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      02-21-2012, 09:01 PM   #23
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I'll give BMW the benefit of the doubt and assumed they learned their lesson with Range Rover, so if this is in fact true, I'm sure BMW has carefully planned this potential acqusition out. They struck a goldmine with MINI, there's no reason BMW can't do the same with Saab though it might be a bit more difficult - interesting to see ideas BMW has.
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      02-21-2012, 09:23 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E30M3Driver View Post
Wow, does no one remember what happened with Rover????
Yeah, the MINI marque was born, and LR actually became a better company by not being run by Rover Group... The rest of the line that Rover owned was crap.

This could get Saab back on track to be what its supposed to be (mid-level luxury, quirky). Of all marques, Saab has one of the highest customer loyalties. If BMW can make it work, then good. If not, then it will die and some of us can remember the fun we had with them.
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      02-21-2012, 09:26 PM   #25
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Unless they are getting something that doesn't meet the eye in terms of technology, patents, or manufacturing facilities, I can't see what's in it for BMW.

While innovative in it early years, that can no longer be said for modern SAAB. Under-investment led to stagnation in both technology and design. The new models have potential as a platform, but let's face it, buying a SAAB even before bankruptcy made little sense to the general car market. Unless you were a SAAB enthusiast, why would you buy a SAAB and take the massive hit on depreciation such a decision entailed? And I know the "quirky" design of SAAB had a loyal fan base, but it was a very narrow one.

BMW ought to consider its experience with Rover versus Mini. In Mini, they bought a cherished brand and through investment and innovation, created a product they could not sell with a roundel on it that was wildly successful. In other words, the brand allowed BMW entry into a new market it could not easily access through its own brand. Rover, on the other hand, were cars that occupied similar market space, but had no technology, manufacturing, or business common sense. The result was an unmitigated disaster. To me, SAAB looks a lot more like Rover than it does Mini. Even if SAAB's engineers did have a few tricks up their sleeves, wouldn't the best and brightest have already moved on given the disaster this company has been for the past few years?

I just hope they are buying it for reason other than to attempt to invigorate the SAAB brand of automobiles; I just can't see that working out, but time will tell!
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      02-21-2012, 09:30 PM   #26
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Interesting, seems like it could be a good move.

BMW could get back in the Airplane business lol
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      02-21-2012, 09:35 PM   #27
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      02-21-2012, 09:37 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E30M3Driver View Post
Wow, does no one remember what happened with Rover????


...They only did it for one reason, to learn how to make SUV's, hence the X5.
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      02-21-2012, 10:03 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E30M3Driver View Post
Wow, does no one remember what happened with Rover????
This is completely different from Rover. BMW was looking to expand and thought they could simply restart Rover, throw some money at it and start making some cash. They didn't anticipate how Rover factories and management were in total disarray.

Saab is filled with engineers, builders and designers - coupled with a Scandinavian work ethic with an almost OCD level for perfection that seems to complement the nature of German engineering and business management quite nicely.

On top of that, before the company completely collapsed, Saab released the Phoenix concept filled with technologies aptly named the Phoenix technologies. The Chinese want it BAD, in particular YoungMan. If BMW does buy Saab, I suspect it's for this portfolio of technologies. The factory, its workers and supply lines are a totally separate issue but there's a lot of know how in Trollhattan that I would rather see in the hands of BMW than anyone else.

A new Saab 9-1 with quirky styling powered by a Bavarian turbo?
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      02-21-2012, 10:46 PM   #30
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Let's hope china loses any bidding efforts.
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      02-21-2012, 10:58 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tranism
Quote:
Originally Posted by E30M3Driver View Post
Wow, does no one remember what happened with Rover????
This is completely different from Rover. BMW was looking to expand and thought they could simply restart Rover, throw some money at it and start making some cash. They didn't anticipate how Rover factories and management were in total disarray.

Saab is filled with engineers, builders and designers - coupled with a Scandinavian work ethic with an almost OCD level for perfection that seems to complement the nature of German engineering and business management quite nicely.

On top of that, before the company completely collapsed, Saab released the Phoenix concept filled with technologies aptly named the Phoenix technologies. The Chinese want it BAD, in particular YoungMan. If BMW does buy Saab, I suspect it's for this portfolio of technologies. The factory, its workers and supply lines are a totally separate issue but there's a lot of know how in Trollhattan that I would rather see in the hands of BMW than anyone else.

A new Saab 9-1 with quirky styling powered by a Bavarian turbo?
Agreed... I'm sure BMW have put in extensive thought before bidding... Either way, isn't it exciting to find out?!
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      02-21-2012, 11:08 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DDS2015 View Post
Well, I doubt that all of these companies would be bidding on SAAB if it wasn't worth saving. They need a huge multi-national company to take them over to make things profitable again. SAAB has some really nice designs and great heritage (similar to BMWs in that they started in the aviation industry, could be wrong on that one though). It is definitely a company worth saving. I just hope that if BMW does indeed take them over that they aren't going to spread themselves too thin.
But what exactly about Saab is worth saving in the first place? They always had that somewhat quirky image that appeals to certain niche buyers, but its' appeal is pretty limited in the more general auto market. Nor does Saab today offer anything really outstanding or must-have in terms of technology, innovation or overall product line-up. So what really is there that is worth saving?

