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      02-02-2012, 07:44 PM   #1
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Upgrading Rear Subframe Bushings --> M3

Who here has changed out their rear subframe bushings themselves? Did you make your own tool or rent one? The tool itself looks incredibly simple to make but I'm trying to determine which dimensions of it are critical. I already have the M3 bushings but I can't measure the stock ones (If there are any dimensions that matter). Any input in greatly appreciated.


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      02-02-2012, 08:43 PM   #2
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Yeah it's a simple tool, but I think renting the tool for $58 and change from HPA is far better than making one your own. Not saying it impossible to construct, but between tracking down info to build one, materials, and your "constructing the tool" time. You could have just rented the tool, and then your bushing installation-to-completion time would conclude earlier.

Unless you're the type of person who enjoys making their own tools, then disregard suggestion. hahaha

Just my lonely .02 cents on the matter
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      02-02-2012, 08:54 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumperx View Post
Yeah it's a simple tool, but I think renting the tool for $58 and change from HPA is far better than making one your own. Not saying it impossible to construct, but between tracking down info to build one, materials, and your "constructing the tool" time. You could have just rented the tool, and then your bushing installation-to-completion time would conclude earlier.

Unless you're the type of person who enjoys making their own tools, then disregard suggestion. hahaha

Just my lonely .02 cents on the matter
I can pretty much buy a steel pipe with the correct OD/ID and mill/lathe what I need to. I would gladly save $58 plus having to plan for that two week window of opportunity. My only concern is that something small is being overlooked, and when I have my subframe dropped, I'll be stuck because my tool isn't quite right because of a feature on the subframe I didn't design around.
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      02-02-2012, 11:44 PM   #4
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Cool that, if you got the tools to make your own tools, then great. Go-Man -Go
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      02-03-2012, 10:08 AM   #5
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Alex, if you can get this figured out, you might have a future revenue stream if you can make the tool for a good price. Just a thought...

P.S. I admire your ability to make this thing!
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      02-04-2012, 10:19 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumperx View Post
Yeah it's a simple tool, but I think renting the tool for $58 and change from HPA is far better than making one your own. Not saying it impossible to construct, but between tracking down info to build one, materials, and your "constructing the tool" time. You could have just rented the tool, and then your bushing installation-to-completion time would conclude earlier.

Unless you're the type of person who enjoys making their own tools, then disregard suggestion. hahaha

Just my lonely .02 cents on the matter
$58 is cheap for me, not reinventing the wheel. But if you wish, a spring compressor threaded rod w/stout washers and EMT Conduit of max thickness will do the job.

Harold was gracious to allow more than 2 weeks for my rental. May have had something to do with my $2400 parts purchase, including bushings.

To be honest, I don't see why everyone says the job's difficult. Just drop the subframe 4" and go to it....pneumatic wrench makes it go much faster. Don't forget to lubricate the threaded rod! I used an old, forgotten bottle of 20/50 motor oil. Lube ingoing bushings too - they go in easy that way - silicone, please.

Last edited by CALWATERBOY; 02-04-2012 at 10:25 AM.
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      02-07-2012, 05:42 PM   #7
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I made my own tool out of steel tubing, the beefiest Grade 10 Rod/nuts, oiled everything, and the bushing was still so tight that it broke the 5 rods getting the first bushing out. I said screw it and took the whole subframe out and pressed them out and in.

The tool HPA has must be crazy strong; I"m curious to know how is stronger than the one I made.
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      02-13-2012, 09:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
$58 is cheap for me, not reinventing the wheel. But if you wish, a spring compressor threaded rod w/stout washers and EMT Conduit of max thickness will do the job.

Harold was gracious to allow more than 2 weeks for my rental. May have had something to do with my $2400 parts purchase, including bushings.

To be honest, I don't see why everyone says the job's difficult. Just drop the subframe 4" and go to it....pneumatic wrench makes it go much faster. Don't forget to lubricate the threaded rod! I used an old, forgotten bottle of 20/50 motor oil. Lube ingoing bushings too - they go in easy that way - silicone, please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianMN View Post
I made my own tool out of steel tubing, the beefiest Grade 10 Rod/nuts, oiled everything, and the bushing was still so tight that it broke the 5 rods getting the first bushing out. I said screw it and took the whole subframe out and pressed them out and in.

