[1stKnight]

Originally Posted by peterg1965

So, I am on the verge of signing the contract for a brand new 330i M Sport Auto. But, before I do what do you people think? The ex management 335i SE or a brand new 330i M Sport???

What a dilemma!

I bought a '56 reg ex-BMW Management car with 3047 miles and a good deal of kit on it.
My previous 5 cars were all purchased brand new and I was very reluctant at first to entertain this option this time around...but given that when I bought my 330cd 'vert I had over 4k on the clock in the first two months, I figured a used car in as new condition with less than 5k mileage would surely not be too bad: given the savings to be had and I did make a significant enough saving to justify it to myself.

I went for a 335i SE. The SE has the sports seats and suspension I normally buy the M-Sport cars for anyway and I am not too taken by the M-Sport externals anyway. Indeed, if I do fancy a more aggressive sports kit, I'll buy AC Schnitzer later and freshen the car's look.
The only thing I miss is the beefier M-Sport steering wheel but eBay solved this and I have a new M3 wheel awaiting fitment.

335i vs 330i? Both excellent so tough choice but I can say from experience that the 335i is just sublime...power delivery is smooth and it sounds fantastic. The 335i's torque is to be considered too - it matches the 330cd I had for overtaking without the need for dropping down a gear...of course, drop down and the thrust of this car will leave a huge grin plastered to your face!

My biased opinion therefore must be for the 335i

[peterg1965]

Originally Posted by 1stKnight

I bought a '56 reg ex-BMW Management car with 3047 miles and a good deal of kit on it.
My previous 5 cars were all purchased brand new and I was very reluctant at first to entertain this option this time around...but given that when I bought my 330cd 'vert I had over 4k on the clock in the first two months, I figured a used car in as new condition with less than 5k mileage would surely not be too bad: given the savings to be had and I did make a significant enough saving to justify it to myself.

I went for a 335i SE. The SE has the sports seats and suspension I normally buy the M-Sport cars for anyway and I am not too taken by the M-Sport externals anyway. Indeed, if I do fancy a more aggressive sports kit, I'll buy AC Schnitzer later and freshen the car's look.
The only thing I miss is the beefier M-Sport steering wheel but eBay solved this and I have a new M3 wheel awaiting fitment.

335i vs 330i? Both excellent so tough choice but I can say from experience that the 335i is just sublime...power delivery is smooth and it sounds fantastic. The 335i's torque is to be considered too - it matches the 330cd I had for overtaking without the need for dropping down a gear...of course, drop down and the thrust of this car will leave a huge grin plastered to your face!

My biased opinion therefore must be for the 335i

IstKnight, mind if I ask how much you paid for your 335i? I think the one offered by the dealer is a little pricey. I have seen other AUC on the BMW website with similar kit for a few grand less. Albeit that the other cars are probably sep 06 as opposed to Feb 07 on the car I have been offered.

The dealer is very upfront about the price. I have seen the price of the car on the BMW 'system' from BMW UK (about £33,500) so the garage will make about £1500 once delivery and other items are paid to BMW UK. This car has a reprsentative saving of £6,500 on new.

[330cdsport]

Originally Posted by peterg1965

IstKnight, mind if I ask how much you paid for your 335i? I think the one offered by the dealer is a little pricey. I have seen other AUC on the BMW website with similar kit for a few grand less. Albeit that the other cars are probably sep 06 as opposed to Feb 07 on the car I have been offered.

The dealer is very upfront about the price. I have seen the price of the car on the BMW 'system' from BMW UK (about £33,500) so the garage will make about £1500 once delivery and other items are paid to BMW UK. This car has a reprsentative saving of £6,500 on new.

That does not seem a good deal at all if they are only offering you £6500 discount on a 4 month old car, considering you should get about £5000 discount off a new car of this calibre - and then you can spec it exactly as you like.

[RockIt]

Originally Posted by peterg1965

Hi BC4J, regretably that BMW Finance incentive is limited to the E90/E91 3 Series (and other incentives exist for the 1 and 5 Series). It does not, and in the opinion of the finance manager at my dealership, will not be applied to the E92/E93 in the foreseeable future. I suppose those cars sell themselves with no need to offer cheap money.

