E90Post
 


GT Haus
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > Regional Forums > UK > UK Technical Forum > M3 track control arms on 335d, help!



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-31-2012, 03:20 PM   #1
NJ 1161
Major
NJ 1161's Avatar
20
Rep
1,089
Posts

 
Drives: 335D M3
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

M3 track control arms on 335d, help!

Recently had a big brake kit fitted and getting some vibrations through steering wheel under heavey braking. Supplier thinks it may be weak bushes/ track arms on front suspension, with the force of the 8 pots and 380mm discs too much for the arms.

So, started looking at front arms and found loads of threads (predominatlty usa) with loads of different terms which has left me confused??

So, can i buy oem m3 track arms, and just replace. Do i need 'tensions arms' aswell (not sure what these are?)?? What are the advantages and costs?? Best place to buy??

Anyone put in 'laymans' terms to help me out!!

Anyone in Uk done?? Point me in right direction. Thanks
Appreciate 0
      03-31-2012, 03:57 PM   #2
Hotcoupe
Major General
Hotcoupe's Avatar
United Kingdom
70
Rep
6,105
Posts

 
Drives: Don't know yet!
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
The parts you require are the front wishbones and tension struts.

Tension struts (part no's):
Left - 31102283575
Right - 31102283576

Wishbones (Part no's):
Left - 31102283577
Right - 31102283578

Diagram:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...01&hg=31&fg=05

You dealer will obviously have the parts,as will:
http://www.bmminiparts.com/

Of the two bmminiparts will be cheaper,but if you mention that you can get them cheaper to your your dealer they should match the price.

From memory I think the parts will be 300.00+.
Fitting is fairly straightforward and a good set of tools and a degree of DIY ability will enable you to fit,alternatively a good Indy will do it.

I've done the above and it sharpens up the front end a treat
Appreciate 0
      03-31-2012, 05:26 PM   #3
doughboy
Major General
doughboy's Avatar
United Kingdom
85
Rep
6,384
Posts

 
Drives: E91 335i Sold.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: UK

iTrader: (2)

I've fitted those bits, but i don't think they're the cause of your vibes.

Vibrations after fitting brakes will 99% be down to the brakes only. Either disc run out / warp or hub surface contamination.

Standard brakes can trigger ABS, So a bbk can't really apply any more braking loading to suspension than standard brakes, certainly not going to damage the car.

The tyres are the limiting factor for brake forces on suspension.

Don't change any suspension bits, fix the brake issue first.

Are they a reputable BBK?
__________________
335i gone E63 AMG here at last!

Last edited by doughboy; 04-01-2012 at 02:21 AM.
Appreciate 0
      03-31-2012, 07:06 PM   #4
Nigelo
Lieutenant
7
Rep
528
Posts

 
Drives: E92 335i se
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Northern Ireland

iTrader: (1)

Can you fit the wishbones without adding the tension struts if you are only looking to add some negative camber to the front?
Appreciate 0
      04-01-2012, 02:15 AM   #5
doughboy
Major General
doughboy's Avatar
United Kingdom
85
Rep
6,384
Posts

 
Drives: E91 335i Sold.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: UK

iTrader: (2)

I wouldn't have thought so Nigelo.

a) they're longer so the tension struts need to be longer also to maintain wheel position and castor.

b) the M3 bits have solid rubber bushes as opposed to the squidy hydraulic bushes that other models have, so might upset things having half your arms with different bushes.
__________________
335i gone E63 AMG here at last!
Appreciate 0
      04-01-2012, 12:40 PM   #6
NJ 1161
Major
NJ 1161's Avatar
20
Rep
1,089
Posts

 
Drives: 335D M3
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Thanks Hotcoupe.

Doughboy- It's more of a steering wheel wobble under very hard braking. Rest of time fine and a very good quality kit and good value for money. The kit was bought from a relatively new BBK suppiler but I believe its the same parts as Alcon and ksport. Still very expensive however. Supplier states had a similar issue on another e92 owner and this is what they believe the fault??

Can you test run out/ warp/ contamination??? I have stated this is what i believe the problem is but they don't agree.

'Can you fit the wishbones without adding the tension struts if you are only looking to add some negative camber to the front? '

I thought i read in one of the many thread i've read on this you could?! I was kind of hoping you could.

Any thoughts on these as value alternative??
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-3-COUP...item45fd59000b
Appreciate 0
      04-01-2012, 02:08 PM   #7
doughboy
Major General
doughboy's Avatar
United Kingdom
85
Rep
6,384
Posts

 
Drives: E91 335i Sold.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: UK

iTrader: (2)

Re just changing 1/2 the arms, maybe you can, i was just thinking from a logical pov.

