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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > **627WHP@22.5psi** Vishnu/FFTEC Single Turbo System Dyno Session #3 (PROcede Tuned)



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      02-22-2012, 12:04 PM   #89
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Jesus frikkin Christ! The potential of this platform is phenomenal! Great work team Vishnu! From the last dyno comparison with the stock I see that its actually not that bad on lower RPM so the daily driver ability wont be affected as much.
I am really actually curious to see if this will fit the E89 Z4 N54... I dont see why not... The engine compartment might actually be more spacious on the Z.
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      02-22-2012, 12:11 PM   #90
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Also, I don't have the run files for my 518whp MAX AGGRESSIVE TUNE (race gas+meth@21psi) FBO+ASR turbo runs. But looking at the dyno graphs, the fare more conservatively-tuned single is making 130WHP MORE POWER at 6800RPM. And my old ASR twin set-up made the most top end power of any other RB/ASR turbo dyno I've seen posted. That should give you guys a good idea of how hard this car pulls to redline.
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      02-22-2012, 12:12 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Constant.S View Post
Jesus frikkin Christ! The potential of this platform is phenomenal! Great work team Vishnu! From the last dyno comparison with the stock I see that its actually not that bad on lower RPM so the daily driver ability wont be affected as much.
I am really actually curious to see if this will fit the E89 Z4 N54... I dont see why not... The engine compartment might actually be more spacious on the Z.
The main components I am sure will no problem the downpipe will have to be redone to work though. If he does the downpipes change I might just hold onto my z
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      02-22-2012, 12:22 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by sA x sKy View Post
I really hope you're not messing with my head.
this is what I read, dont take my word 100% tho haha
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      02-22-2012, 12:22 PM   #93
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Amazing Work Shiv, You by far exceeded expectations!


p.s. For those questioning Shiv with stupid questions please slap yourselves and stop the doubt fools.
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      02-22-2012, 12:25 PM   #94
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well hot damn!

that thing boogies, IMPRESSIVE power being made here.
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      02-22-2012, 12:31 PM   #95
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Awesome! At 22 psi you're finally on the compressor map! If you can get past the stock map sensor limit there's even more power to be had assuming you have enough fuel.
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      02-22-2012, 12:35 PM   #96
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This is making me anxious.
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      02-22-2012, 12:44 PM   #97
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Incredible.
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      02-22-2012, 12:46 PM   #98
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Legitimate question, is there any sign of turbo lag?
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      02-22-2012, 12:46 PM   #99
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The HP is good but that torque still amazes me even more.
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      02-22-2012, 12:46 PM   #100
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Dear lord that is some serious power!
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      02-22-2012, 12:48 PM   #101
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FYI Shiv i have been a die hard JB user for over 3 years now, I have been here since the " 330 whp was awesome" days.


You have just sold me not only on your companies capabilities but also on the PROcede.
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      02-22-2012, 12:49 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeper View Post
I'd like to see a retune and the resulting graph where boost is ramped up normally, ie. as quick as possible. I understand the reasoning behind ramping it up like a NA engine (drivetrain protection), but to me, that's not the point of a big turbo. By nature, the bigger turbo should hit full spool much later than the little twins, but still come on hard enough that you get rocked into the back of your seat. That's a high WTQ/WHP big turbo experience for me... not a slow gradual increase where peak boost hits at 6500 RPM.

If snapping axles or destroying tranny gears is the concern, then I'd say this size turbo isn't optimal for the car as a whole, despite the N54 being able to manage it without issue.
Boost is being ramped up quickly as possible. On the dyno, the turbo builds full boost by ~3900-4000rpm. On the street, it spools up at 3700-3800rpm. Above that, it can run whatever boost we want. In this case, we are limiting boost target at 4000rpm to just 16.5psi. Ramping it up linearly until 22.5psi at 6800rpm. That has nothing to do with spool-up. But rather intentional boost control tuning. It would only take a few key strokes to have it hit 22.5psi at ~4000rpm and hold it flat to redline. This would give the car heaps more midrange torque (~550+lbft) and make the car hell of a lot quicker despite making the same peak hp. But this extra pull will come at the expense of octane sensitivity and driveline stress. That kind of tune would be best left for running MS109 race gas with methanol. Also, my particular turbo doesn't have the new billet turbine wheel that the new turbos will have. So customers can expect this "middle sized" turbo to spool up another 200-300rpm quicker. I'll be testing the new turbo soon

The goal for now was to make a street-able, daily drivable tune (pump+meth) that makes gobs of power without needing race gas or an annoying metallic race clutch for long term use. Yes, we are leaving a lot on the table at this time but it's nice to be "conservative" at first and see what problems (if any) arise. But I can say that the engine/driveline, right now at 630whp, feels far less stressed than it did when it was making 518whp with upgraded twins last year. Next time we get back on the dyno, I'll probably "fill out" the 5000-5500rpm range by raising the boost target 0.5-0.75psi which should make the power curve perfectly flat. Since this is the set-up that I suspect most people will spend the most time running, it's definitely going to get the most road testing time than any other configuration.

While max power full boost tunes are nice, what's the point of a glory run when no one else is going to run it for fear of breaking axles/driveshafts? I'd rather make a tune that is useable and that doesn't beat the crap out of the rest of the car.

There is always time for glory runs. But only after all the important and useful real-world testing is done. That's just the way we do things here.

