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      02-06-2012, 06:58 PM   #45
t1mmy
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If it's a 335i I'd think twice, just cause the 335i (from what I hear) is a lot of fun to drive as it is. I'd probably still get the manual just for added fun factor

328i likes to rev high, and has most of it's pep there - manual all the way
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      02-06-2012, 07:02 PM   #46
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Wow - how many manuals have I owned? Every car I owned from 1969 through 2003. I won't bore you by listing them here. But now I drive an AT. But would I rather have a manual? The thought crosses my mind all the time. It is so much fun and you feel so much more "connected" to the car. I have often thought of getting a different BMW (or Porsche) just to drive a manual again.

The only thing negative that I can remember is when you're stuck in stop and go traffic. That is a serious bummer.

Otherwise, it's great. I taught my wife to drive a manual in the early '70s and taught my son 10 years ago. He's driving a manual Mustang GT today.

I say go for it and you'll not regret it.

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      02-06-2012, 07:05 PM   #47
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There are no cons.
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      02-06-2012, 07:09 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fallintotherhyme View Post
Did you not see the irony.../facepalm



IRONY MAN what has e90 post turned into, Jesus.
E90Post has turned into Jesus?

That is ironic!

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      02-06-2012, 07:21 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fallintotherhyme
You cannot screw up driving stick. Just avoid everything in this video.

Jesus they're retarded. Anyways...
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=315507440&dealer_id=66992423&c ar_year=2008&systime=&doors=&model=335I&search_lan g=en&start_year=2008&body_style=COUPE&keywordsfyc= &keywordsrep=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&search_type =used&distance=75&min_price=1&rdm=1328573904224&dr ive=&marketZipError=false&advanced=y&fuel=&keyword s_display=&sownerid=51167445&lastBeginningStartYea r=1981&end_year=2013&showZipError=n&make2=&certifi ed=&engine=&dma=MIAMI-FT_LAUDERDALE_FL&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispse archform&body_code=2&isFlashPlugin=false&transmiss ion=&default_sort=&max_mileage=45000&color=&addres s=33060&sort_type=priceDESC&max_price=30000&make=B MW&seller_type=p&num_records=25&cardist=23&standar d=false

Any features that might be missing that i would want? Power seats/memory seats? Its leatherette not leather..
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      02-06-2012, 07:23 PM   #50
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Sorry, usually my links workout better
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      02-06-2012, 07:48 PM   #51
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if you have to ask, the answer is yes

But either way, even with an auto, the ZF6speed auto is quite good, the torque converter lock's up early and i believe in 2-6gears which takes away alot of the slop automatic transmissions are known for. Plus it upshifts pretty darn quick, and it rev matches on downshifts. I've driven my brothers auto and it's pretty fun as well, it's not a bad option with either transmission, but i obviously would seek a manual because it's my own preference.
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      02-06-2012, 08:13 PM   #52
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wow, that is some bad driving in that video
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      02-06-2012, 08:51 PM   #53
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No Cons if you enjoy it..
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      02-06-2012, 09:12 PM   #54
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I love stick and will probably never go back to Automatic for my personal car (family car might be automatic).

Manual is totally worth it in every way, especially in a performance vehicle.

It took me literally 3-4 hours to learn stick-shift, and after day 2, I never stalled again. And stalling doesn't do anything to the car... manufacturers know the car will stall and what kind of engineering would it be if you broke the car in the first week of ownership? lol... you'll be fine. Just get it =P
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      02-06-2012, 09:14 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fallintotherhyme View Post
Did you not see the irony.../facepalm



IRONY MAN what has e90 post turn into jesus. And the automatic trannys in bmws are indeed more fuel efficient btw.
True! We can walk on water here!

Also according to BMW's website the E91's fuel economy is identical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW

328i Sports Wagon

Fuel Consumption

Manual Transmission - City/Highway
18/28 mpg

Automatic Transmission - City/Highway
18/28 mpg
(This is the first time I even looked at the E91's fuel economy ratings.)
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      02-06-2012, 09:32 PM   #56
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Pros:
-good road rage conduit. When someone is driving like a moron and you want to pass them, downshifting and zooming by is a great feeling. Its not quite the same feeling in an automatic where you slam on the throttle to kick it into passing gear.

-Better mileage, and let me explain why. If you drive an automatic and you're accelerating, the transmission will decide when to upshift, ideally at the best performance. If i am on a trip where I'm trying to maximize my mpg, I will often shift very early to get into the highest gear possible(between 2000-2500rpm). If I shift at 3000-3500 for more spirited acceleration, my gas mileage drops from roughly 25-26 mixed to 18-19. DCT or paddle shifting may be equally good, but its nice to have that level of control.

-cost of repairs is cheaper assuming you don't ride the clutch all the time(note, if you get a burning smell every time you pull into your driveway, you're doing something wrong)

-Ultimately, once you get used to driving a manual, it requires no thinking and its a skill you can apply to other cars.