If you google 'measuring disc runout' you'll get video guides and all sorts.

Mine has a steering wheel wobble under hard braking too, the discs are shagged. Worse when they're cold / cool as they're warming up unevenly and therefore expand unevenly.

I doubt your kit has the same parts as an Alcon kit (unless it is an Alcon kit), they are shit hot, many say better than the AP kits, and 3k for the front setup alone.

You can't put Alcon and K sport in the same category either! A bit like Bolinger & Buckfast
__________________
335i gone E63 AMG here at last!

Last edited by doughboy; 04-01-2012 at 02:23 PM.
Appreciate 0
      04-01-2012, 03:00 PM   #8
NJ 1161
Major
NJ 1161's Avatar
20
Rep
1,089
Posts

 
Drives: 335D M3
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

See the logic. Be good if someone can confirm if can be fitted without rest of set up, as could make cheap upgrade at 35 a side (if any good) and fitting at home.

My steering wobble gets worse as hot, so opposite to yours. I wondered if as more heat got into disc/pads gave more friction and lead to my issue??
Kit cost 2.5k (inc import) for full front and rear so not cheap but in terms of full set up not bad value. Hoping for Bolinger at buckfast price! I may of meant alliance, k2, not alcon BTW!

Last edited by NJ 1161; 04-05-2012 at 02:49 AM.
Appreciate 0
      04-05-2012, 03:05 AM   #9
NJ 1161
Major
NJ 1161's Avatar
20
Rep
1,089
Posts

 
Drives: 335D M3
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

In answer to just fitting m3 control arms got this response from tuner Motorsport.




Hi Nick,


No, there is no need to do both.

The M3 control arms is just more negative camber, see here:

So, guess it ok.
Appreciate 0
      04-05-2012, 04:11 AM   #10
idnan
Major
idnan's Avatar
England
19
Rep
1,472
Posts

 
Drives: Alpine White 335i
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Birmingham

iTrader: (9)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ 1161 View Post
Any thoughts on these as value alternative??
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-3-COUP...item45fd59000b
Those aren't m3 arms, check out the part numbers with realoem and you'll see they correspond to the ordinary e9x part

PS, did you get your 335d from Birmingham?

OT, Doughboy have you done the m3 rear suspension arms?
Appreciate 0
      04-05-2012, 04:15 PM   #11
doughboy
Major General
doughboy's Avatar
United Kingdom
85
Rep
6,384
Posts

 
Drives: E91 335i Sold.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: UK

iTrader: (2)

Idnan, no I only did the rear subframe bushes, never got round to the rear arms, not sure about the benefits.

How about you? (sorry OT)
__________________
335i gone E63 AMG here at last!
Appreciate 0
      04-05-2012, 05:38 PM   #12
m1bjr
LSD - No, you're not seeing things
m1bjr's Avatar
United Kingdom
37
Rep
3,313
Posts

 
Drives: RS250 CUP
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Somerset UK

iTrader: (4)

Send a message via MSN to m1bjr
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ 1161 View Post
See the logic. Be good if someone can confirm if can be fitted without rest of set up, as could make cheap upgrade at 35 a side (if any good) and fitting at home.

My steering wobble gets worse as hot, so opposite to yours. I wondered if as more heat got into disc/pads gave more friction and lead to my issue??
Kit cost 2.5k (inc import) for full front and rear so not cheap but in terms of full set up not bad value. Hoping for Bolinger at buckfast price! I may of meant alliance, k2, not alcon BTW!
You are barking up the wrong tree.

WHAT DID YOU MEASURE THE DISC AND HUB RUNOUT AS?

Are they two piece discs, alloy hub bell with bolt on discs?

You can't just bolt on huge discs and hope all is well.
Until you check the runout with a DTI you are pissing in the wind.
And wasting money.
Once you put some miles on them and it gets worse, which it will, the supplier will likely wash hands of it all.
And come back and ask why you didnt check the runout and compensate / repair accordingly.
FWIW my hubs had a little runout, and when you bolt a bloody great 'washer' like that to it the wobble at the outer edge is HUGE.
HTH?