Still makes me a little annoyed that the BMW PCP finance is 10.9% APR, there is a bit of negotiation on this, I suspect, but not that much.

My dealer was keen to secure finance and matched my quotation from the company I was using for my previous car of 6.7%APR. As I didn't have much of a deposit to put down, this suited me better than a personal loan. I probably didn't get such a favourable discount on the vehicle to offset this, but they were quite happy to negotiate the finance when pressed. I've had new cars on PCPs for the last 10 years now. Drive 'em hard, hand 'em back and move on to the next one

[1stKnight]

Originally Posted by peterg1965

IstKnight, mind if I ask how much you paid for your 335i? I think the one offered by the dealer is a little pricey. I have seen other AUC on the BMW website with similar kit for a few grand less. Albeit that the other cars are probably sep 06 as opposed to Feb 07 on the car I have been offered.

The dealer is very upfront about the price. I have seen the price of the car on the BMW 'system' from BMW UK (about £33,500) so the garage will make about £1500 once delivery and other items are paid to BMW UK. This car has a reprsentative saving of £6,500 on new.

I paid £33k all said and done. Speccing a new at the time, even with discount, still made the deal sweeter for me given that it has everything I want and 3k mileage is next to nothing at all given the miles I do.

[NFS]

Originally Posted by peterg1965

Back to the subject at hand!

I have spent the day looking at finance options on the 330i M Sport, calling different finance houses/Brokers to get PCP quotes to beat BMW Finance, which at 10.9% APR is taking the mickey!

I am slightly perplexed by the range of Guaranteed future values offered; from £13.5K to £17K over 4 years, and also the monthly payments and the APR's. What strikes me is the huge amount of interest incurred over a 4 year PCP. In the case of BMW Finance the Interest is a whopping £9,500

I am not in the fortuitous position of a cash purchase, but can afford the high monthly payments (asset rich, cash poor I think is the phrase!). An alternate option is two personal loans to cover the finance amount, it being over £25K. The interest incurred at 6 - 7% APR is much more palitable, around £6900 over a 6 year term, which gives similar monthly payments and saves over £2500 in Interest. The other advantage is that the car is mine with no mileage limits. I am unilkely to keep the 330i for four years, my only proviso in all this is that the car should always be worth more than I owe on it! This is more likely to be the case with a Personal Loan IMHO.

Has anyone else gone down the PCP route?

I would strongly recommend that you look at lease purchase as well as PCP.

The PCP deals BMW offered me had very unrealistic GMFV's largely because BMW are takig the risk on the trade in value at the end of the term.

With a lease purchase you can set your own final payment, so you can be more realistic and keep the monthly payment down (although you still pay interest on the total cost).

The aa have a good online valuation service which will help you determine what your car will be worth (http://www.theaa.com/cbg/Manufacture...=fullValuation) and you should also check out the what car depreciation index (http://www.whatcar.com/depreciation-index.aspx).

Like you I was also offered very high rates for PCP / Lease purchase. BMW told me these were always higher than personal loans.

However I contacted Lombard who usually work with businesses, but will lend against high value personal car purchases (http://www.lombard.co.uk/lombard/uk/...bard&HBX_OU=50)

They matched the best rates available for personal loans within 5 minutes. When I told BMW this they offered to match it - despite having told me this was 'impossible' an hour before.

The current best rate on moneysupermarket.com for a £25k personal loan is 6.3% so that should be your target!

Rather than rely on the dealer to do the maths try using this calculator to play around with the options before you go in:

http://www.dynamic-webs.co.uk/inform...alculator.html

Finally, check out all the online brokers (broadspeed, drivethedeal, coast 2 coast) discounts before you go back to the dealer and push him to get as close to their costs as possible for the purchase price.

