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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N55 Turbo Engine Tuning and Exhaust Modifications - 335i Tuning > PPK1 vs Dinan Stage 2 for N55



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      02-01-2012, 11:57 PM   #1
redz06
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PPK1 vs Dinan Stage 2 for N55

OK, we have seen the rear wheel dyno results for the Dinan Stage 2 for the N55 and they don't seem to match very well with the claims. Question is, how well do they match up against the PPK1 on a $/HP or $/torque curve basis? The other question is whether Dinan is really satisfied with letting their company reputation rest on a product that delivers 1/4 of the power increase and 1/2 of the torque increase of what they are advertising.

My new 335i sedan has neither kit. While several users have verbally confirmed the benefits of the PPK1 and a few have confirmed the benefits of the Dinan2, we only have before and after rear wheel dynos of the Dinan. What has been confirmed with respect to the PPK1 benefits?

I may still be interested in installing PPK1 if it really delivers +20 HP and +17 lb-ft to the wheels for $700 if Dinan cannot do better than +12 HP and +50 lb-ft for $2000.
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      02-02-2012, 04:46 PM   #2
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I believe both claims are for net HP not RWHP.

Also I believe Dinan is stating there maximum gain over stock not there gain at peak HP. If you look at the chart it looks like about a 45 HP gain overstock at around 4500 RPM (at the rear wheel). This would be close to the 55 HP net claim. Overall there is a pretty impressive improvement over stock through the bottom and midrange.

I do not yet have a tune either so I am still deliberating also.
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      02-02-2012, 04:58 PM   #3
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dinans main claims are the torque increase..it also depends what dyno they used and whatt gas was in the in the vehicle.....93 octane adds about 10whp and 15-20 torque
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      02-02-2012, 10:17 PM   #4
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Claims vs Results

Well the peak RWHP increases from 280.5 to 292.2, less than 12 HP. At 4500 RPM the increase is from approx 240 HP to approx 270, say 30 HP. Drivetrain losses don't change much at all when you increase the throughput from 240 HP to 270 HP. Torque increase is also substantially less than advertised, like half. Maybe the price should really be $1000.


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Originally Posted by ludlow View Post
I believe both claims are for net HP not RWHP.

Also I believe Dinan is stating there maximum gain over stock not there gain at peak HP. If you look at the chart it looks like about a 45 HP gain overstock at around 4500 RPM (at the rear wheel). This would be close to the 55 HP net claim. Overall there is a pretty impressive improvement over stock through the bottom and midrange.

I do not yet have a tune either so I am still deliberating also.
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      02-02-2012, 10:31 PM   #5
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i am currently debating this same question... thanks OP.

subscribed for this debate
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      02-03-2012, 05:28 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redz06 View Post
Well the peak RWHP increases from 280.5 to 292.2, less than 12 HP. At 4500 RPM the increase is from approx 240 HP to approx 270, say 30 HP. Drivetrain losses don't change much at all when you increase the throughput from 240 HP to 270 HP. Torque increase is also substantially less than advertised, like half. Maybe the price should really be $1000.
You are corrected, I checked there website they claim peak horsepower and torque numbers for the N55

"Peak Horsepower: 355 @ 5300 RPM"
"Peak Torque: 401 @ 3500 RPM"
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      02-03-2012, 07:56 PM   #7
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Octane

I just checked back on the rear wheel dyno test, which was on a 135i and the test is confirmed to be on 93 octane, so are we to assume that the 10 rwhp and 15 - 20 ft-lb torque are already added in? I think so.

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Originally Posted by boosted335 View Post
dinans main claims are the torque increase..it also depends what dyno they used and whatt gas was in the in the vehicle.....93 octane adds about 10whp and 15-20 torque
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      02-03-2012, 08:12 PM   #8
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I may do the stage 3 Dinan in a few years, but I really need to get some new wheels first. These 17" rims with rfts are killing me.
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      02-03-2012, 08:22 PM   #9
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I had the Dinan Stage II Software Update installed at Budd's BMW in Oakville a couple of weeks ago. They are one of the biggest BMW Dealerships as well as one of Dinan's largest dealers.

I don't have a single regret. The car is radically different. I also own a 2010 M3 and it is not that but the improved performance an drive ability is significant.

Dyno's are a good reference for baseline but there are simply to many variables that alter the output measured to be of any real world use.

