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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Differences in flashes, wedge? Ptf?



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      03-01-2015, 11:01 AM   #1
Lawton438
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Differences in flashes, wedge? Ptf?

Basically have been out of the tuning scene for awhile now, and had a quick read up this morning and it seems wedge performance or buraq is new to flashing the n54 using the cobb if I understand correctly.

My question is what differences is their to say a PTF map?

Has anyone had both maps to compare?
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      03-01-2015, 12:28 PM   #2
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I would like to know too. Can someone do a mini write up about the differences in flashes? Also with MHD now being available.
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      03-01-2015, 01:37 PM   #3
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I think the outcome somehow is the same, but the way they do it is different..
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      03-01-2015, 01:50 PM   #4
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Every car is going to be basically different in ways depending on the modifications , weather , fuel , the way the cars running , and needs . Some may want it aggressive and some may just want reliability behind it all . I think the tuners all look at the same information and adjust as needed for either added power or safety . A wedge tune was loaded to a friend of mine and he had the free bms flash befor that and it transformed his car alot not only with power but drivability . I will be installing rb turbos and vtt inlets in about a month or so (waiting for the inlets ) and will be using a wedge flash because I've heard great things about them and experienced it first hand ! ptf will most likely offer the same outcome but wedge (ken) is a awesome dude with time to work with you to get things rite and keep you smiling !
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      03-01-2015, 02:12 PM   #5
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+1 for Wedge. Very happy with my Wedge Tune so far even though I'm still not fully dialed in yet due to all of the bad weather we have had lately.
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      03-01-2015, 02:16 PM   #6
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I had the Cobb pro turned by Jake. Jake was great but never could get it dialed in right I was FBO with meth on stock turbos and my buddy with just DCI's catless downpipes with a JB4 would out run me and post better times and speeds at the track. I ran low 12.1-12.2 pro tuned on Cobb and only made high 11.9s once 4th gear always fell flat on its face and 5th was worse.

I switched to JB4 with Terry's backend flash and it was totally different for my car 11's were easy I could do high 11.8s no problem on every run with an occasional 11.7s.

Went with a Ken Wedge backend flash for the JB4 and could run 11.6's all day did it once like 6 back to back runs one evening and did my first 11.5 that night.

Went with RBs and Terrys E85 or race backend has not responded well. The one size fits all flash just has not worked for me and after many logs and emails to Terry the last I got was change the fuel scaler some, and that looks to be the best your going to get. I run faster due to the RBs but shifts and timing drops are issues the shifting part is the worst unable to go wot in 2nd cause it will shift on its onw to 3rd at like 4k rpm or it wont shift at all 4th gear to 5th is a big challenge at times with out shifting.

So a change was needed again so I went back to Ken he is doing the tuning with the MHD software and my shifting issues are fixed whatever he has done the transmission handles the power and shifts great car is very fast but we are only on revision two working on a timing drop from 3rd to 4th at the moment.

These are just my experiences I do not think you could ever really go wrong with Wedge and his flash. The JB4 performs and the backend flash is a one size fits all application that really does work well, Cobb was not the greatest for me and the least i would recommend in my experience but sopposedly Wedge and BaraQ are doing great things with that application now. A pro tune is what it is, tailored to your car and only as good as the tuner and the application used to tune it, Ken has been able to do the best for me.

And the new MHD software with its ease of use all on my phone maps sent to me via email load it up to the MHD phone app, flash it then go for a quick spin, data log, load it to datazap or send the csv to whomever via email never having to go back home and use a computer or break out a laptop for anything. Oh read codes clear codes you name all from your phone.

I will dyno soon and have track times and speeds to show results of Wedges tune and the MHD software I have all my previous dynos posted here and my numerous time slips also to compare against so the proof will be in the numbers not just a write up saying I am so much better or faster now. Just need some better weather and my dyno day.
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      03-01-2015, 03:20 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawton438 View Post
Basically have been out of the tuning scene for awhile now, and had a quick read up this morning and it seems wedge performance or buraq is new to flashing the n54 using the cobb if I understand correctly.

My question is what differences is their to say a PTF map?

Has anyone had both maps to compare?

They both add boost , change timing,afe,vanos,etc...
They will offer you a map depending on your needs ( mild maps to kill maps )
lots of reviews for both and for the most part it is good.
The major difference is that the PTF maps are locked. you cannot see what changes they made and you cannot change anything. Wedge maps are open and anyone can see what they changed.
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      03-01-2015, 03:58 PM   #8
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What's this mhd software you speak of?
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      03-01-2015, 04:15 PM   #9
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Wedge and Buraw were easier to work with than ptf.
Ptf just gave me maps without responding to what I asked for where wedge listened and delivered up to 5 revisions on one day.
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      03-01-2015, 05:12 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor001 View Post
What's this mhd software you speak of?
Look at threads started by member MHD Tuning. Very exciting stuff, I'm holding off buying a tune til I see what they're doing. Wedge and BQ have produced the tunes apparently and they will offer a premium custom wedge/bq tune.

