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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > AUDIO/VIDEO + BLUETOOTH + Electronics/Alarm/Software > CONFIRMED. E9x will get the new 825W sound system option in 08 models



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      06-18-2007, 04:52 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyGams View Post
well who knows if this 825 watts peak or RMS...
I have yet to hear ANY OEM who uses RMS figures. I'm fairly certain that when you open up the amp, you will see a power supply that might be able to run a low-grade blow dryer.

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Originally Posted by ScottyGams View Post
Ever since high end car manufacturers introduced fiber optic systems (thus rendering aftermarket solutions useless)
Really?

Most audiophiles will agree that vinyl playback - records - is capable of truly great sound quality.

Well, all records are EQd when they're made, and de-EQd when they're played.

Fiber Optic systems simply require the OEM amp to be used as an external D/A converter.

Take the analog output of the HU and use some EQ means to de-EQ the signal.

Then for max stereo performance, delete the rears and any center channel.

When this approach is correctly executed, it works VERY well.

At some point I expect to see MOST gateways with analog outputs, but in the meantime, since truly impressive performance is possible without them, I don't think us aftermarket guys are "useless". Some of us are ignorant, but not all of us.
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      06-18-2007, 06:39 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by avincar View Post
I have yet to hear ANY OEM who uses RMS figures. I'm fairly certain that when you open up the amp, you will see a power supply that might be able to run a low-grade blow dryer.



Really?

Most audiophiles will agree that vinyl playback - records - is capable of truly great sound quality.

Well, all records are EQd when they're made, and de-EQd when they're played.

Fiber Optic systems simply require the OEM amp to be used as an external D/A converter.

Take the analog output of the HU and use some EQ means to de-EQ the signal.

Then for max stereo performance, delete the rears and any center channel.

When this approach is correctly executed, it works VERY well.

At some point I expect to see MOST gateways with analog outputs, but in the meantime, since truly impressive performance is possible without them, I don't think us aftermarket guys are "useless". Some of us are ignorant, but not all of us.
Since you are in the aftermarket, what is your opinion of Eton drivers? Are they comparable to SEAS or Vifa? The only weak link I see is the Lear amp,but digital amps are a dime a dozen and even the aftermarket is moving that direction.

I agree the sound quality in competitor cars has driven sort of a arms race when it comes to car audio to the benefit of the consumer.
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      06-18-2007, 07:07 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avincar View Post
I have yet to hear ANY OEM who uses RMS figures. I'm fairly certain that when you open up the amp, you will see a power supply that might be able to run a low-grade blow dryer.
Yeah, like I said... Lexus uses RMS figures... Check out Edmunds.com 10 best audio systems in cars over $30000, or check out MarkLevinsonLexus.com

I am guessing BMW is listing peak, but can you blame me for praying for a 3000+ peak system... hahaha, that would be silly... BUT AWESOME!

Quote:
Really?

Most audiophiles will agree that vinyl playback - records - is capable of truly great sound quality.

Well, all records are EQd when they're made, and de-EQd when they're played.

Fiber Optic systems simply require the OEM amp to be used as an external D/A converter.

Take the analog output of the HU and use some EQ means to de-EQ the signal.

Then for max stereo performance, delete the rears and any center channel.

When this approach is correctly executed, it works VERY well.

At some point I expect to see MOST gateways with analog outputs, but in the meantime, since truly impressive performance is possible without them, I don't think us aftermarket guys are "useless". Some of us are ignorant, but not all of us.
No, there must be some sort of confusion. I am not referring to sound quality on this one. I don't know if you have ever modified a car with a fiber optic system, but many things are wired into the same system now. Being a professional installer, I am sure you have had to deal with these roadblocks. Fiber Optic Audio systems are a pain in the ass! Nevermind if they sound good! For instance, If you replace any electronics in the car (head unit for instance) you cannot get your car serviced as the dealership. Your HUD will display wrong information. In some cases, your car won't start. I know the analog vs. digital arguement, and that is for another thread. I am sure you know more about that than me. All I am doing is hoping for the best with this option.
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      06-18-2007, 08:16 PM   #48
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Oh, so you meant that aftermarket HEAD UNITS are useless to people with a fiber optic car.

I quit installing HUs in 2005. I do almost 100% OEM integration now. I do ZERO SQ competition cars, I do only consume drivers with good, invisible, OEM-look sound.

But I have toyed with the idea of using the Pioneer XDV-P6 DVD DIN changer with Toslink out, into a Zapco DSP-6 with a DRC, and take the OEM system output into the analog input of the DSP6 and the CDC would be the SQ source. Haven't done one yet though.

I've done E60s, E90s, as well as quasi-Bangle E83 X3s and pre-bangle E39s and E53s with DSP removal. I've also done G35, TSX, MX-5, and even the Honda Fit with OEM HU integration.

But I don't take out HUs...

It does look like I was wrong, and the "Premium Surround" systems in Lexus do rate their amps at average power at 20-20k, with 0.1% THD. This is not a great THD figure but THD is overrated in importance, so what the heck.

Of course, I'd still like to measure the voltage.
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      06-18-2007, 09:10 PM   #49
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like i said, you know much more than i

Lexus is the ONLY ones to do that, and I don't think BMW is joining the club with their 825 w endeavor.

thank you for not knocking me off my soapbox!


