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      01-12-2017, 10:55 AM   #1
bmwbritpat
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No crank no start when warm

2007 335i hardtop convertible
Starts immediately each morning and runs great. On a typical shopping trip it will start perfectly a number of times, but eventually it fails to crank. My current fix is to shop some more,(typically 20 minutes) then it cranks and starts . No codes are being logged. The battery and starter have been replaced,
( i think in error ) by the previous owner.
Any insight into the possible causes of this intermittent failure would be greatly appreciated.
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      01-12-2017, 11:45 AM   #2
chau
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A few years ago I did the starter on my e30 and accidentally reversed the sensors (crank sensor?) and had the same problem as you.
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      01-12-2017, 03:07 PM   #3
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The CPS is the problem, get that replaced.
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      01-13-2017, 10:30 AM   #4
bmwbritpat
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Thanks for the input, is there a sensor for each camshaft ?
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      01-13-2017, 11:40 AM   #5
Corno_Baldwin
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Please correct me if I am wrong, but I think Underground6t9 was referring to the crankshaft position sensor (CKP).

I haven't personally experienced a Camshaft position sensor (CMP) cause an engine not to start - but anything is possible.

I was also thinking crankshaft position sensor - typically when these sensors are failing they work when cold and fail when they warm up either causing the engine to die while driving or a failure to start. The thing that confused me is that you mentioned a failure to crank - you push the button and nothing happens (did you mean start or fire?). If you push the button and the starter motor engages and the engine is turning over this is considered that it is "cranking". If you push the button and you get nothing I am thinking battery.
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      01-13-2017, 01:09 PM   #6
Underground6t9
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Yes that's correct I meant CKP
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      01-13-2017, 10:08 PM   #7
bmwbritpat
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i will replace the crankshaft position sensor, as its an easy fix. Let me be clear on the problem, the engine will not turn over when warm, when i wait approx 30 minutes the engine turns over and fires up immediately.
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      01-14-2017, 01:15 AM   #8
Corno_Baldwin
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So you press the start button and nothing happens - starter does not engage.

How old is the battery? I would be looking at some other things besides the CKP. A CKP wouldn't prevent an engine from turning over, it just wouldn't start or the engine would die while you were driving it.

Manual car? Check clutch switch?
Auto car? - brake switch? Neutral safety switch?

Just some thoughts.
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      01-14-2017, 10:16 PM   #9
bmwbritpat
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The battery is new. The car runs perfectly, used it today. Started it this morning, drove 15 miles, parked for 2 hours, started it up and drove 15 miles, parked and went in store for 15 minutes,tried to start, but no crank no start, left it for 1 hour, and it started and ran perfectly.
Chau, you mentioned sensors being crossed over when replacing starter, which 2 sensors were you referring to. ?
Help, help , help !!!!
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      01-15-2017, 01:08 PM   #10
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I don't think you have sensors reversed. If the CKP wasn't in the right spot, which I don't think is possible, the engine would just turn over when pressing the start button but it would NOT start up. The CKP tells the computer when to fire the coils, injectors and to tell the Low Pressure Fuel Pump to keep working. If the CKP loses its signal the LPFP stops running, and there is no coil or injector timing. Also, if you didn't have the CKP plugged in correctly the computer would throw a code for a lack of CKP signal.

Take a video of what is happening next time, post it on YouTube or on here.
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      01-28-2017, 06:00 PM   #11
bmwbritpat
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I replaced the crankshaft position sensor and the 335i now runs like a new one. Many thanks to you all for your input. Special thanks to Underground6t9 for your advice to change the CPS, I would never have guessed a faulty CPS would stop the engine from cranking. The sensor failure must have been related to engine oil temperature.
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      01-28-2017, 08:01 PM   #12
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Thanks for the update! I'm glad you got it sorted.

I too am surprised that a faulty CKP would prevent the engine from cranking as it has nothing to do with the starter motor. My experience with sensors is that when they start going bad they fail when they get hot or are very cold. Related to oil temp - sure, but it was on its way out and the heat just helped it along. Glad you didn't get caught in an unsafe situation. How many miles were on your car? My dad has a few Mercedes and the CKP sensors have gone out on all three of his cars - almost seems like a maintenance item at 10 years for his cars, all had various mileage from 46K to 137K.