As an idea you can get a 335i auto from drive the deal for £ 36,500 if you put down a £1k deposit and financed the rest at 6.3% for 4 years with a final payment of 35%, then you would be looking at £600 per month and a total interest cost of £6K over the term


Finally, you could also check out leasing if your milage is lowish, I found that it was quite economic for 10-15K a year, but not so good for 20K plus.

Good luck - hope this helps.

[NFS]

Originally Posted by peterg1965

Still makes me a little annoyed that the BMW PCP finance is 10.9% APR, there is a bit of negotiation on this, I suspect, but not that much.

Trust me ... the BMW business manager who is offering this rate is bullshitting you.

They will offer lower ... much lower ... you just need to prove you can do better elsewhere,

[peterg1965]

needforspeed, many thanks, very useful stuff. I now have enough ammunition to go in a have a go at the business manager!

[1stKnight]

Originally Posted by peterg1965

needforspeed, many thanks, very useful stuff. I now have enough ammunition to go in a have a go at the business manager!

To add to this discussion, I've used BMW Finance for my previous 3 cars and have now switched to Prestige Car Finance who use Lombard. Unlike BMW F, the interest isn't loaded up front but calculated daily...a good option for people like me who have a history of not seeing the term through due to impulse buys...

They were very good and BMW F refused to match the deal offered - and the Dealer really tried.

[peterg1965]

Originally Posted by 1stKnight

To add to this discussion, I've used BMW Finance for my previous 3 cars and have now switched to Prestige Car Finance who use Lombard. Unlike BMW F, the interest isn't loaded up front but calculated daily...a good option for people like me who have a history of not seeing the term through due to impulse buys...

They were very good and BMW F refused to match the deal offered - and the Dealer really tried.

Ist Knight, I will be calling Prestige Car Finance this afternoon. I, like you, have a huge history of changing my cars with incredible regularity.

[mgarvey]

My views for what they are worth:

1) I bought my last two BMW's, one new one ex-management, on Lease Purchase, since the ability to choose your balloon payment really reduces monthly payments. You take the risk on the eventual value of your car, but can set a sensible value.

2) I am very skeptical of depreciation figures on any publically accessible web site (AA, What Car, or whatever). My experience of about my last 5 cars is that you should take the lowest part-ex value given on these sites and reduce it by about 10%-15% to get the real value you will be offered by a dealer. I've never been quite sure why this is, but I've been stung so many times by this, sometimes finding myself totally unable to afford the car I wanted as a result.

3) Likewise I am skeptical of the 'purchase' values on the BMW system. I bought my current E91 this way, and my dealer was adamant they had to pay £22k for my 320d, yet there were literally dozens of 320d's of the same spec on the BMW.co.uk used car website for around the £22.5k mark. There is no way all these other dealers were selling their cars for only £500 profit.

4) I would get the 335i if it were me, as I'd always wish I'd bought the better car. You could always wait a bit and see if a 335i comes up in a spec/colour closer to what you want - the new 330i will still be there as a fall-back.

[peterg1965]

Originally Posted by mgarvey

My views for what they are worth:

1) I bought my last two BMW's, one new one ex-management, on Lease Purchase, since the ability to choose your balloon payment really reduces monthly payments. You take the risk on the eventual value of your car, but can set a sensible value.

2) I am very skeptical of depreciation figures on any publically accessible web site (AA, What Car, or whatever). My experience of about my last 5 cars is that you should take the lowest part-ex value given on these sites and reduce it by about 10%-15% to get the real value you will be offered by a dealer. I've never been quite sure why this is, but I've been stung so many times by this, sometimes finding myself totally unable to afford the car I wanted as a result.

3) Likewise I am skeptical of the 'purchase' values on the BMW system. I bought my current E91 this way, and my dealer was adamant they had to pay £22k for my 320d, yet there were literally dozens of 320d's of the same spec on the BMW.co.uk used car website for around the £22.5k mark. There is no way all these other dealers were selling their cars for only £500 profit.

4) I would get the 335i if it were me, as I'd always wish I'd bought the better car. You could always wait a bit and see if a 335i comes up in a spec/colour closer to what you want - the new 330i will still be there as a fall-back.