*you did OEM in a Fit? Drop a Pioneer AVIC in there and call it a day!*
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      06-19-2007, 08:11 AM   #50
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Any chance this system will sound anywhere near as good as a quality aftermarket system? In my experience, "high end" OEM systems still use cheap paper drivers and sound like crap. But then again, I've never heard a high-end system from Lexus, Mercedes, etc.

I doubt that an OEM will ever give us truly hard-hitting bass, but hopefully they can deliver something respectable for the rest of the audio spectrum.
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      06-19-2007, 08:30 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtmccabe View Post
Any chance this system will sound anywhere near as good as a quality aftermarket system? In my experience, "high end" OEM systems still use cheap paper drivers and sound like crap. But then again, I've never heard a high-end system from Lexus, Mercedes, etc.

I doubt that an OEM will ever give us truly hard-hitting bass, but hopefully they can deliver something respectable for the rest of the audio spectrum.
Go down to your local VW store and check out the Dynaudio setup in the Passat. Stereo only rig but with true Dynaudio drivers and EQ'd by them.

The Panasonic/Alpine/Dynaudio setup in the Volvo S80 will rival and surpass many aftermarket setups except in the bass. Most OEMs will not deliver the bass that a good aftermarket setup will because of weight and size issues from the manufacturer.

I am always amazed how people spend thousands on aftermarket setups that are far from accurate. I have heard many. Then complain about OEM systems that are closer to being accurate in the highs and mids. To each his own.
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      06-19-2007, 08:34 AM   #52
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Back to the subject at hand,kudos to BMW for increasing the sound quality of their systems. Though the track they are taking is a bit unusual (no branded system,sourcing high quality drivers independently,using a new and unique DSP system), I look forward to hearing it.
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      06-19-2007, 09:45 AM   #53
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Oh, the aftermarket exists at the size that it does due to consumer demand for loud, inaccurate systems, and from a personnel POV, it's largely unable to deliver anything else.

At the same time, the aftermarket can deliver far more accurate sound that the factory. You just have to be working with the right people.

"Aftermarket" and "factory" are generalizations. There is a broad spread of quality available in the aftermarket. Most aftermarket installers shouldn't be working on a BMW. But some should.

The Passat does not have "true" Dynaudio drivers. They were specially designed by Dyn to meet a price point for VW, and are different than the units they sell in other channels. I would say that it has poor dynamics, not just bass, but it's pretty good for factory.

The Volvo does have real Dynaudio drivers, and is lacking on power only.

And paper speakers don't sound bad unless they're bad speakers. Paper doesn't last a long time in a car, depending on the location, but there's no inherent poor sound to paper. Unlike many poly materials, it sounds the same in hot weather. (Probably why BMW is experimenting with metal).
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      06-19-2007, 09:47 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by wgerman View Post

I am always amazed how people spend thousands on aftermarket setups that are far from accurate. I have heard many. Then complain about OEM systems that are closer to being accurate in the highs and mids. To each his own.
Yeah, I wish I could get more of those people. Our average system is $1800, we go from $1500 to $2500 most of the time and top out at $4K or so.

I would suggest that if you're accurate in the mids and highs (I dispute the mid part, but anyway) and you aren't in the bass region (300 and down), then overall you are inaccurate due to a spectral tilt.
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      06-19-2007, 10:20 AM   #55
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Avincar what is your opinion on the Eton drivers that BMW has chosen? The Hexacone looks alot like Kelvar.
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      06-19-2007, 12:04 PM   #56
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Guys quick question:
If I ordered an '08 already, would I have to call my Sales Rep and ask him to add it on, or does it come by default when you order the Premuim Package?

Thanks in advance for any help guys!
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      06-20-2007, 12:34 AM   #57
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Quote:
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Avincar what is your opinion on the Eton drivers that BMW has chosen? The Hexacone looks alot like Kelvar.
I think that it's a mistake to judge a system that way. If you examine the components of the DSP system in an E39 or an E54, you would think it would sound far better than it does. The metal-cone drivers in the Logic 7 in the E60 seem as if they would sound far better than they do.

Eton makes some very good home drivers.
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      06-20-2007, 08:24 AM   #58
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True,it will only sound as good as the BMW accountants allow. The metal drivers from HK are shared across the line between ML,Infinity and JBL branded systems,so really no big whoop. But using high quality drivers and DSP ( I have big question on Lear oem amp sound quality) it should rival the better OEM sound systems out there.
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      06-22-2007, 01:06 PM   #59
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Weight? Our bimmers are bloated hogs already....
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      06-24-2007, 03:24 PM   #60
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so what are the chances of Logic7 becoming standard then across the board?
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      06-24-2007, 06:22 PM   #61
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same chances that the electronic shifter goes across the board...

high... almost a given to standardize parts
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      06-24-2007, 07:01 PM   #62
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Quote:
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high... almost a given to standardize parts
Minimal. The E90 goes to other countries without amplifiers at ALL. I doubt that BMW would use the more expensive L7 across the board.
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      07-10-2007, 08:17 AM   #63
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http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/sho...dividual+audio

Some new info on DIRAC from another site..............though it talks about the system in the 5 series.
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      07-10-2007, 09:24 AM   #64
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So, they're actually putting such high-end system to 3-er?
Is it going to be exactly the same ?
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      07-10-2007, 07:17 PM   #65
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thats the idea
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      08-14-2007, 11:56 AM   #66
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Any update? September's just a few weeks away!
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