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      09-17-2009, 10:45 AM   #1
RagingKileak
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Bilstein B12 VS BMW Performance Suspension

Hello,

Some of you might notice I recently reinvigorated the BMW Performance thread from ages ago...

In contrast to this, how do you guys feel about Bilstein B12 suspension kits - it looks like a pretty tasty matched springs/dampers setup.

I personally dont need to set the world on fire, but lets face it - M-Sport suspension is shit, it skips about like a hamster thats been dropped on its head and its fucking awful over anything but the smoothest of surfaces!

BMW Performance suspension has left me scratching my head, because OEM or not, I am sure as hell not going to get BMW to fit it, so they wont warranty it anyway.

Matt
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      09-17-2009, 11:50 AM   #2
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Matt,

Can you get the B12 for the E90 (335D)?

Why B12 over B16? (not ride control as that's 's)

I'm assuming BMW have stated that they won't stand by their warranty on the car or performance parts if fitted by others?

How important is the warranty to you? (Is the car mapped?)

I would not worry about fitting the BMW performance parts outside of the dealer network as long as the company was a reputable one (Birds or similar), or the individual was a BMW techie or ex techie.
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      09-17-2009, 12:32 PM   #3
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Aye, ride control has been considered but is not an option for me. There is just no point!

B12 vs B16. Well to be honest I have no frame of reference for either really, although B12 has been suggested as a good product at a similar price to PBMW.

As for PBMW it's easily still in the running, but with not a single person who has experienced it, well I can't help but feel it might be the typical pisstake - barely making a difference, maybe not though - I just don't know!

My car is already modified to the point it scares main dealers, so I don't care about that at all - I have a competent fitter in mind!

I just want the pros and cons really!!

Matt
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      09-17-2009, 02:33 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingKileak View Post
Hello,

Some of you might notice I recently reinvigorated the BMW Performance thread from ages ago...

In contrast to this, how do you guys feel about Bilstein B12 suspension kits - it looks like a pretty tasty matched springs/dampers setup.

I personally dont need to set the world on fire, but lets face it - M-Sport suspension is shit, it skips about like a hamster thats been dropped on its head and its fucking awful over anything but the smoothest of surfaces!

BMW Performance suspension has left me scratching my head, because OEM or not, I am sure as hell not going to get BMW to fit it, so they wont warranty it anyway.

Matt
If you have enough money, Orb's set up is the best you will find. The guy engineered some of the components himself.

The problem with the Msport suspension is the damping is not strong enough especially fast rebound. Koni FSD shocks combine compliance with amazing road holding and less roll through corners. From what you've posted, this might be a good option for you,

Getting BMW perfomance parts fitted according to manufacturers specifications by a non franchised fitter cannot invalidate your warranty. This is against European Law and has been discussed on this site before.
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      09-17-2009, 04:06 PM   #5
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Just looked into B16 vs B12 and from what I can tell, the main difference is that the B16 is adjustable, either via ride control or like traditional coilovers.

The answer to the earlier question then, about why not the B16, is because I have no need for adjustment now or ever... I wouldn't have a bloody clue as to what I was doing or why!!

The koni kit I have heard is good, but only from our burger loving cousins - doesn't look likely I will see a uk review in the near future!!

Matt
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      09-18-2009, 10:33 AM   #6
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Bump... Tony!!

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      09-20-2009, 01:54 PM   #7
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I would hang fire as I think Bilstein are about to release some special UK E9x kits tuned specifically for UK roads instead of marble smooth continental roads.

I gather they'll be doing 2 versions, a fixed rate kit and a variable damper kit.

Can't tell you any more or i'll have to kill you

BTW, the M sport kit isn't that bad. The RFTs are more of a problem. But in order to make RFTs bareable BWM have ruined the damping.
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      09-20-2009, 02:14 PM   #8
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Interesting - how soon are we talking then?

Must have an idea!!

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      09-21-2009, 04:15 AM   #9
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Maybe in the next month or 3.

