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      03-18-2016, 02:33 PM   #1
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E90 Suspension Gurus: Yes ANOTHER Help Me Fix The Rear End Thread.

'08 135.

Stock Springs
Bilstein HDs
Front M3 H&R Sway
Strongflex Front CA/TS Polys
Whiteline rear subframe bushings
Monroe rear upper shock mounts

The car still has the dread rear end steer/jumpiness over bumps, particularly mid corner but also going straight.

Is this still all the bump steer built in back there?

Has anyone identified a proper solution for this?

Is it in the rear trailing arm bushings (toe arms?)?

The spring arm inboard bushing?

Not really looking for the "install M3 rear arms" answer...but something more specific.

If I'm going to start replacing bushings back there, want some first hand advice on where to start.
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      03-24-2016, 03:04 PM   #2
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Get yourself a set of solid aluminum rear sub frame bushings and problem solved! I bought mine from turner motorsport.
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      03-24-2016, 05:09 PM   #3
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Psychosomatic.

I drove the snot out of my wife's 335D at Chuckwalla a few weekends ago. The problem with this chassis isn't the back end, it's the FRONT END.

And that's with almost 500 ft-lbs of twist all going to BONE STOCK rear.
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      03-24-2016, 07:57 PM   #4
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Decrease rear tire pressure?
Not the sexy solution, but easy enough to try.
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      03-24-2016, 09:11 PM   #5
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My problem is the rear. Front end is firmed up already.
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      03-25-2016, 01:34 AM   #6
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I had M3 guide rods and aftermarket toe and camber arms put in. The rear feels super solid now and I'm still on stock subframe bushings. Not sure which of the 3 parts contributed the most, but the unstable feeling during mid-turn bumps is totally gone.
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      03-25-2016, 01:37 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
The car still has the dread rear end steer/jumpiness over bumps, particularly mid corner but also going straight.
I believe the consensus is the stiffer diff mounts and a lockdown kit.
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      03-25-2016, 07:20 AM   #8
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My car has this too and I'd love to solve it. Btw my car is in the shop (335d), and I have a 2015 BMW 535i as a loaner with 10k miles. I noticed it has some of the same issue, just not as sever as my d. Makes me wonder if its peculiar to bmws or a specific kind of damage,. I did not notice the jumpy rear end on the 335 and 228 loaners I have had.
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      03-25-2016, 08:52 AM   #9
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This is a real problem for many and few have fixed it. I'm by no means a professional in this area but I have tried several common fixes without success...

My guess is that these cars are getting older and the parts are wearing down. (Regardless of miles) Couple this with more power and the car starts to feel unstable. I have modified everything but the trailing arms and inner/outer bushings. This will be my next upgrade. (My e92 is an 07 with 56k miles)

It could be this is the problem in my car, and maybe different for you or anyone else? I can only say I have the issue above and I have spent thousands replacing everything else.

Good luck...
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      03-25-2016, 09:16 AM   #10
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Maybe instead of the Monroe shock mounts go with something stiffer? Also you said you have the HD's with stock suspension, do you mean sport or normal non lowered height? B8's were better than the HD's for me with my eibach pro-kits.
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      03-25-2016, 09:51 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnerxq View Post
B8's were better than the HD's for me with my eibach pro-kits.
This is of no surprise considering that B8s are meant for lowering springs and B6s (HDs) are not; given the shorter stroke and all.
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      03-25-2016, 09:59 AM   #12
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I just switched from OEM struts w/ Tein S Tech springs to Airlift Performance Air Suspension and now I am noticing that the jumpiness has increased in the rear. Not sure if its just the dampening on the suspension (which is adjustable) or is something is out of wack. Just saw this thread and is making me wonder what it could be.
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      03-25-2016, 10:43 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
My problem is the rear. Front end is firmed up already.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yozh View Post
I believe the consensus is the stiffer diff mounts and a lockdown kit.
In the rear I've Koni Yellow, BMWPS, e30 10mm spring pads, M3 arms, bushings inserts and VWETISH lock diff.
I did not install any off these parts all at once.
First: the Me arms > ZERO noticeable improvement
Second: the Koni and BMWPS > better but too low for my taste so installed e30 10mm pad
Third: bushing inserts > noticeable difference
Fourth: Monroe bushings > very noticeable improvement
Fifth: VWETISH lockdown > improvement with wheel hop and when accelerating on rough payment
I run 275/35-18 RS-3 on Apex 18x10 et 25
The result is satisfactory to me and I personally think that going hard core id the rear will not remedy all the issues because I think is also due to suspension design and how components move back there.
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      03-25-2016, 11:46 AM   #14
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As long as everything is in good shape, aftermarket rear toe arms made a very dramatic difference in the rear stability of my car.
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      03-25-2016, 02:31 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yozh View Post
I believe the consensus is the stiffer diff mounts and a lockdown kit.
No, not at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VTECaddict View Post
I had M3 guide rods and aftermarket toe and camber arms put in. The rear feels super solid now and I'm still on stock subframe bushings. Not sure which of the 3 parts contributed the most, but the unstable feeling during mid-turn bumps is totally gone.
This is good news.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whosdady View Post
This is a real problem for many and few have fixed it. I'm by no means a professional in this area but I have tried several common fixes without success...

