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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > BMW Dinan software bug, enhanced with stage 2 Mod



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      03-14-2012, 09:50 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
What is your BMW firmware version? What is your ECU ID? Do you have MSD80 or MSD81? How many miles on your car? All this can play into how the engine performs.

I have 27K on my 2008 model with MSD80. ECU Id is I8A0S. No waste gate rattle, no vacuum problems. Perhaps this is isolated to a specific BMW firmware and ECU version.
i have the same ecu id (I8A0S), 2007 with 50k miles, msd80. i know i have the most up-to-date bmw software originally on the ecu. it's not software or ecu related. IT'S HARDWARE RELATED. my money's on wastegate stiffness
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      03-14-2012, 09:53 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by bryce View Post
my main point is this- off-the-shelf maps are designed to fit a wide range of users at different altitudes, temperatures, humidity, octane, etc. it can't fit everyone's specific needs as there are hardware variances. if i was having issues like you are, i would get a custom tune from ProEFI that should eliminate any surges, oscillations, or whatever else you're having. don't expect cobb to fix a hardware issue
I agree completely! I do not think however this is a hardware issue. I am sick and tired of hearing people and some tuners (you know of whom I speak) here blaming hardware for shortcomings of their tuning.

Look, all I know is that there is a significant improvement from Cobb v3.01 to v4.01 beta when it comes to this oscillation. So, the latest beta maps must have something that smooths things out.

Like I said before: I don't think Cobb's tune is to be blamed for those oscillations. At this point I am more willing ti point my finger at a buggy BMW firmware than anything.
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      03-14-2012, 09:54 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by bryce View Post
IT'S HARDWARE RELATED. my money's on wastegate stiffness
Ok, so what do you suggest I do? Getting a Pro Tuned map is just masking the problem, not solving it.
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      03-14-2012, 09:57 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
Ok, so what do you suggest I do? Getting a Pro Tuned map is just masking the problem, not solving it.
getting pro tuned would not mask the issue. it would properly address it. if it is a wastegate issue, getting protuned would eliminate any oscillations by dialing in your boost response
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      03-14-2012, 09:58 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by bryce View Post
here's another log with a few timing drops. i think the timing drops were a result of the tune not being fully adapted, as i had just reflased to stage2+ stock throttle on the way to work.
You realize that all the logs you have posted are from 4000RPM and up, while the Cobb problems are below 4000RPM ?
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      03-14-2012, 09:59 AM   #50
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The problem with Dinan is the cost. For +2K$ you should get a troublefree free tune. Especially when considering how conservative and basic it is.

Hell, you'll get the same power out of a SSTT or JB+(without any hesitation or osscilations) and you can pick one up for $100 or less.
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      03-14-2012, 10:00 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
I agree completely! I do not think however this is a hardware issue. I am sick and tired of hearing people and some tuners (you know of whom I speak) here blaming hardware for shortcomings of their tuning.

Look, all I know is that there is a significant improvement from Cobb v3.01 to v4.01 beta when it comes to this oscillation. So, the latest beta maps must have something that smooths things out.

Like I said before: I don't think Cobb's tune is to be blamed for those oscillations. At this point I am more willing ti point my finger at a buggy BMW firmware than anything.
i have a (relatively) easy trouble shooting step for you- find someone with an older procede v4 (so it's not vin-locked) and borrow their piggyback. install it on your car, do some datalogs. procede directly controls the wastegates, and it accounts for variances much better than a flash can. if this solves your choppy boost response, oscillations, or surges, you'll know it's a wastegate issue.
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      03-14-2012, 10:04 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by tscdennab View Post
You realize that all the logs you have posted are from 4000RPM and up, while the Cobb problems are below 4000RPM ?
no, the datalogs are from low rpm's. the rpm scalling on that datalog viewer is wrong. here's the same datalog, but with the rpm values mapped insted of on the x-axis
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      03-14-2012, 10:05 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by rader1 View Post
The problem with Dinan is the cost. For +2K$ you should get a troublefree free tune. Especially when considering how conservative and basic it is.