I did think about the BMW PPK but chose to wait and am very glad I did. Cobb, Turner and Active Autowerkes either aren't available or require you to send your ecu to them which really isn't practical.
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      02-04-2012, 12:43 AM   #10
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Good point on dyno's, D's. That said, here's mine from Dec of stock vs PPK on my E90.
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      02-04-2012, 10:04 AM   #11
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Thanks for sharing this Chrisk03.

I do not know how to interrupt this page properly so could you tell me exactly what this before and after dyno shows? To me, it looks like the PPK was well worth it. I'm I reading this right?
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      02-04-2012, 01:49 PM   #12
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I'm not an expert on dyno stuff either, but am close to two great shops in the Philly area and wanted to get this done at one of them as a before/after for the PPK and to try and learn a bit. Hopefully, someone more knowledgeable can pipe in at some point, as well, just to see what they have to say.

That said, the dotted lines (red and blue) are the stock run I had done in Nov, while the solid lines (red and blue) is the PPK run I had done about a month later in Dec. Stock run showed a peak of about 276hp and 294tq, while the PPK run showed a peak of about 269hp and 333tq. More variations in the curves for the PPK run and power looks to have fallen off more quickly, but up to about 4600rpm there is more area under the curves for PPK. The problem here was that on the PPK run, the dyno was unfortunately not re-calibrated before the run and there was no way to take the PPK out, run stock, put PPK back in, and re-run with PPK, so the hp numbers don't quite add up...actually went down with the PPK.

Others can probably chime in and say whether that just kills the whole dyno test or not, but what I was told and what seems to be confirmed is that the N55 is a pretty big "torque monster" and the torque number from the PPK run does fall about right on what BMW says for the PPK.

That said, I'm more than happy with the PPK and realize there are other options out there that could be cheaper with more hp/tq, but I wanted to stick with a warranty. The Dinan is also appealing to me, but not after getting the PPK...and the $2k price of the Dinan at this point. Good luck!
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      02-06-2012, 06:57 AM   #13
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I understand that the PPK does give you the added bonus of not having to worry about future warranty issues, but to me that graph looks awful..
Not only is the peak HP lower than stock, but it's not exactly a smooth curve and the headline torque figure looks like it's inflated by a boost spike.
On the whole it looks like a cheap flash tune IMO, which of course it isn't.

As a comparison, this is a stock vs DMS Stage 1 tune for a DCT N55 135i. This was done on a Dyno Dynamics RR set up which as many know are far from generous..

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      02-07-2012, 05:14 PM   #14
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As there seems to be much confusion and misunderstanding about the value Dinan delivers for its Stage II, I asked for a comment from them and this is what I received back:

"The numbers provided are from our DynaPack dyno. This is a very accurate system that does not use rollers but rather bolts directly to the hub, eliminating the variances introduced by tires (heat cycles, etc), how tightly the car is chained down, etc. We also replicate the equivalent of 85mph in air flow using a very large industrial fan, with variable speed.

The 401 lb-ft torque and 355 hp are the result of numerous runs for both baseline numbers and “tuned” numbers.

Dyno results will vary dramatically depending upon the equipment, fan size and a number of other factors.

We do guarantee these results under “scientific conditions”. You may want to take a look at our white paper on dyno testing as it may give you some insight as to the specifics of some of the variables discussed above and the lengths that Dinan goes to in order to reduce the impact if not the variables themselves."


As I have already stated, I am very happy with both the performance and drivability factor of this upgrade. I have an M3 that I track and the 335i is no M3 so lets not get carried away with trying to make a great car what it was never intended to be. IMO, Dinan or Cobb(if they ever come forward) are great tunes from the vantage point that they are not piggybacks.
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      03-02-2012, 08:20 PM   #15
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SO I have the PPK (factory) and am thinking about the Dinan Stage 2 - when folks say "significant" and noticeable, how so - like 328 to 335 noticeable - or this 335i seems peppy today noticeable?

Insights please?
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      03-02-2012, 09:04 PM   #16
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I can tell you PPK is not really that much different than stock, specially up top is almost identical. For $500, maybe it's worth it. But if I were to do it again, I'd probably save up for either Dinan or some other kind of flash if GIAC or others ever come out with one.
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      03-02-2012, 09:21 PM   #17
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After driving both, PPK feels like stock in S mode....
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      03-02-2012, 09:57 PM   #18
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I have PPK and it got old two weeks I got the car. I am installing Procede tomorrow, Dinan might go up to 12 psi and with prodded I ll be at 14.5 and once I add meth then it's around 16.5...
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