My guess is that these cars are getting older and the parts are wearing down. (Regardless of miles) Couple this with more power and the car starts to feel unstable. I have modified everything but the trailing arms and inner/outer bushings. This will be my next upgrade. (My e92 is an 07 with 56k miles)

It could be this is the problem in my car, and maybe different for you or anyone else? I can only say I have the issue above and I have spent thousands replacing everything else.

Good luck...
I'm going to do things one at a time, and get a more definitive answer for everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StealYourFace View Post
As long as everything is in good shape, aftermarket rear toe arms made a very dramatic difference in the rear stability of my car.
Great.

I'm starting with replacing the toe arm bushings with Whiteline polys.

If that's not it, trailing arm will be next.

Camber arm inner I suppose is an option...but I can't see that being it.
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      03-25-2016, 05:57 PM   #16
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Can bad engine mounts have an effect on the drive shaft which will effect the rear?
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      03-25-2016, 08:21 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnerxq View Post
Can bad engine mounts have an effect on the drive shaft which will effect the rear?
No, bad engine mount will result in rough vibrations at idle, accelerating, decelerating and broken down pipes.
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      03-28-2016, 09:27 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feuer View Post
No, bad engine mount will result in rough vibrations at idle, accelerating, decelerating and broken down pipes.
I'd imagine you'd see the PS pulley make contact with the subframe before seeing a "broken" downpipe...have yet to see that happen.
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      03-28-2016, 11:05 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FCobra94 View Post
I'd imagine you'd see the PS pulley make contact with the subframe before seeing a "broken" downpipe...have yet to see that happen.
The issue with the PS pulley was on older models and I believe BMW update the front subframe. This platform is still relatively new for OEM engine mounts to deteriorate so badly and cause such issues. So I have not seen broken downpipe on e9x yet either but on other cars yes, especially 10+ years tuned cars with aftermarket downpipes that don't have the built in flex ribbed section like the stock downpipes. To my knowledge only Wagner has that build in from the aftermarket selection.
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      03-28-2016, 12:08 PM   #20
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Quote:
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The issue with the PS pulley was on older models and I believe BMW update the front subframe.
False. Plenty of newer models have shown the issue as well. I've also yet to see proof of an "updated" subframe.
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      03-28-2016, 12:45 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FCobra94 View Post
False. Plenty of newer models have shown the issue as well. I've also yet to see proof of an "updated" subframe.
According to BMW SIB 11 09 08 only certain models were effected:
E82, E88 (1 Series) with N54 engine up to 4/08
E90, E92, E93 (3 Series) with N54 engine up to 4/08 except xi models
Per SIB 11 09 08 if the subframe and/or PS pulley shows any sign of contact it must must be replaced with part#31116785639 that supposedly is revised. For very first E90, E92, and E93 vehicles produced up to 3/19/07 replacement of the engine mount bracket was also advised with part#22116760317
Honestly I haven't seen it on newer car. The belt to go yes but not from contact. Usually is from oil leak from the OFH. If it does undetected for long time the belt will deteriorate and shred.
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      03-28-2016, 12:55 PM   #22
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I've seen a few '09s and at least one '11 have the "PS pulley subframe contact issue"...some more than once.

No N54 is safe. (hide yo kids/hide yo wife/etc.)
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