Scand. engineers and designers? BMW is doing just fine with German engineers and international designers. I don't see how Saab engineers or designers can add value to BMW.

I can understand the Chinese wanting it, they are desperately trying to break into the global market, yet their automakers lag in technology and reliability. But for a leading brand like BMW, I don't see what is there for them to get from Saab.

Last edited by JohnMan; 02-21-2012 at 11:26 PM.
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      02-21-2012, 11:13 PM   #33
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This could make Saab relevant for the first time in what.....20 years almost?
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      02-21-2012, 11:30 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbryce
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Matthew
I support anything that keeps BMW badges from gracing the bodywork of FWD vehicles...
+11111111
+100000000 as well
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      02-21-2012, 11:56 PM   #35
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Its a shame what GM did to Saab (or what Ford did to Volvo)
My dad used to have a Saab 9000 in the late 80s
Damn well built car, owned it for 4 years, nothing broke on that car.
I recall a time when Saab was compared to BMW and MB and Audi
Then the American bean counters bought them, and treated them like the bucks, pontiacs etc
I,e a single model with some different tail lights and call it a different name
And spent very little on research or development
I hope BMW saves them and they make a comeback
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      02-22-2012, 12:20 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtuds View Post
This could make Saab relevant for the first time in what.....20 years almost?
This. If they were in fact relevant competitors to the MB/Audi/BMW market at any point in time, BMW could apply what is working for them to the different Saab models and establish themselves further yet. I have a feeling there's sound purpose behind it if they bid, as others have said
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      02-22-2012, 12:47 AM   #37
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It will come down to the fine print. What ruined Spyker was the limits placed on what they could do with SAAB in the first few years. For example, no factory modification product line. Had to continue selling the GM vehicles with there shit GM and Subaru parts. If BMW can get SAAB with no restrictions they could really make it work. SAABs were great cars before GM and they did it with FWD, could be a great way to NOT make any FWD BMWs but still get into the FWD markets.
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      02-22-2012, 03:15 AM   #38
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Mini is FWD and has no problems negotiating corners.
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      02-22-2012, 03:23 AM   #39
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This would be a good point for BMW.
With SAAB they would compete with VW (here is a large FWD market) and they will battle against Audi.
Other than that I don t see another reason to buy this manufacturer.
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      02-22-2012, 03:41 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taipei-TT View Post
Unless they are getting something that doesn't meet the eye in terms of technology, patents, or manufacturing facilities, I can't see what's in it for BMW.

While innovative in it early years, that can no longer be said for modern SAAB. Under-investment led to stagnation in both technology and design. The new models have potential as a platform, but let's face it, buying a SAAB even before bankruptcy made little sense to the general car market. Unless you were a SAAB enthusiast, why would you buy a SAAB and take the massive hit on depreciation such a decision entailed? And I know the "quirky" design of SAAB had a loyal fan base, but it was a very narrow one.

BMW ought to consider its experience with Rover versus Mini. In Mini, they bought a cherished brand and through investment and innovation, created a product they could not sell with a roundel on it that was wildly successful. In other words, the brand allowed BMW entry into a new market it could not easily access through its own brand. Rover, on the other hand, were cars that occupied similar market space, but had no technology, manufacturing, or business common sense. The result was an unmitigated disaster. To me, SAAB looks a lot more like Rover than it does Mini. Even if SAAB's engineers did have a few tricks up their sleeves, wouldn't the best and brightest have already moved on given the disaster this company has been for the past few years?

I just hope they are buying it for reason other than to attempt to invigorate the SAAB brand of automobiles; I just can't see that working out, but time will tell!
Well said Sir!
This actually makes me really worried for BMW's future. Please people don't mix SAAB as a car brand with Jet fighter's. the SAAB planes are made by a conglomerate jointly owned by SAAB Aircraft and BAE. We have to remember that SAAB as a car brand has just ocasionally been in the black for the last 20 years or so.
It's easy to blame GM for what has happened to SAAB and I will admit that they did not manage the brand well, but the truth is; had it not been for GM, SAAB had gone bankrupt 15 years ago. The reason for this is simple because unlike MINI SAAB has failed to produce any products that anyone other than a select few want to buy.
I for one hope BMW looses out on this one. They would be better off.
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      02-22-2012, 09:30 AM   #41
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+11111111
Whoa, that is a lot of internets!
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      02-22-2012, 09:37 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by ///Matthew View Post
I support anything that keeps BMW badges from gracing the bodywork of FWD vehicles...
+1
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      02-22-2012, 09:59 AM   #43
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whatever it is. they won't be as fcuked up as GM
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      02-22-2012, 10:01 AM   #44
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