The tool HPA has must be crazy strong; I"m curious to know how is stronger than the one I made.

To either of you: I understand how to make the tool remove the bushing, but how does it press it in? Also, how much space is there on the other side of the bushing, 4in? (between subframe and bottom of car)

At this point, it sounds like HPA might not have the tool available in March when I need it, so I am definitely going to make my own now, so any help with the specs would be greatly appreciated.

I'm trying to understand the exact function of each part of the tool. (It should be straight forward, really). From my understanding, only parts 2 and 3 are required for the rear subframe bushings, plus the corresponding washers and rod?





Last edited by akotten; 02-13-2012 at 09:28 PM.
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      02-13-2012, 11:09 PM   #9
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Here's pictures of the tools used:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...+bushings+tool

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't tool number 1 in your pictures the front bushing puller?
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      02-13-2012, 11:12 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExpensiveTaste View Post
Here's pictures of the tools used:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...+bushings+tool

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't tool number 1 in your pictures the front bushing puller?
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's what #1 is for too. Thanks for that link! I think that helps quite a bit.
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      02-13-2012, 11:33 PM   #11
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I guess I'll just make that cylinder and weld in a ring? I'm not sure on the dimensions though (I have the bearings to measure from)....and what size is that large washer?
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      02-13-2012, 11:54 PM   #12
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Found this helpful video. I should be able to find what I need locally now that I fully understand it. I might make 3 or 4 of these to try and help out the community.

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      02-14-2012, 12:19 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akotten View Post
To either of you: I understand how to make the tool remove the bushing, but how does it press it in?
Thick washer & nut on threaded rod.

Hey, lube the threaded rod, of course. BUT! Also butter up the ingoing bushing with silicone grease!

That eases install big time. Shucks, I managed to sieze a nut on HP Autowerks' threaded rod....scored a thinner threaded rod + nuts @ Home Depot....lubed threads....buttered bushings went right in! Whew!

Dropping subframe ~4" a must to install the forward bushings - though all come out from the bottom, forward M bushings go in from the top.

The whole job was no sweat, other than the stressed Home Depot run & learning curve.

Replaced the 'sport' sways w/M sways too. Heard the rear's a real bitch. Have no idea why anyone would say that - same dropped subframe provided scads of room and the hard part, snapping the 2 part bushings together, was easily done with quick fab of a jig. TIP: Use that silicone grease on the bushings & bushing housing too. Much easier to position on subframe.

Hey, be good to yourself - do it the easy way! Did whole suspension w/Ground Control shocks/springs and M strut brace in my garage, a very good experience. I say: Know your ride. Doing these installs a great way to do that.
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Last edited by CALWATERBOY; 02-14-2012 at 12:58 AM.
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      02-14-2012, 10:00 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akotten View Post
Who here has changed out their rear subframe bushings themselves? Did you make your own tool or rent one? The tool itself looks incredibly simple to make but I'm trying to determine which dimensions of it are critical. I already have the M3 bushings but I can't measure the stock ones (If there are any dimensions that matter). Any input in greatly appreciated.
In the first post of this thread, #19 [you'll see - scroll down], it says:

"Remove Subframe Bushings, special tool suggested which can be rented from HP Autowerks. I did not use special tool because it was not available, so I got a piece of 3.5" & 5" emt conduit and made a pc 1" and 5" tall of each. The talller pc was used to pull the bushings out and the shorter pcs were used to install. I also used a 5/8" threaded rod from a spring compressor and some large washers (2 that have smaller diameter than bushings to remove and 2 that have larger diameter than the bushings to press in) and used this with a impact to remove and press in the new bushings."
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      02-14-2012, 04:58 PM   #15
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I bought everything I need today, except the threaded rod. No one carries grade 8, and I'm not sure I'll have it by this weekend if I order from McMaster-Carr. Maybe I'll just rent a spring compressor tool from Oreilly's, since I need one anyways for the TC Kline, and use those for the threaded rod?


