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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Took my AA Xede'd 335 in for service



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      05-28-2007, 09:38 AM   #1
Sleepr335
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Took my AA Xede'd 335 in for service

Took it in for its first service. Oil change and whatever else they do. I shut off the Xede via the switch in the glove box. I don't know what kind of diagnostics they run but nobody said anything to me. No problems at all.
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      05-28-2007, 10:26 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Sleepr335 View Post
Took it in for its first service. Oil change and whatever else they do. I shut off the Xede via the switch in the glove box. I don't know what kind of diagnostics they run but nobody said anything to me. No problems at all.
Do you happen to know if it it was the case that it was undetectable by them, or that they saw it, but didn't care?
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      05-28-2007, 01:27 PM   #3
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Do you happen to know if it it was the case that it was undetectable by them, or that they saw it, but didn't care?
I dont know
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      05-28-2007, 01:29 PM   #4
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the secret still remains....
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      05-28-2007, 02:22 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleepr335 View Post
Took it in for its first service. Oil change and whatever else they do. I shut off the Xede via the switch in the glove box. I don't know what kind of diagnostics they run but nobody said anything to me. No problems at all.
For an oil change, there should be no reason for them to get into the ECU, so they really wouldn't see anything whether you had the XEDE or PROcede installed. In addition, they shouldn't "see" anything abnormal (if running some sort of diagnostics) as the XEDE (or PROcede) intercepts the signals to the ECU, so they ECU thinks it's running normally. The only way they would suspect anything is if they took it for a spirited test drive (and felt the huge difference ), which they shouldn't do for just an oil/filer change, imho.
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      05-28-2007, 02:58 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by sflgator View Post
...so they ECU thinks it's running normally.
I could only see how this could be true when the piggyback signals are within normal ranges. Presumably, the piggyback only works by counting on the ECU to compensate correctly. The ECU still knows the exact parameters for boost pressure, fuel delivery rate, and timing values, for example.

However, boost spikes are a normal occurance w/out the piggyback. And presumably, the ECU routinely deals with these events appropriately w/out raising a red flag. But it is conceivable that the ECU could maintain a running average of boost level and qualify some range to be out of spec. The running average could be over several seconds, which would disqualify a spike and indicate an abnormal regulation.
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      05-28-2007, 03:19 PM   #7
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What Florida dealer/service place did u take your car in to for the oil? Mike.
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      05-28-2007, 03:23 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenmaster View Post
I could only see how this could be true when the piggyback signals are within normal ranges. Presumably, the piggyback only works by counting on the ECU to compensate correctly. The ECU still knows the exact parameters for boost pressure, fuel delivery rate, and timing values, for example.

However, boost spikes are a normal occurance w/out the piggyback. And presumably, the ECU routinely deals with these events appropriately w/out raising a red flag. But it is conceivable that the ECU could maintain a running average of boost level and qualify some range to be out of spec. The running average could be over several seconds, which would disqualify a spike and indicate an abnormal regulation.
Seriously, you should do a search for this subject; it's been discussed ad nauseum...no need to worry too much about them finding evidence of a piggyback computer, unless they physically see it or feel the difference during a test drive, and then they begin to ask questions.
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      05-28-2007, 04:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sflgator View Post
Seriously, you should do a search for this subject; it's been discussed ad nauseum...no need to worry too much about them finding evidence of a piggyback computer, unless they physically see it or feel the difference during a test drive, and then they begin to ask questions.
Sorry, not drinking that kool-aid.
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      05-28-2007, 04:16 PM   #10
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Sorry, not drinking that kool-aid.
Ask more questions before you dismiss it. I am no expert on Car based computers, but in the world of large enterprise class computing and programming I have spent a long time. I do not see why an add on computer could not intercept inputs, cause certain outputs to happen, and at the same time cause those outputs to be written to logs in normal ranges even if the actual outputs were different.
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      05-28-2007, 04:28 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenmaster View Post
But it is conceivable that the ECU could maintain a running average of boost level and qualify some range to be out of spec. The running average could be over several seconds, which would disqualify a spike and indicate an abnormal regulation.
What the ECU sees it actually lower than expected boost levels normally. Since the MAP signal is controlled, the ECU does not see the higher actual values.

That is unless an elf climbs out of the ECU form time to time, installs an Ashcroft gauge and wites down readings for later analysis.

The concerns is any adaptation values getting outside of what would be considered normal.
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      05-28-2007, 04:48 PM   #12
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What the ECU sees it actually lower than expected boost levels normally. Since the MAP signal is controlled, the ECU does not see the higher actual values.
Wouldn't that mean that the ECU's management of its systems works off of relative, rather than absolute, values?
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      05-28-2007, 05:01 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by scottp999 View Post
I do not see why an add on computer could not intercept inputs, cause certain outputs to happen, and at the same time cause those outputs to be written to logs in normal ranges even if the actual outputs were different.
Me either. The question is whether or not this is what is indeed happening. The ECU must be 100% dependent on its feedback with no notion of the types of adjustments it's making, on the source input's behalf, in order for there to be stealth. I'm not skeptical. I just haven't seen any compelling description, even after searching.
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      05-28-2007, 05:08 PM   #14
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Sorry, not drinking that kool-aid.
but its fruit-punch...
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      05-28-2007, 05:27 PM   #15
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      05-28-2007, 06:15 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Wouldn't that mean that the ECU's management of its systems works off of relative, rather than absolute, values?
Why don't you just ask Shiv, the guy who cracked the 335i ECU code and developed the maps for the original 335i XEDE and now PROcede? He knows more about this than anyone, and I'm fairly certain that he's just as smart, if not smarter than you.
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      05-28-2007, 06:16 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by sflgator View Post
Why don't you just ask Shiv, the guy who developed cracked the code and developed the maps for the original 335i XEDE and now PROcede? He knows more about this than anyone, and I'm fairly certain that he's just as smart or smarter than you.

Umm, exactly what code did he crack?
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      05-28-2007, 06:22 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenmaster View Post
Wouldn't that mean that the ECU's management of its systems works off of relative, rather than absolute, values?
Well is does work with absolute pressure but I doubt that us what ou are referring to.

To control boost it has a single signal; a pressure signal. If you moddify that signal so that the ECU sees less manifold pressure than what it wants it will adjust the boost control solenoids duty cycle signal to get to the point it wants. However, that true manifold pressure is now higher than what the ECU thinks it is but the ECU sees now what it wants.

It really is simple; you just tell the ECU there is less boost and it compensates. The caveat, and one which BMW has automatically resolved, comes in way of fueling. Thankfully we have closed loop operation even at WOT.
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      05-28-2007, 06:23 PM   #19
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Umm, exactly what code did he crack?
I think you are expected to just roll with it...
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      05-28-2007, 06:51 PM   #20
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was the aa switch hard to install? did you have to drill a hole in the glove box? any idea if the wireless solution would work on the aa xede as like the procede?
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      05-28-2007, 07:29 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hl0m4n View Post
was the aa switch hard to install? did you have to drill a hole in the glove box? any idea if the wireless solution would work on the aa xede as like the procede?
I'm pretty sure you can do the same wireless solution, as my Xede has exactly the same serial output as PROcede. With the right adaptor to that serial port you can have bluetooth wireless connection.
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      05-28-2007, 08:17 PM   #22
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how was the aa switch installed? drilling in the glove box compartment?
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