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      10-20-2015, 08:49 PM   #1
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+ 15 hp and 16 ft/lbs for $80

The title sounds too good to be true. But for those willing to risk the modest sum of $80 plus dyno fees, you could easily prove or refute the claim yourself.

Dyno'd my car this morning. The purpose was to establish a new baseline to assess results for an upcoming exhaust project. The run was performed at the same shop and Mustang dyno as I used last summer. The ambient conditions were similar (50 deg F last summer and 54 deg today).

1) The chart shows results from this morning compared with those from last June

2) Power mods since last June include:

A. DIY Dinan-style CAI (parts - $20 for shp-vac hose from Lowes)
B. Charcoal filter delete
C. Rev Motoring silicon hose replacing stock intake muffler (~$60 on eBay)


3) Bottom Line:
  • Today: 238HP / 212TQ
  • June: 222HP / 194TQ
  • Delta: +16HP / +18TQ

Observations / Thoughts:

1) The new HP & TQ curves are much "smoother" than last summer. It was explained to me that this is consistent with improved breathing

2) AFR is significantly different than stock -

A. it's richer (in 12s vs stoichiometric ideal of 14.7:1)
B. the shape of the curve differs
C. it's choppier / more erratic

3) I estimate ~ 50hp drivetrain loss due to xDrive and Steptronic, based on curves from Axiom's official dyno thread.

4) this implies ~ 290hp at the crank.

Had I read this posted by someone else I would be very skeptical. Heck, the numbers are still hard for me to accept. I told this to the service tech, because I was an engineer and we tend to be overly cautious types. We triple checked all. The tech indicated that the results are not out of the ordinary given his experience with similar mods. I've also shared with The Axiom. I think I am lucky and received a very spunky N52 from BMW.

In any case, $20 for a shop vac hose plus another $60 to replace the stock intake muffler with a smooth silicon hose seems to result in real, usable, and measurable gains. Wanted to share because I've benefitted here, and thought a few people might be interested.
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Last edited by tetsuo111; 10-20-2015 at 09:03 PM.
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      10-20-2015, 08:50 PM   #2
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cool bro
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      10-20-2015, 08:55 PM   #3
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UUUggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....I want a tune.
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      10-20-2015, 08:56 PM   #4
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I have a hunch when you pull the trigger on your tune, it's gonna go big....

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
UUUggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....I want a tune.
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      10-20-2015, 09:01 PM   #5
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tetsuo111, What was the size of the inlet hose to the airbox? Stock paper filter? Any pictures?
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      10-20-2015, 09:05 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuo111 View Post
I have a hunch when you pull the trigger on your tune, it's gonna go big....
I have one, I just can't use it because my tuning device is a POS. Time to save up for that AA tune I've been eyeing....
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      10-20-2015, 09:35 PM   #7
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      10-20-2015, 09:37 PM   #8
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      10-20-2015, 09:50 PM   #9
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Good questions. I can't take credit for any of these ideas. I just reworked projects that were done by others before me. Mr. 5, among others, quickly comes to mind.

- The corrugated plastic hose is from a Shop-Vac extension kit from Lowes. The ID is 2". The corrugation is abysmal for laminar flow. This V1 was just an experiment to see if there was anything to it. I have some 3.5" hose with much smoother lining, that I planned to upgrade, but not yet confident that it will fit. TBD.

- Stock paper filter sans charcoal thingy. Was using the Euro box with oiled PiperCross filter prior to this. I chose to experiment on the NA airbox, and cut holes for the hose with a dremel.

- As you can see, installation is very much prototype style and not fit for public consumption. But the car hasn't fallen apart yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
tetsuo111, What was the size of the inlet hose to the airbox? Stock paper filter? Any pictures?
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      10-20-2015, 09:57 PM   #10
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@[Mike.](contact:204426) LOL - you called me 'my boy'. Thanks - that makes my day! I'm getting older but the girls still look the same

Seriously, you know all the disclaimers that go with dyno runs. I try to do objective tests, but at best these numbers are good for looking at trends, IMO. In this case, the trend is good!

Still wanna touch that magic 300HP number. It's completely arbitrary, the car doesn't know the difference between 300 horses and 294 or 303. But 300 has a nice ring to it. So close, can almost taste it

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      10-20-2015, 10:10 PM   #11
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Can you post pictures of what your airbox looks like and where the CAI pipe is going and coming from?
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      10-20-2015, 10:21 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuo111 View Post
@[Mike.](contact:204426) LOL - you called me 'my boy'. Thanks - that makes my day! I'm getting older but the girls still look the same

Seriously, you know all the disclaimers that go with dyno runs. I try to do objective tests, but at best these numbers are good for looking at trends, IMO. In this case, the trend is good!

Still wanna touch that magic 300HP number. It's completely arbitrary, the car doesn't know the difference between 300 horses and 294 or 303. But 300 has a nice ring to it. So close, can almost taste it
Test pipes and a good exhaust will do it.
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      10-20-2015, 10:21 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by BMW.. View Post
Can you post pictures of what your airbox looks like and where the CAI pipe is going and coming from?
Mine is very similar to this:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1149331
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      10-20-2015, 10:52 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuo111 View Post
@[Mike.](contact:204426) LOL - you called me 'my boy'. Thanks - that makes my day! I'm getting older but the girls still look the same

Seriously, you know all the disclaimers that go with dyno runs. I try to do objective tests, but at best these numbers are good for looking at trends, IMO. In this case, the trend is good!