I was at Birds last Thursday and there was talk of the ongoing development taking place right now. I'm sure it will be a great kit.

Aside to this, EVO magazine are modding a 135i coupe and they will be using the BMW suspension kits. I'm sure they are a compromise but it will be interesting to read a review by a decent mag.

Used value of your car will be less affected by the BMW kit as buyers see it as OEM, and (mine at least) zero insurance increase for BMW kits.

Next issue of EVO will detail the first mods.

Watch this forum I'm sure for the Bilstein details........
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      09-21-2009, 07:39 AM   #10
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I have already seen a couple of 1 series reviews of the BMW kit so I am happy enough with that, just wondered about the three.

Still, another opinion would be welcomed from EVO.

Isn't it a bit late to be bringing a kit out for a car nearly five years old? Or do bilstein (probably correctly) think that a used car is cheaper and hence more attractive to nodding?

Matt
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      09-21-2009, 07:49 AM   #11
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They've had kits out for the E9x for ages, its just a new spring / damper combo for UK roads specifically which is new.

As they already make the E9x hardware, its only a matter of re-valving the dampers and some new springs.

But I suspect you're right, modding is mainly in the used market on out of warranty cars in general.
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      09-21-2009, 09:21 AM   #12
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I know they have had kits for ages lol, I just meant I wonder what's prompted the sudden decision to make a uk specific one?

Although without you even saying, I know the answer, and I expect I know who is 'responsible' for the R&D too!!

Matt
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      09-21-2009, 09:43 AM   #13
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Yeh, sorry, what I meant was as the regular kit is already out, it is easy (re cheap) to bring out a re-damped version of an existing kit, so I 'm sure bilstein would oblige to get some more sales.

can't think who might be pushing it though.........?
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      09-21-2009, 12:21 PM   #14
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I can, and I'll add my not inconsiderable weight to the cause!

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      09-21-2009, 06:12 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
I would hang fire as I think Bilstein are about to release some special UK E9x kits tuned specifically for UK roads instead of marble smooth continental roads.

I gather they'll be doing 2 versions, a fixed rate kit and a variable damper kit.
Ahem... you might well be right there, but it isn't Bilstein exactly who's developing or releasing the kits

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Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
Maybe in the next month or 3.

I was at Birds last Thursday and there was talk of the ongoing development taking place right now. I'm sure it will be a great kit.

Watch this forum I'm sure for the Bilstein details........



Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingKileak View Post
Isn't it a bit late to be bringing a kit out for a car nearly five years old? Or do bilstein (probably correctly) think that a used car is cheaper and hence more attractive to nodding?
Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
They've had kits out for the E9x for ages, its just a new spring / damper combo for UK roads specifically which is new.

As they already make the E9x hardware, its only a matter of re-valving the dampers and some new springs.

But I suspect you're right, modding is mainly in the used market on out of warranty cars in general.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingKileak View Post
I know they have had kits for ages lol, I just meant I wonder what's prompted the sudden decision to make a uk specific one?

Although without you even saying, I know the answer, and I expect I know who is 'responsible' for the R&D too!!

Matt
Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
Yeh, sorry, what I meant was as the regular kit is already out, it is easy (re cheap) to bring out a re-damped version of an existing kit, so I 'm sure bilstein would oblige to get some more sales.

can't think who might be pushing it though.........?


There aren't too many details as yet, but the following can be known...

1) Who's responsible? Um.....

2) The new kit is being developed privately by us, with consultation from one of the world's preeminent suspension gurus, specifically for the UK market, and the project will be using the services of Bilstein and Eibach to manufacture customised dampers and springs for E9x and E8x applications.

3) There will most likely be two suspension kits - one a fixed-rate damper/spring combination, and the other an adjustable coilover-style setup

4) Why a UK-specific suspension setup, and why only now when the E9x is almost 5 years old?