-No one else can drive your car

Cons:
-No one else can drive your car, so don't drive unless you're staying sober

-Occasional rough shifts from 1st to 2nd

-Gear box on e90 3-series feels a bit rubbery(doesn't click in quite as nice as a porsche or even a miata)

-Hard to fiddle with your phone, eat chinese food, and shift in traffic at the same time

-If you're the daydreaming type, make sure you don't leave your car in high gear at a stop light. Otherwise, expect to have cars honking at you after you stall.

In summary, get the manual. Not enough American's drive them and I'll be pissed when they go the way of the dodo.
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      02-06-2012, 09:52 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteFlood View Post
Not trying to scare anybody, but that is what happened. We've all made our mistakes before.
Yea but come on..to state that money shifting is a legitimate con..really?
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      02-06-2012, 10:13 PM   #58
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There are no cons to a stick. Want a slushbox buy a Buick.

BMW is one of the last manufacturers to make an AWD stick.
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      02-06-2012, 10:53 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digtlartst View Post
There are no cons to a stick. Want a slushbox buy a Buick.

BMW is one of the last manufacturers to make an AWD stick.
God. Act like your a dam race car driver.

First of all, Clutches wear out. Increasing power, means your clutch might not be able to handle it or just shred it.a clutch can be burnt out in a a day or two with the wrong driver.

Stalling, Money Shifts, Clutch jobs are not quick maintenance and do require hours(2+) of labor let alone the price of a clutch.

very harsh on your clutch and transmission when driven hard(Power Shifting). Riding the clutch happens often.

lift off when shifting gears(unless NLS) Auto has almost no loss in momentum.

traffic? being cheap with your car and not letting your friends drive... or wife?

The Zf transmission shifts fairly quick and is accurate, Though you dont have full car control and it will shift for you at redline(safe but not fun). You can chose your gear and utilize all the low down torque!
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      02-06-2012, 11:46 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idrift4wd View Post
God. Act like your a dam race car driver.

First of all, Clutches wear out. Increasing power, means your clutch might not be able to handle it or just shred it.a clutch can be burnt out in a a day or two with the wrong driver.

Stalling, Money Shifts, Clutch jobs are not quick maintenance and do require hours(2+) of labor let alone the price of a clutch.

very harsh on your clutch and transmission when driven hard(Power Shifting). Riding the clutch happens often.

lift off when shifting gears(unless NLS) Auto has almost no loss in momentum.

traffic? being cheap with your car and not letting your friends drive... or wife?

The Zf transmission shifts fairly quick and is accurate, Though you dont have full car control and it will shift for you at redline(safe but not fun). You can chose your gear and utilize all the low down torque!

Me a race car driver? Nah. Got me a wimpy 215hp wagon fer krissakes. But I do enjoy feeling the drive train from the clutch pedal to the rubber on the road. Love to pull back into second gear in with my hand. Slushbox puts so much slush between the driver and the engine, like a rubber band. IMO.

I don't drive hard, I don't abuse my clutch, I don't slip it I know where the revs are and drop it right in, it'll last as long as I want it to and a lot longer than a slushbox; I enjoy engine braking. I don't spin tires. I like the awd to grab at every wheel when powering up a winding hill with that ideal smooth straight six. I don't need to be launched. I'm not a racer.

No hydraulic gear-hunting computer straining to make up its peabrained mind (shift now? not yet. Now? maybe... let off the gas sliggghtly -- oops NOW! ugh no that was wrong not quite now).

Clutching in traffic is second nature to me; done it all my life; zero effort, don't even think about it. A bit like riding my R1200RT but with four wheels and three times more cylinders. Well maybe not. Riding is very different than driving.

Some like to kick back in the driver's seat like it's a Lazy Boy and watch their iDrive video games and chitchat on their BT phone. I like to open the sunroof in the winter and drive with both hands and both feet.

To each is own. It's just better to drive the car yourself.
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      02-07-2012, 12:10 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shapptastic View Post
Pros:
-good road rage conduit. When someone is driving like a moron and you want to pass them, downshifting and zooming by is a great feeling. Its not quite the same feeling in an automatic where you slam on the throttle to kick it into passing gear.

-Better mileage, and let me explain why. If you drive an automatic and you're accelerating, the transmission will decide when to upshift, ideally at the best performance. If i am on a trip where I'm trying to maximize my mpg, I will often shift very early to get into the highest gear possible(between 2000-2500rpm). If I shift at 3000-3500 for more spirited acceleration, my gas mileage drops from roughly 25-26 mixed to 18-19. DCT or paddle shifting may be equally good, but its nice to have that level of control.

-cost of repairs is cheaper assuming you don't ride the clutch all the time(note, if you get a burning smell every time you pull into your driveway, you're doing something wrong)

-Ultimately, once you get used to driving a manual, it requires no thinking and its a skill you can apply to other cars.