Edit: Just grabbed a B7 grade 6ft rod from Fastenal. I was skeptical, but it ate through a couple 18t hack saw blades just to cut it once haha.

Last edited by akotten; 02-14-2012 at 06:42 PM.
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      02-14-2012, 08:53 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akotten View Post
I bought everything I need today, except the threaded rod. No one carries grade 8, and I'm not sure I'll have it by this weekend if I order from McMaster-Carr. Maybe I'll just rent a spring compressor tool from Oreilly's, since I need one anyways for the TC Kline, and use those for the threaded rod?


Edit: Just grabbed a B7 grade 6ft rod from Fastenal. I was skeptical, but it ate through a couple 18t hack saw blades just to cut it once haha.
Use a thrust ball bearing, something like this, between the nut you want to rotate [the one you're turning] and where you're applying load:

Name:  TVL Ball Bearing [a].jpg
Views: 2523
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Goes on threaded rod, of course. Life can be so pleasant with a few simple preparations!

Last edited by CALWATERBOY; 02-14-2012 at 09:08 PM.
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      02-14-2012, 08:57 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
Use a ball bearing, something like this, on the nut you want to rotate [the one you're turning]:

Attachment 644748
In other words, place a ball bearing between nut and washer? Interesting...Wouldn't that crush the ball bearing (push out the balls), since you would be applying a force normal to the designed purpose?
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      02-14-2012, 09:11 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akotten View Post
In other words, place a ball bearing between nut and washer? Interesting...Wouldn't that crush the ball bearing (push out the balls), since you would be applying a force normal to the designed purpose?
Saw that! Changed my post above....thrust bearing's designed for load in the direction we'll be applying.

Included in HP Autowerks' bushing R&R kit - works very well.
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      02-14-2012, 09:12 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
Saw that! Changed my post above....thrust bearing's designed for load in the direction we'll be applying.
Much better. I love engineering school haha.

I get everything at Fastenal for cost since I'm a student at the local engineering college. I'll have to grab a few of these tomorrow:

http://www.fastenal.com/web/products...4126495&ucst=t


On another note. If there's interest, I may piece together a full kit to do the rear subframe bushings and attempt to offer it for less than what HPA charges to rent...or just let people borrow them if they pay for shipping. Eventually there should be enough in circulation that they can be borrowed.

Last edited by akotten; 02-14-2012 at 09:18 PM.
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      02-14-2012, 09:25 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akotten View Post
Much better. I love engineering school haha.

I get everything at Fastenal for cost since I'm a student at the local engineering college. I'll have to grab a few of these tomorrow:

http://www.fastenal.com/web/products...4126495&ucst=t


On another note. If there's interest, I may piece together a full kit to do the rear subframe bushings and attempt to offer it for less than what HPA charges to rent...or just let people borrow them if they pay for shipping. Eventually there should be enough in circulation that they can be borrowed.
Yippi ki yay! Take some pics & let us see....

Plan to post my DIY sometime in the next few weeks; might have a few tips 'n' tricks not yet posted.

One thing I know: Not much forum info on E93 - hope to help there.
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      02-14-2012, 09:39 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
Yippi ki yay! Take some pics & let us see....

Plan to post my DIY sometime in the next few weeks; might have a few tips 'n' tricks not yet posted.

One thing I know: Not much forum info on E93 - hope to help there.
I'll try to take as many pictures as possible, we need a good DIY for this. Because I was short on time, I'll be using a super beefcake steel pipe instead of a nice aluminum one. If I wasn't so busy building the racecar (FSAE), I'd make something on the CNC...like properly sized washer inserts and weld them onto the pipe.
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      02-14-2012, 09:53 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
Use a thrust ball bearing, something like this, between the nut you want to rotate [the one you're turning] and where you're applying load:

Attachment 644753

Goes on threaded rod, of course. Life can be so pleasant with a few simple preparations!
Although not pictured, a thrust bearing is included with the tool.
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