Hell, you'll get the same power out of a SSTT or JB+(without any hesitation or osscilations) and you can pick one up for $100 or less.
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      03-14-2012, 10:12 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryce View Post
procede directly controls the wastegates, and it accounts for variances much better than a flash can. if this solves your choppy boost response, oscillations, or surges, you'll know it's a wastegate issue.
If you don't have the issue with other tune, how on Earth can you reach the conclusion that it'a a hardware issue and it's not the original tune issue

It's the other way around: if no other tune solves the problem, then it is probably a hardware issue.
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      03-14-2012, 10:20 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by tscdennab View Post
If you don't have the issue with other tune, how on Earth can you reach the conclusion that it'a a hardware issue and it's not the original tune issue

It's the other way around: if no other tune solves the problem, then it is probably a hardware issue.
procede controls wastegates directly; cobb doesn't. if it's a wastegate stiffness issue, the procede will eliminate it.
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      03-14-2012, 10:20 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tscdennab View Post
If you don't have the issue with other tune, how on Earth can you reach the conclusion that it'a a hardware issue and it's not the original tune issue

It's the other way around: if no other tune solves the problem, then it is probably a hardware issue.
Sigh...

Guys, the stiffness in the wastegates is different across models, not by design but by flaw. The WGDC that the DME throws at the car causes the boost to either be on point, or in the case of a STIFFER or LOOSER actuator - it will be all over the place. Hence, your throttle oscillation. Shiv changed the way the PROcede WGDC works to account for this.

IT IS HARDWARE related.
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      03-14-2012, 10:31 AM   #57
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Well, just to throw a wrench in some of your logic: the MSD80 has the ability to learn about its waste gates. There are adaptations for the 2 wastegates. You can view and reset them with INPA.

I've not checked mine. Perhaps I'll take a look and see if this can be eliminated with a simple adaptation reset.
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      03-14-2012, 10:39 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by roundel335 View Post

BuraQ - let me know what you find out about that throttle oscillation correction - I get that too, on occasion. It's definitely throttle-related from the way it feels.
I am pretty sure its something in the BMW software, perhaps the stock throttle map. On Dinan S2 and S3 I only experienced the oscillation when going WOT in 3rd and 4th gears. From a stand still WOT launch its non existent.

I just thought it was a general flash base problem, but since I changed tunes, its starting to look more like a BMW issue than it being solely tune related

Quote:
Originally Posted by bryce View Post
my cobb stage 2+ logs are perfect. no misfires. no oscillations. no hesitations. no problems whatsoever.
What throttle map do you use ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bryce View Post
the majority of cobb users have none of the issues you're referencing. yes, there are some users that do, but cobb easily has the largest market share of tunes on the n54. i'd bet the same percentage of users have issues with jb4, procede, GIAC, etc.
There are more complaints about oscillation than there is no oscillation. Why do you think Cobb is trying to remedy this issue ? They obvious are aware of it and the cause.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bryce View Post
i'm pretty sure the dinan tune hasn't changed or been updated since it came out in 2007.
Wrong ! There has been an update release .....none lately correct and google is you best friend

Quote:
Originally Posted by bryce View Post
....12-13 psi tune that was created years ago, and you're arguing that it's better than cobb tunes that are constantly updated and improved upon?
The PSI rating per stage is as follows
  • Stage 1 / 11 PSI
  • Stage 2 / 13 PSI
  • Stage 3 / 14 PSI w/ FMIC
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      03-14-2012, 10:43 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
What is your BMW firmware version? What is your ECU ID? Do you have MSD80 or MSD81? How many miles on your car? All this can play into how the engine performs.

I have 27K on my 2008 model with MSD80. ECU Id is I8A0S. No waste gate rattle, no vacuum problems. Perhaps this is isolated to a specific BMW firmware and ECU version.
I have 50k on my 2007 model with MSD80 and ECU I8A0S

I do get a slight rattle. Maybe your waste gates are tighter than mine?
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      03-14-2012, 10:49 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lulz_M3 View Post
Sigh...

