a daily as a streetable track car, that's the target anyway. I expect it to be uncomfortable, technically speaking, but I won't really notice as I want it to be tight and quick on the street, kinda like being able to practice, sorta, most of what one gets used to on the track. I really came to dislike the staggered setup and the wobbly rear suspension/subframe as well as the obstinate steering. The wandering transmission gates made shifting where one shouldn't a bit scary. The BMW SSK is a nice shifter and all but not what I'd consider really short or really precise, thus the CAE. All in all, sloppy just had to go. Everywhere. And that's how it got to this ridiculous level of mods. One nice thing though. Nobody's gonna be asking for a ride after the first time...
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Last edited by justpete; 05-25-2016 at 12:56 AM.
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      07-15-2014, 03:21 PM   #15
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Headers are wrapped and installed

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Better view of the engine mount from above

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Better view of the engine mount from the side

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      07-15-2014, 04:02 PM   #16
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I will be shocked if this isn't rattling your face off.

Also, toss those UUC mounts ASAP.
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      07-15-2014, 04:23 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSt|G View Post
I will be shocked if this isn't rattling your face off.

Also, toss those UUC mounts ASAP.
Yeah, I expect it'll be pretty severe at low revs, we'll see anyway.

What's the consensus on other trans mounts? Thanks!
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      07-15-2014, 04:25 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justpete View Post
Yeah, I expect it'll be pretty severe at low revs, we'll see anyway.

What's the consensus on other trans mounts? Thanks!
The general consensus, as always, is anything but UUC.
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      07-15-2014, 04:31 PM   #19
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The general consensus, as always, is anything but UUC.
Heh. Yeah, I've heard that. Vorshlag 80A or 95A seem to be the only real alternative for the E9x non-M3. Rogue Engineering makes some as well. Not aware of any others, what am I missing? The only ones at VAC are solid aluminum.
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      07-15-2014, 05:23 PM   #20
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Rogue were on my last car, and UUC on the car before it. Rogue's were as stiff and didn't have the vibration the UUC parts did.
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      07-15-2014, 05:29 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
Rogue were on my last car, and UUC on the car before it. Rogue's were as stiff and didn't have the vibration the UUC parts did.
Thanks. The RE mounts have the same sort of design as the UUC mounts, don't they? I mean neither are bolt-through but overmolded separate pieces. They're different materials of course. Wondering if there's something inherently flawed in the UUC design versus others, disregarding NVH differences anyway.
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      07-15-2014, 05:30 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justpete View Post
Thanks. The RE mounts have the same sort of design as the UUC mounts, don't they? I mean neither are bolt-through but overmolded separate pieces. They're different materials of course. Wondering if there's something inherently flawed in the UUC design versus others, disregarding NVH differences anyway.
Mine had the enforcer plates. I'm just not a fan of Poly anything, they chunk and break off from what I've seen.
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