To address the OP and a couple of other posters, here's a chart which has a lot of info...

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=374508
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      03-01-2015, 05:36 PM   #11
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The difference is they are different tuners. Why do we keep beating this to death, your not buying a damper with finite differences in design and spec'd the same off the shelf. Its like asking which graffiti artist should I get to paint a moral on the side of my building. Do your diligence researching past work, reviews and make a choice. Its only like a $200 choice so don't over think it. If you are already leaning one way go with your gut.
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      03-01-2015, 05:46 PM   #12
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😂 I'm not being funny stanlalee, but is this not what the forum is for?

You say it's only $200 this doesn't bother me what so ever. It's more the fact it's the final peice of the jigsaw and would like to know more about the differences in how they tune the car.

And to me the map is perhaps the most important part of it all.
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      03-01-2015, 05:58 PM   #13
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I am not sure if either offer a money back guarantee?

If so try both.. Would be a great experience and I am sure a lot of people in the forum would love to hear the feedback you have.

At the end of the day very few people have tried 2 of anything, and most will say what they have is the best Its just human nature. Many vendors on here also never really have tried multiple brands of the same product and some don't even own the cars so advice really needs to be taken with a grain of salt. We own an N54 but run the JB4 so I couldn't offer you any advice on which to choose except the best way is to try both. Even if you have to pay for both getting your car dialled in perfectly may be worth trying both out.

Mike
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      03-01-2015, 06:05 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawton438 View Post
�� I'm not being funny stanlalee, but is this not what the forum is for?
.
Yes it is BUT over the past few months this has turned into the latest forum tuner wars pissing match and these threads always end up being a bunch of fan boys or pointless bickering among the tuners over who is better. Over the past couple months there must be half a dozen multi page threads on this very subject. I can't take another one for a while lol.

There was one good point made: one is unlocked and uses Cobb ATR software allowing you to see and adjust the tune and one is authorized Cobb tuner using ATR "pro" and locked maps. There is really nothing to suggest at this point and time both aren't pretty good.

From past experience I take a grain of salt from people who switch. They ALWAYS tend to favor their newest option as being more satisfied justifies the money and time making changes. there was a guy on another platform that raved how his new tune was better and more powerful than his previous tune. Spend $600 on top of the $600 he spent on the old tune. He dyno'd both and even though the old tune was safer (new tune ran full WGDC, old tune 50%, new tune leaner) and made no more power (made 5whp more peak and 10wtq less) he continued to rave how much better his new tune was. tuner came in and overlayed both graphs. It looked like the same car/tune was ran twice on the dyno. NO significant difference in the graphs just the old tune was safer and not working the turbo nearly as much. To this day he thinks his new tune was a sound investment. This is typical until they move on down the road and come to their senses. Same with OFT. Same people who raved about the power suddenly couldn't stand it after moving to other tunes dyno proven not to make any more power and less tq with OTS maps.
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      03-01-2015, 09:22 PM   #15
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While we are on the topic I was wondering if someone can clear this up for me please. I run a JB4 and considering a Wedge Flash. Is everyone currently flashing their vehicles using a Bavarian Tech Cable? Or is a Cobb Access port required? Also what cable does MHD use to flash? I understand from what we know so far is we will be able to flash using our Android phones. Long story short, what cable should I buy to flash my ECU? Or should I just wait for the MHD cable/system to come out? Or will MHD use the same cable?
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      03-01-2015, 10:58 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clownaround View Post
While we are on the topic I was wondering if someone can clear this up for me please. I run a JB4 and considering a Wedge Flash. Is everyone currently flashing their vehicles using a Bavarian Tech Cable? Or is a Cobb Access port required? Also what cable does MHD use to flash? I understand from what we know so far is we will be able to flash using our Android phones. Long story short, what cable should I buy to flash my ECU? Or should I just wait for the MHD cable/system to come out? Or will MHD use the same cable?
There are 3 main ways for the end user to flash their car, 4 if you want to count OFT. The BB software uses the BT cable. Cobb uses its own proprietary cable. MHD flasher uses the inexpensive INPA cable and I believe it may have support for BT cable as well.