More great advice thanks. I have held back from making a decision after considering all your suggestions and finance advice. I am minded to wait a few more months, this is incredibly difficult as I really want to get into an E92 soonest, but if I wait I will be able to see what starts to appear on the ex management 'M Sport' front. As yet it is too early for them to make them available for retail. I will continue to 'rough it' in my ST3 (which is only 4 weeks old after all!) but its part ex value is equal to what I paid for it. I will hope that its value doesn't fall through the floor in the next few months! Maybe I should aim to sell that privately to actually make some money on a car for the first time!

I have seen a couple of E92 M Sports around on the roads over the last few months, they look fantastic, especially with the 225 19" wheels. An M Sport 335i would be the ultimate, and should be affordable as an ex BMW management car if I just bide my time. The new 330i M Sport is very tempting (espcially as I can have excatly my spec), there is less likelihood of getting a le mans blue/Jade Grey combo from an ex management vehicle I am led to believe. The 'staff choices' generally tend to be a little conservative (small 'c' ) so black and biege make up the vast majority of interior colours.

As for finance I have contacted a variety of finance brokers, impressed with Brokers4Cars, great rates 7.5% APR, and also PrestigeCarFinance which gave a good monthly figure on a 'Balanced Payment' plan, however the residual was ridiculous (£18K after 4 years) and a variable interest rate which tracked the BoE base rate. I have enough info and quotes to try and convince the business manager at my local dealer to try harder with BMW F. I will also look at Lease Purchase, but the requirement is that I must be able to settle early with minimum penalty.

[NFS]

Originally Posted by peterg1965

I will also look at Lease Purchase, but the requirement is that I must be able to settle early with minimum penalty.

Early settlement figures on BMW finance are pretty good - no significant penalties.

I have my car financed over 4 years, but there is no way i'll be keeping it that long. With lease purchase - provided your final payment is not unrealistic, the settlement figure should generally be close to the value.

In contrast to some other posts - when I traded in my 530d I did get the value quoted by theaa.co from my local dealer. You will struggle though with cars that the dealer will not directly sell on from the forecourt and other dealers were less generous.

In terms of sequencing I agreed the part x first, then finance, then discount.

That way you can keep control of the money. I suspect dealers often try to offset a good discount with bad finance and vice versa, so you have to push hard on all three.

My trade in was slightly over the book price, my finance was equivalent to the best personal loan rate on moneysupermarket.com and my discount was around 8%.

Funnily enough the business manager seems to remember me for some reason

[ministry maniac]

Originally Posted by needforspeed

Like you I was also offered very high rates for PCP / Lease purchase. BMW told me these were always higher than personal loans.

However I contacted Lombard who usually work with businesses, but will lend against high value personal car purchases (http://www.lombard.co.uk/lombard/uk/...bard&HBX_OU=50)

They matched the best rates available for personal loans within 5 minutes. When I told BMW this they offered to match it - despite having told me this was 'impossible' an hour before.

The current best rate on moneysupermarket.com for a £25k personal loan is 6.3% so that should be your target!

How do you approach Lombard though if you are buying a car privately (not through business)? When I enquired about using them for car finance they said they only deal with businesses and self employed. Do you have a contact name and number by any chance?

[NFS]

Originally Posted by ministry maniac

How do you approach Lombard though if you are buying a car privately (not through business)? When I enquired about using them for car finance they said they only deal with businesses and self employed. Do you have a contact name and number by any chance?

I just called the 0800 number on the website above.

The chap I spoke to (sorry forgot the name) said that they would lend to private customers on a high value loan. They were happy to lend me £30k(ish) for my car.

[peterg1965]

Call me 'Mr indecisive'! Still havent made up my mind what to do ref which car to choose, but I am decided on the finance route which is to take a further personal loan, this works out much cheaper than any bespoke vehicle finance package and is emminently more flexible in my view.

My dealer called this morning and has offered me a 335d SE Auto Coupe (fully loaded - pro nav BT etc) in Black with Cream Biege, 3,000 miles on the clock, Dec 06 (56). I am just so tempted, and my p/x price on the ST (£16K) means that I will make £200 profit on that!). Cost of the 335d is £34,500 - This is an ex management car again, is this a good price? Or shall I haggle for a further £750 off?