-No one else can drive your car

Cons:
-No one else can drive your car, so don't drive unless you're staying sober

-Occasional rough shifts from 1st to 2nd

-Gear box on e90 3-series feels a bit rubbery(doesn't click in quite as nice as a porsche or even a miata)


-Hard to fiddle with your phone, eat chinese food, and shift in traffic at the same time

-If you're the daydreaming type, make sure you don't leave your car in high gear at a stop light. Otherwise, expect to have cars honking at you after you stall.

In summary, get the manual. Not enough American's drive them and I'll be pissed when they go the way of the dodo.
Rough 1-2 shifts in our cars can be related to the CDV. Do the delete, or the mod if under warranty.

Our gearboxes are sort of notchy. Changing the transmission fluid at regular intervals helps a lot. If you are nearing the end of the fluid life cycle Reverse maybe hard to engage on cold mornings.

Those 2 things should not change your decision at all, it's just the way our cars are.
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      02-07-2012, 12:15 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idrift4wd View Post
God. Act like your a dam race car driver.

First of all, Clutches wear out. Increasing power, means your clutch might not be able to handle it or just shred it.a clutch can be burnt out in a a day or two with the wrong driver.

Stalling, Money Shifts, Clutch jobs are not quick maintenance and do require hours(2+) of labor let alone the price of a clutch.

very harsh on your clutch and transmission when driven hard(Power Shifting). Riding the clutch happens often.

lift off when shifting gears(unless NLS) Auto has almost no loss in momentum.

traffic? being cheap with your car and not letting your friends drive... or wife?

The Zf transmission shifts fairly quick and is accurate, Though you dont have full car control and it will shift for you at redline(safe but not fun). You can chose your gear and utilize all the low down torque!
You act like you were forced to buy an automatic. Or maybe you don't know how to drive one so you stayed with a slushbox? Last time I checked its a lot cheaper to replace A clutch then a transmission.
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      02-07-2012, 12:19 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idrift4wd View Post
God. Act like your a dam race car driver.

First of all, Clutches wear out. Increasing power, means your clutch might not be able to handle it or just shred it.a clutch can be burnt out in a a day or two with the wrong driver.

Stalling, Money Shifts, Clutch jobs are not quick maintenance and do require hours(2+) of labor let alone the price of a clutch.

very harsh on your clutch and transmission when driven hard(Power Shifting). Riding the clutch happens often.

lift off when shifting gears(unless NLS) Auto has almost no loss in momentum.

traffic? being cheap with your car and not letting your friends drive... or wife?

The Zf transmission shifts fairly quick and is accurate, Though you dont have full car control and it will shift for you at redline(safe but not fun). You can chose your gear and utilize all the low down torque!
a lot of those "cons" to manual are just driver error or just straight up abuse and shouldnt even be a deciding factor for any normal/sane driver.

cons to automatic:
can overheat if you brake torque too long
can grenade itself if you neutral drop
will break if you have too much power
automatics cost several thousands of dollars to replace if they fail

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      02-07-2012, 08:05 AM   #64
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I knew that there were a lot of people who do not know how to drive a manual transmission, What is surprising is how many apparently don't know how to drive an automatic.

Some self proclaimed "purists" are carrying on as if the ZF automatic transmission in a 335i is the same as the 2 speed powerglide in a 62 Chevy Biscayne. The BMW AT has about as much in common with that "slushbox" as the 6 speed BMW manual has in common with the "Three on the Tree" manual with no syncho in 1st gear of the same era.

The torque converter on the ZF is only used for smooth starts and is locked up and out of the picture once the car is going a few miles per hour. In manual mode the drive has control over gear selection and the trasmission will only overide if a shift is attempted that will overrev of lug the engine. In manual mode the transmission shifts very quickly and it will rev match a downshift.

As for some of the so called "downsides"

1. You can "money shift" an MT
2. You will have to replace an AT and it will be expensive
3. An AT will overheat

How likely are any of those things to happen?

As for driving a MT in traffic, that is something you have to decide for yourself. I drove MTs in NYC traffic for years and it never bothered me. My current NYC car (335i) is an AT and I don't miss having an MT at all but I would have no problem going back to one.

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      02-07-2012, 08:43 AM   #65
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Get whichever one makes you happy. A lot of people who have never driven manuals get excited at the opportunity to do so, or at the very least, own one manual car in your lifetime so that you have that experience.

I've been a manual driver my whole life and this my first AT. It's so much more precise always having two hands on the wheel and shifting is quicker via paddles. Next up will be a DCT. It's 2012, I can't go back to manual, it feels archaic.
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      02-07-2012, 09:43 AM   #66
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I drove sticks for the 1st 20 years, automatics the next 20 years and sticks the last 5 years. I'm enjoying driving a stick more than ever and I'm old. If I hadn't driven sticks in rental cars in Europe, I wouldn't have rediscovered how much I enjoy them.

As CA said, the 6AT in E9x's are much better than the AT's of the past. The 6AT in the 335i is especially good. It's also true that the 6MT in E9x's are much better than the old 3 speed column shifters I learned on.

What it boils down to is: "Do you enjoy shifting a manual gearbox?" If so, I'd get my hands on a beater, learn on that and then fully enjoy your new 6MT.
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