Shiv

Last edited by shiv@vishnu; 02-22-2012 at 12:58 PM.
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      02-22-2012, 12:53 PM   #103
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wow!!!
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      02-22-2012, 12:56 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sA x sKy View Post
Legitimate question, is there any sign of turbo lag?
If you were to cruise around at 2500rpm, you would definitely notice a lack of boost response. But above 3000rpm, it's perfectly responsive. Above 3500rpm, even more so. At most, all i do to adapt is cruise around at 3000RPM or so. Which, in fact, i already did before because i've always hated to lug engines. So for me, I really don't notice much of a difference compared to my stock or upgraded twins. It's only when i purposely do low RPM/high gear lugging pulls (something I only do for tuning purposes) that I notice the lag.

Again, this is without the new billet turbine wheel which all customer cars will have in production kits. They should spool up 200-300RPM earlier which still being able to support the same power. And if that is still too laggy for you, there is an "one step smaller" turbo option that will spool up considerably quicker and *should* still able able to make 600whp.

Shiv

Last edited by shiv@vishnu; 02-22-2012 at 01:02 PM.
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      02-22-2012, 12:57 PM   #105
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We are running Forge DV on the single turbo kit. You can use it for your stock setup and when you do upgrade the same Forge DV's will still work. They are great and never failed!!! If you guys want something that works at a great price these are it!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chefcg1 View Post
Great work Shiv! can not wait to see some AT #'s and get a feel for what the tranny can withstand.
Are you using the stock diverters? Just wondering what the stock ones will hold.
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      02-22-2012, 01:03 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Boost is being ramped up quickly as possible. On the dyno, the turbo builds full boost by ~3900-4000rpm. On the street, it spools up at 3700-3800rpm. Above that, it can run whatever boost we want. In this case, we are limiting boost target at 4000rpm to just 16.5psi. Ramping it up linearly until 22.5psi at 6800rpm. That has nothing to do with spool-up. But rather intentional boost control tuning. It would only take a few key strokes to have it hit 22.5psi at ~4000rpm and hold it flat to redline. This would give the car heaps more midrange torque (~550+lbft) and make the car hell of a lot quicker despite making the same peak hp. But this extra pull will come at the expense of octane sensitivity and driveline stress. That kind of tune would be best left for running MS109 race gas with methanol. Also, my particular turbo doesn't have the new billet turbine wheel that the new turbos will have. So customers can expect this "middle sized" turbo to spool up another 200-300rpm quicker. I'll be testing the new turbo soon

The goal for now was to make a street-able, daily drivable tune (pump+meth) that makes gobs of power without needing race gas or an annoying metallic race clutch for long term use. Yes, we are leaving a lot on the table at this time but it's nice to be "conservative" at first and see what problems (if any) arise. But I can say that the engine/driveline, right now at 630whp, feels far less stressed than it did when it was making 518whp with upgraded twins last year. Next time we get back on the dyno, I'll probably "fill out" the 5000-5500rpm range by raising the boost target 0.5-0.75psi which should make the power curve perfectly flat. Since this is the set-up that I suspect most people will spend the most time running, it's definitely going to get the most road testing time than any other configuration.

While max power full boost tunes are nice, what's the point of a glory run when no one else is going to run it for fear of breaking axles/driveshafts? I'd rather make a tune that is useable and that doesn't beat the crap out of the rest of the car.

There is always time for glory runs. But only after all the important and useful real-world testing is done. That's just the way we do things here.

Shiv
Im glad to hear your tuning it with durability in mind not just numbers.

I just hope the 6AT will be able to handle the power
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      02-22-2012, 01:10 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Also, I don't have the run files for my 518whp MAX AGGRESSIVE TUNE (race gas+meth@21psi) FBO+ASR turbo runs. But looking at the dyno graphs, the fare more conservatively-tuned single is making 130WHP MORE POWER at 6800RPM.
Thats great. We only spend a brief moment at redline, so I'd imagine with a 7k rpm redline a delta of the area under the curve (racing curve) isn't a dramatic. Looking at the current dynos, the car would be much faster with a smaller turbo if you stayed at 600whp (peaking in the usable band). (see the HPF 1k whp car losing to 600hp GSR). That being said, I want this same big turbo

I agree 100% about doing tunes that we will all run first. I can't wait to see what yor final meth and race maps look like.
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      02-22-2012, 01:15 PM   #108
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Congrats Shiv! This is amazing. We need to talk this weekend at the track event
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      02-22-2012, 01:15 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ghost View Post
Thats great. We only spend a brief moment at redline, so I'd imagine with a 7k rpm redline a delta of the area under the curve (racing curve) isn't a dramatic. Looking at the current dynos, the car would be much faster with a smaller turbo if you stayed at 600whp (peaking in the usable band). (see the HPF 1k whp car losing to 600hp GSR). That being said, I want this same big turbo

I agree 100% about doing tunes that we will all run first. I can't wait to see what yor final meth and race maps look like.
We don't need a smaller turbo to make a fatter power band. If we ran the same midrange boost as we did with our max tune ASR+FBO/Meth set up, torque peak would probably be around 550lbft tapering gradually to ~460lf-ft at redline. Which means that we would pick up around 50-60WHP all throughout the midrange. Car would be much quicker but also unnecessary aggressive at this somewhat premature point in time.

shiv

Last edited by shiv@vishnu; 02-22-2012 at 01:29 PM.
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      02-22-2012, 01:21 PM   #110
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Shiv,

Just for fun, run your boys bolted C6 Z06 top end. I am very curious to see how they compare.
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