EDIT: At least looking through the wiring diagrams I can't see any thing in common with the CKP and starter except the DME. Half tempted to unplug mine and see what happens, I'm just curious is all. Most of my experiences have been driving down the road and engine just quits, or a failure to start when warm. Starter motor worked regardless - which on cars that you can either flip the key to start or press a button would just run the starter motor - most people would probably just let the starter motor burn out and not turning the key back to off or pressing the start/stop button again. Maybe that is a fail safe to keep the starter from just running non-stop and burning up if the CKP doesn't have a signal to allow the coils to fire and fuel to flow. Just a thought, I have no idea what is happening in the DME.

Last edited by Corno_Baldwin; 01-28-2017 at 08:59 PM.
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      02-07-2017, 08:48 PM   #13
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the "no crank no start " has returned after 2 weeks of driving around town without any issues. After approx 5 stops today, on return from a 10 minute stop, no crank returned .
Waited 40 minutes to allow for cool down, and the engine cranked and started and ran perfectly. No codes have been logged !!!
Help !!! Help !!! this is getting old. WONDERFUL CAR failrly reliable ?? .
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      02-07-2017, 11:14 PM   #14
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I would be looking at everything involved with the start circuit.

Brake pedal switch/clutch switch/neutral safety switch - whatever your car has if it is automatic or manual trans - this would be a failsafe not allowing the engine to crank if in gear. If it fails - it doesn't complete the starter circuit.

Perhaps start button is failing? In tank Fuel pump? Fuel pump relay/fuse? Have you checked Voltage and/or CCA of battery - I know you said it was recently replaced, but check it.

These are all just ideas.

Easy way to remember what to check when diagnosing "no start" - FAST

Fuel
Air
Spark
Timing - easier to check on older cars of course


Take a video and post it here or YouTube - show us the issue. Also, what are you using to scan for codes?
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      02-09-2017, 10:57 AM   #15
bmwbritpat
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Corno, thanks for the input. My diagnostic cable is from Bavarian Technic. Today i intend to clear all codes, then cycle the car 5 mins on and 5 mins off at my home to see if i can reproduce the failure in a more controlled environment. If i can reproduce the failure i will look for any codes that have been triggered. I sense that temperature is causing the failure, we are in Ft Meyers FL, weather is between 70 and 80 most days. The temporary fix with the new CPS occurred when we had a few days of weather between 50 and 60 deg
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      02-09-2017, 07:10 PM   #16
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Does it crank but does not start or the car does not crank at all.
If it does crank but does not start:
I would check the relay that controls the fuel pump.
I had a prelude that did the same thing.
It would start when cold without fail but when the car is warmed up and say I stop to get gas or hydrate myself at liquior store the car would crank but would not start. I than had to let the relay cool down for 10 mins. And than it would start. Cold solder on relay caused this.

If no crank at all look for a relay for the starter or any thing related to starter. Check all starter connection. I know thats hard cus you have to remove intake manifold.... Good luck.
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      02-09-2017, 11:06 PM   #17
bmwbritpat
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it doesn't turn over at all when the start button is pushed, later when engine / system has cooled down the engine starts and runs like a BMW
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      02-10-2017, 01:30 PM   #18
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If it does not crank at all, you have some sort of electrical sensor issue that is telling the computer not to allow the starter to crank. Neutral safety switch, crankshaft position sensor, etc...
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      02-10-2017, 05:04 PM   #19
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I bet you have a cold solder on a relay.
Ive had it before on honda.
I wish I can tell you which relay.....
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      02-14-2017, 08:17 AM   #20
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I had the same type of problem on my 325i. When the engine was at normal temp (after long drive or short hops around town) was when I had the same symptom, let it set for a while and then it would start. On mine the starter has been turning slowly for the first couple of turns, then at full speed. Last week the starter failed altogether.
Check out all the other thing others have suggested but be ready for a new starter.
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      07-09-2017, 11:23 AM   #21
bmwbritpat
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I replaced the starter,and the" no crank no start" dissappeared. The starter in the car was a DURALAST ( autozone ), which was only 2 months, the solenoid failed when it warmed up. I replaced it with a BOSCH, now starts first time every time.
Thanks for all of your advice and help.
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      08-17-2017, 09:17 PM   #22
Jürgen70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwbritpat View Post
I replaced the starter,and the" no crank no start" dissappeared. The starter in the car was a DURALAST ( autozone ), which was only 2 months, the solenoid failed when it warmed up. I replaced it with a BOSCH, now starts first time every time.
Thanks for all of your advice and help.
How you going with the new starter bro?, i have the same problem....
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