Cobb is obviously the most expensive route but it is very reliable. I've never had a failed flash and map changes take about 60-90 seconds for me. BB software is free and BT cables are as cheap as $179 for a single user cable. While the BB software was a great development for platform, it is buggy and unreliable. It works on some laptops and not others. Sometimes it will fail during writes, etc. You are tied to a laptop as well. MHD costs will vary depending on the modules. It will work with android devices. From what I have heard it has cured the reliability issues that we saw with BB flashes. It can also be coupled with logging software for a very nice combo package.

Hope this helps.
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      03-01-2015, 11:17 PM   #17
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Thanks for clearing that up for me. Found this K+dcan online. Looks like many differant options are available with mixed reviews...

http://www.amazon.com/KCRIUS-TM-Inte...k%2Bdcan+cable

Can I currently flash Wedge maps using this cable? Or is the BT Cable or Cobb the only way currently offered?
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      03-02-2015, 12:06 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clownaround View Post
While we are on the topic I was wondering if someone can clear this up for me please. I run a JB4 and considering a Wedge Flash. Is everyone currently flashing their vehicles using a Bavarian Tech Cable? Or is a Cobb Access port required? Also what cable does MHD use to flash? I understand from what we know so far is we will be able to flash using our Android phones. Long story short, what cable should I buy to flash my ECU? Or should I just wait for the MHD cable/system to come out? Or will MHD use the same cable?
There are 3 main ways for the end user to flash their car, 4 if you want to count OFT. The BB software uses the BT cable. Cobb uses its own proprietary cable. MHD flasher uses the inexpensive INPA cable and I believe it may have support for BT cable as well.

Cobb is obviously the most expensive route but it is very reliable. I've never had a failed flash and map changes take about 60-90 seconds for me. BB software is free and BT cables are as cheap as $179 for a single user cable. While the BB software was a great development for platform, it is buggy and unreliable. It works on some laptops and not others. Sometimes it will fail during writes, etc. You are tied to a laptop as well. MHD costs will vary depending on the modules. It will work with android devices. From what I have heard it has cured the reliability issues that we saw with BB flashes. It can also be coupled with logging software for a very nice combo package.

Hope this helps.
For what it's worth, it looks like the guys over on BB are working to improve the software!
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      03-02-2015, 12:21 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawton438 View Post
�� I'm not being funny stanlalee, but is this not what the forum is for?

You say it's only $200 this doesn't bother me what so ever. It's more the fact it's the final peice of the jigsaw and would like to know more about the differences in how they tune the car.

And to me the map is perhaps the most important part of it all.
Yes, the forum is for asking questions but very few people have tried every available tune so you are asking for something that doesn't exist. Most people get a tune and stick with it. The same applies to other upgrades as well - very few people have tried every downpipe, every intake, every FMIC, etc.

In terms of tuning techniques, it is part art and part science, so difficult to articulate the artistic aspects. Plus, I am sure the tuners don't want to reveal how they work their magic to avoid people copying or trying it on their own.

So ask all you want, but its unlikely you will find the answers you are looking for, short of trying them all yourself. And since you mention the $200 doesn't bother you and its the final piece of the puzzle, why don't you try PFT. MHD, Wedge, etc. and then let us know? After all, that is what the forum is about, isn't it?
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      03-02-2015, 09:39 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snaimpally View Post
So ask all you want, but its unlikely you will find the answers you are looking for, short of trying them all yourself. And since you mention the $200 doesn't bother you and its the final piece of the puzzle, why don't you try PFT. MHD, Wedge, etc. and then let us know? After all, that is what the forum is about, isn't it?
lol agreed.

Either way, there ARE peeps that HAVE tried both. The reviews are right there in front of you (most of which can be found on the first page of this sub-forum); you have to want to find them though. Not every piece of info can be served to you on a silver platter.
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      03-07-2015, 06:47 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
I am not sure if either offer a money back guarantee?

If so try both.. Would be a great experience and I am sure a lot of people in the forum would love to hear the feedback you have.

At the end of the day very few people have tried 2 of anything, and most will say what they have is the best Its just human nature. Many vendors on here also never really have tried multiple brands of the same product and some don't even own the cars so advice really needs to be taken with a grain of salt. We own an N54 but run the JB4 so I couldn't offer you any advice on which to choose except the best way is to try both. Even if you have to pay for both getting your car dialled in perfectly may be worth trying both out.

Mike
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      03-07-2015, 08:56 AM   #22
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I chose PTF for their experience and I've been impressed with their work and customer service. I've gone back to Dzenno a few times for log review and little tweaks I wanted to do and he turned maps around literally within hours. My friend went with Wedge and didn't like the drivability of his tune and they couldn't sort it out for whatever reason. He hasn't tried PTF yet either though and is just running with an off the shelf map and he says he's happy as long as we don't race each other HAHA! He can put up a good race against my M3 though even with the OTS map but then he cries about the V8 sound killing him LOL
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