Although it is not the 335i petrol that I crave, it is more 'sensible' in terms of running costs and is still extremely quick! Looking ahead to resale it might just be worth more than the petrol too. Told you I am being very indecisive, but dealer needs the nod on the deal today as someone is wanting the Focus.

[330cdsport]

Seems expensive for a 7 month old car considering you could have a new SE with pro nav, leather, bluetooth and voice for £35400 or thereabouts.

But I suppose realistically they are giving you a few thousand less for the ST.

[da2]

Originally Posted by BC4J

I looked into it before ordering my 335d. BMW Finance are currently offering a deal at 8.1% APR with a £1250 contribution towards your deposit. You have to take the PCP out for 3 years and register the car before 29 June - though the dealer thought this might well be extended. Even so, it worked out to be about £3250 in interest (after netting off the £1250) over the three years, based on 15K miles per annum and £25K financed. In the end I went with a Northern Rock personal loan - 6.2% APR (3.2% Flat) and over a grand saved in interest.

BC4J- do you know if the offfer of 8.1% apr and £1250 contribution from BMW fianace is only for new cars or does it apply to Aproved Used ones as well?
My dealer quoted on 5.9% apr on amount financed and 9% interest on the Balloon and he worked out that the combined apr works out to 8% does this make any sense to anyone

[mjh93sa]

Originally Posted by peterg1965

.... dealer needs the nod on the deal today as someone is wanting the Focus.

If you're ready to move then try a low offer to secure the deal today?

[NFS]

Originally Posted by peterg1965

but I am decided on the finance route which is to take a further personal loan, this works out much cheaper than any bespoke vehicle finance package and is emminently more flexible in my view.

A pure personal loan is cheaper than a lease purchase agreement in terms of credit charges. However, this is simply because you are paying off the entire loan during the term.

So a £30k personal loan over 48 months at 7% APR would be £715.40 a month with total credit charges of £4,339.12

The same deal with a lease purchase and a 30% final payment would be £551.67 a month with total credit charges of £5,479.97

So the credit is costing £1,140.85 more over the term, but you are reducing the payments by £163.73 a month.

If you propose to make the final payment and own the car, then this is simply more expensive. But, if you propose to sell the car before the end of the term then, so long as the trade in value is equivalent to the outstanding loan, you will be OK.

You could argue that the loan route will leave you with additional equity in the car on resale, but this is a less flexible route then simply sticking the extra £163.73 a month in a building society account instead.

[NFS]

Originally Posted by da2

BC4J- do you know if the offfer of 8.1% apr and £1250 contribution from BMW fianace is only for new cars or does it apply to Aproved Used ones as well?
My dealer quoted on 5.9% apr on amount financed and 9% interest on the Balloon and he worked out that the combined apr works out to 8% does this make any sense to anyone

It makes sense, but he is only splitting out the interest to try to confuse you and persuade you that he is offering a better rate than he really is.

It's not 5.9% - it's 8% simple as that.

Personally I think you should be able to get 7% on a PCP or Lease Purchase at the moment.

The cheapest loans are around 6.3%

I'd also be sceptical about the £1250 cashback. I think it's a gimmick and it will only reduce your discount.

[BC4J]

Originally Posted by needforspeed

It makes sense, but he is only splitting out the interest to try to confuse you and persuade you that he is offering a better rate than he really is.

It's not 5.9% - it's 8% simple as that.

Personally I think you should be able to get 7% on a PCP or Lease Purchase at the moment.

The cheapest loans are around 6.3%

I'd also be sceptical about the £1250 cashback. I think it's a gimmick and it will only reduce your discount.

The £1250 comes from BMW Finance so is not funded by the dealer. The deal only applies to new cars and particular models, e.g. E90, E91. Car has to be registered by June 29, but as the deal has already been extended once it may well be again. In the end I went with a personal loan as the interest was decidely less.