The answer is fairly simple - whilst Bilstein, Koni, KW et al make 'decent' suspension systems for our cars, they are all tested and setup in Germany. The roads in Europe are far far different to those over here in the UK - not only are the roads in Europe smoother, the type of tarmac is vastly different and there is much less use of concrete roads unlike here in the UK. Further more, the roads in the UK are predominantly rut-filled, off-cambered, pothole-ridden monstrosities fit for horses and not much more. Having a suspension system setup for European roads, even one tested on the Nurburgring, is not as suitable for UK roads.

Hence why we have been wanting for the last ten months to develop a totally bespoke suspension setup, with dampers that have the qualities needed to soothe the ride on the poor roads here, whilst delivering the body control and response required in high-performance driving on road or track. The systems being developed are road-biased as that is where the majority of cars are used. The PSS10 EDC system that I have on my car was a good system on which to judge the relative effectiveness of a respected German coilover setup on our domestic roads. Similarly the existing fixed-rate Hartge/Bilstein system on the Birds demo car gave another reference point from which to start our development.

Now that the E9x and E8x are five years into their life cycle and perhaps out of warranty, owners can look towards aftermarket products to replace and enhance their cars without fear of BMW attempting to void certain parts of warranty. Also as cars start getting close to 100,000 miles the OEM dampers will be coming to the end of their useful life, and a new lease of life in the running gear will be required.

5) When will the kits be available? Don't know - end of October perhaps? All depends on how everything goes.... Cost? No idea yet either... don't know if it's even commercially viable... depends on how much the development will cost!! (And Mike/Doughboy - cheap ??!! You pay the development costs then....!!!! )

6) Why can't I say more? Because I'm selfish and secretive and... it's because it's not official official yet, just unofficial official... maybe...

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      09-22-2009, 02:59 AM   #16
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Sorry, not cheap then but cheaper than a clean sheet kit..... errr maybe...

In fact I've forgot what we were talking about, its all gone, must have been a dream... made it all up.
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      09-22-2009, 04:09 AM   #17
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I'm in. Will a pile of cash and an E90 test car help?

Matt
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      09-22-2009, 07:00 AM   #18
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I subscribe to this too: "The roads in Europe are far far different to those over here...."
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      09-22-2009, 08:37 AM   #19
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Quote:
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I'm in. Will a pile of cash and an E90 test car help?

Matt

Not really, but thanks..! You'll need the cash anyway if and when this suspension package becomes available... allegedly...
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      09-22-2009, 09:07 AM   #20
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I hate waiting for things. Coz if it happens which it might not it might still not be cost effective, especially not against the fact I could already be rolling onnew suspension!!!

I suppose I could just get the PBMW kit which no one is venturing an opinion on!!

Sigh...

Matt
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      09-22-2009, 09:16 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingKileak View Post
I hate waiting for things. Coz if it happens which it might not it might still not be cost effective, especially not against the fact I could already be rolling onnew suspension!!!

I suppose I could just get the PBMW kit which no one is venturing an opinion on!!

Sigh...

Matt
If you hate waiting for things, then get the PBMW kit and be prepared to be very pissed off with it. I do have an opinion on it as I have driven both a 1er and 3er with the kit installed... I'll just say that it works much better on the 1er than the 3er, and is not all that much cop in the UK as again the suspension is really designed for the smoother tarmac in Europe.

Put it another way - I think you're better off staying with the regular MSport suspension than going and wasting your money on the PBMW.
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      09-22-2009, 01:48 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingKileak View Post
Hello,

Some of you might notice I recently reinvigorated the BMW Performance thread from ages ago...

In contrast to this, how do you guys feel about Bilstein B12 suspension kits - it looks like a pretty tasty matched springs/dampers setup.

I personally dont need to set the world on fire, but lets face it - M-Sport suspension is shit, it skips about like a hamster thats been dropped on its head and its fucking awful over anything but the smoothest of surfaces!

BMW Performance suspension has left me scratching my head, because OEM or not, I am sure as hell not going to get BMW to fit it, so they wont warranty it anyway.

Matt
Have you still got the run-flat's on?

If so, the best money you can spend on your car's suspenssion is non-run-flat tyres.

Transformed my car....
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