Still wanna touch that magic 300HP number. It's completely arbitrary, the car doesn't know the difference between 300 horses and 294 or 303. But 300 has a nice ring to it. So close, can almost taste it
glad I can make your day--my day sucked, and my car wonked out as I was coming home from a succubus' workplace(shouldnt have gone). SES went on, every time i hit the pedal my car started to shake--then it went away and all was fine. I think my MAF is loose because thats what happened last time, however Im too mad and tired to check at the moment.

Christ, Im happy you got those numbers. my 234 hp was the record for our cars. I have a custom tune now, so I have to get that dyno'd, after I figure out why I, and my car are such bitches at the moment

cheers mates!

/rant
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      10-21-2015, 10:23 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike. View Post
glad I can make your day--my day sucked, and my car wonked out as I was coming home from a succubus' workplace(shouldnt have gone). SES went on, every time i hit the pedal my car started to shake--then it went away and all was fine. I think my MAF is loose because thats what happened last time, however Im too mad and tired to check at the moment.
Bummer - I'm thinking our MAFs are hyper delicate. I'm running with SES and error codes pointing to the MAF and rich AFR. But haven't yet changed the MAF to see if it clears the SES because the car runs fine, other than at start up during cold idle and pressing the brake, the motor rpms surge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike. View Post
Christ, Im happy you got those numbers. my 234 hp was the record for our cars. I have a custom tune now, so I have to get that dyno'd, after I figure out why I, and my car are such bitches at the moment

cheers mates!

/rant
Well, I'm of the opinion that dynos do have value, just maybe not so much for comparing different cars on different machines. Too many variables to make any valid comparison IMO. On the other hand, I believe there is value for assessing trends on our own cars, on the same dyno, in similar extrinsic conditions. Which is a really long winded way of saying who really knows which motor has more output? I do think mine has more output than it used to, and yours has no less than before
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      10-21-2015, 10:31 AM   #16
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In line with this thread, when I installed the Rev silicone intake hose, I did a before after dyno run and I showed almost a 4 horsepwer increase with just the hose. Keep in mind I had the Dinan ram air intake and no charcoal delete at that time. And I know I will be asked, I have no before and after dyno figures for the Dinan ram air. The Dinan ram air was the first mod I did two weeks after buying the car and four months prior to joining the forum and discovering TheAxiom's obsession for dyno graphs.
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      10-21-2015, 10:39 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Droze View Post
In line with this thread, when I installed the Rev silicone intake hose, I did a before after dyno run and I showed almost a 4 horsepwer increase with just the hose. Keep in mind I had the Dinan ram air intake and no charcoal delete at that time. And I know I will be asked, I have no before and after dyno figures for the Dinan ram air. The Dinan ram air was the first mod I did two weeks after buying the car and four months prior to joining the forum and discovering TheAxiom's obsession for dyno graphs.
I think it may have been you I remembered reading, seeing 4 HP associated with the RM hose. Thanks for sharing. I was very very skeptical, but figured no harm would come from the hose, and it was too inexpensive not to try. The 4 HP was a part of the incentive to measure for myself. The silly thing really does work. That has me thinking that replacing the corrugate shop-vac hose with a smooth-walled hose may yield potentially another 4 - 5 HP, based on the longer hose length in this application.
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      10-21-2015, 10:41 AM   #18
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Ody enough, on my follow up dyno, my car lost power with the full Dinan intake and RM hose vs my previous best. ot actually was pretty much in line with the previous numbers when the power started dropping off.

I blame the FL heat and this non optimal tune.
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      10-21-2015, 01:36 PM   #19
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The fact that you did 224 on a Mustang dyno in a basically stock car (an AT 328i xDrive non the less, which loses more power) tells me something might not be as it seems.

The highest output car I know of on here is a 128i, N52 with AA headers, AA tune, and the 3 stage manifold, IIRC and that did 246 on a Dynojet, which reads 10% higher than a mustang, so the mustang numbers for that car should be around 224 hp

Are you sure that dyno isn't reading you the WHP numbers PLUS the drivetrain loss? Because that would make a lot of sense, and your numbers would seem realistic.
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      10-21-2015, 01:38 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
Ody enough, on my follow up dyno, my car lost power with the full Dinan intake and RM hose vs my previous best. ot actually was pretty much in line with the previous numbers when the power started dropping off.

I blame the FL heat and this non optimal tune.
Hmm, that's the opposite of expectations. Something else must be killing the gains from your CAI and silicon intake hose, right? If those two are good for ~ 15 HP, how much warmer would it need to be to kill that power?

Related question - at what point does a new tune become necessary? For instance, w/o a tune, the DISA manifold is pointless. Wondering if the DME is intelligent enough to adapt to the new AFR's, or would new maps be even more beneficial? hassmaschine?
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      10-21-2015, 01:41 PM   #21
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No idea why, but that's all I could come up with -it had to be pulling timing, as it was 225/205 or something like that. Whatevers.
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      10-21-2015, 01:47 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris82 View Post
The fact that you did 224 on a Mustang dyno in a basically stock car (an AT 328i xDrive non the less, which loses more power) tells me something might not be as it seems.

The highest output car I know of on here is a 128i, N52 with AA headers, AA tune, and the 3 stage manifold, IIRC and that did 246 on a Dynojet, which reads 10% higher than a mustang, so the mustang numbers for that car should be around 224 hp

Are you sure that dyno isn't reading you the WHP numbers PLUS the drivetrain loss? Because that would make a lot of sense, and your numbers would seem realistic.
was thinking the same thing, than saw the post made by Axiom in the dyno thread and he has 3stage intake manifold/headers/tune before the intake/silliocone hose run... that wasn't a stock run...
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