Guys, the stiffness in the wastegates is different across models, not by design but by flaw. The WGDC that the DME throws at the car causes the boost to either be on point, or in the case of a STIFFER or LOOSER actuator - it will be all over the place. Hence, your throttle oscillation. Shiv changed the way the PROcede WGDC works to account for this.

IT IS HARDWARE related.
+1
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      03-14-2012, 10:50 AM   #61
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I think both are right... it's a combination of hardware and tuning. The tuning doesn't have the range, authority to change PID, WG base map, etc to accommodate all the different WG properties. At lower boost this range is effectively wider due to the WGDC spread being more narrow. I have a feeling Cobb has kept BMWs adaptation range the same, or has not broadened it enough. Either you need more flexible adaptation or customized mapping.
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      03-14-2012, 11:43 AM   #62
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buraq-
i use stock throttle map.

there are thousands of cobb users. most users don't experience the issue, so they don't post about it. i've seen a few people posting about it, far from the majority of users, especially when you consider that cobb has sold well over 1,000 AP's for bmw's.

if dinan has been upgraded, what did the update consist of? the interwebz doesn't have any evidence that the software was ever changed. the fact that the oscillation has been an issue for 3+ years tells me that either dinan was never updated, or the update was over 3 years ago. hardly what i'd call regular updates.




vasillalov-
interesting about INPA. i wonder what the range for wastegate adaptation is. obviously, it's not wide or authoratative enough for generic off-the-shelf tunes like dinan or cobb.
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      03-14-2012, 11:56 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by bryce View Post
vasillalov-
interesting about INPA. i wonder what the range for wastegate adaptation is. obviously, it's not wide or authoratative enough for generic off-the-shelf tunes like dinan or cobb.
I'll try to take a closer look soon and will take some screenshots.
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      03-14-2012, 12:01 PM   #64
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Even if it cant be felt that much on v400 the boost oscillation is being fixed by cobb, next on the list. Unfortunately there are so many bmw softwares out and wg stiffness that is hard to cover them all in one go without looking att lots of logs.
It will be fixed, thats for sure. Its amazing how cobb team works on tuning this engine properly.
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      03-14-2012, 12:03 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by bryce View Post

....if dinan has been upgraded, what did the update consist of? the interwebz doesn't have any evidence that the software was ever changed. the fact that the oscillation has been an issue for 3+ years tells me that either dinan was never updated, or the update was over 3 years ago. hardly what i'd call regular updates.
Is this good enough ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve.breen@dinan View Post
Based upon recent feedback we've received, we've sorted out what appears to be an issue with automatic transmission equipped 335,135,535 cars running our newest stage 2 software version. We've been in contact with several customers who have experienced difficulty, and we ask that anyone experiencing problems contact us directly.

Again, the problem seems to only affect cars with automatic transmissions and our newest stage 2 software release (stages 1 and 3 are performing correctly). The specific symptom is stock boost levels, and so an affected engine will produce significantly less power than intended. Contrary to a couple rumors, this was not caused by the stock BMW program overriding our program, or by any changes in DME encryption. We've tracked it down to a minor programming error, and we will be releasing a corrected software version to dealers next week.

We appreciate everyone's patience and communication. Feel free to call our tech support for further info: 1-800-341-5480.

Thanks
Do they have updates like Cobb ? No. They seldom have updates is something you shoudl have said, not they never have or never had an update or their software has been the same since ions ago.


Edit: If you search all post of steve.breen@dinan you will see, when they were active on this forum back in the days, what they tackled when BMW changed something on their end also.

Edit: Here is another one http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144293
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Last edited by BuraQ; 03-14-2012 at 12:11 PM.
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      03-14-2012, 12:07 PM   #66
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I remember reading somewhere that Cobb has varying maps for Subies based on WG stiffness.
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