Steve
__________________
Appreciate 0
      04-06-2012, 03:10 AM   #13
doughboy
Major General
doughboy's Avatar
United Kingdom
85
Rep
6,384
Posts

 
Drives: E91 335i Sold.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: UK

iTrader: (2)

+ 1 steve, just what I said in post 3!
__________________
335i gone E63 AMG here at last!
Appreciate 0
      04-06-2012, 09:21 AM   #14
335rocks
Lieutenant
United Kingdom
7
Rep
520
Posts

 
Drives: E92 335i M Sport
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotcoupe View Post
From memory I think the parts will be 300.00+.
Having just done this recently then prices have changed a lot here. The prices for the wishbones doubled a year ago so the wishbones and tension struts are now 112.50 + VAT each. You also need to buy the rod to regulate the headlights.

So the complete parts list looks like this: (re-using most of Ian's post)

Tension struts (part no's):
Left - 31102283575
Right - 31102283576

Wishbones (Part no's):
Left - 31102283577
Right - 31102283578

Regulation Rod:
Rod - 37142283867 11.59+VAT
Hex nut - 07129904876 0.28+VAT

Diagram:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...01&hg=31&fg=05

So all in you are looking at 554.24 Incl. VAT retail for this + fitting and alignment.

However as said by everyone else, you are barking up the wrong tree. If anything fitting these will probably make you feel any vibration a lot more. If no runout checks were done when these were fitted then you're just asking for trouble and this will only get worse over time. E.g. there could be dirt on the mating surface, hub may have some runout etc. With a 380mm disc even the smallest runout can be felt. E.g. on the AP Racing BBK you have the option to rotate the disc 180 degrees to see if that improves the runout. However without checking you have no idea if it's the disc, hub or fitting that's causing this. If the runout exceeds max allowed tolerance and the disc is used, then the supplier can quite easily argue that the disc was straight and other factors cause the uneven wear.

What kit is this and what pads are you using? Stoptech?
Appreciate 0
      04-06-2012, 12:10 PM   #15
idnan
Major
idnan's Avatar
England
19
Rep
1,472
Posts

 
Drives: Alpine White 335i
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Birmingham

iTrader: (9)

Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
Idnan, no I only did the rear subframe bushes, never got round to the rear arms, not sure about the benefits.

How about you? (sorry OT)
I've got a full m3 rear subframe+arms to play with so will probably fit them as the car was low mileage.

Haven't done the fronts but will probably get them done at the same time.
Appreciate 0
      05-08-2012, 07:56 AM   #16
adzpz
Registered
0
Rep
2
Posts

 
Drives: 335d E91
Join Date: May 2012
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Did you manage to fix this as i'm thinking of getting some PB brakes for my 335d? How do you rate them now you have had them for a little while?
Appreciate 0
      05-14-2012, 01:34 PM   #17
NJ 1161
Major
NJ 1161's Avatar
20
Rep
1,089
Posts

 
Drives: 335D M3
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Thanks guys for all the great technical support.

Been getting married/ honeymooning for last 3/4 weeks so not been looking at car much.

The supplier has sent me a set of new front discs so will change and see what happens. If it dosn't turn out to be them then still got a spare set for cost of postage.

M1bjr-I did google testing run out, but seemed a bit complicated for my limited testing abilities!! 2 piece disc with alloys hub btw. Will look at getting run out tested prof if no joy. I did read you write up on your replacement of your hubs.

335 rocks-Kit used is PB brakes.

adzpz= been great generally. Dan's always quick to email. Good quality kit to my untrained eye, great looks, great performance and always good comms. Just this minor prob but i will update once resolved, and confident supplier will support until resolved.

Thanks again all
Appreciate 0
      09-02-2012, 12:47 PM   #18
NJ 1161
Major
NJ 1161's Avatar
20
Rep
1,089
Posts

 
Drives: 335D M3
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Ok, so went to brake place and they said they couldn't measure run out as drilled and grooved and wouldn't be accurate. Said they could skim on the hub however if I wanted.

Any way managed to pick up some m3 lower control arms, and had them fitted along with coilovers, however drives horribly !!

Now they measured tracking and said miles out which is fairly obvious and this is why it drives so badly.

Going back tomorrow to be finished and tracked.

So question is, 335d with m3 lower control arms, what track/ toe should I be asking for?

The track arms give me neg camber so am I asking for different settings?
Appreciate 0
      09-02-2012, 03:21 PM   #19
Nigelo
Lieutenant
7
Rep
528
Posts

 
Drives: E92 335i se
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Northern Ireland

iTrader: (1)

Flip, you're brave driving around without an alignment after getting the arms fitted - I googled the nearest alignment centre and drove straight there as the steering tried to dive towards every kerb!

I had mine aligned to the standard spec for a 335i - the front camber is set pretty much at a fixed setting dictated by the suspension parts.
Appreciate 0
      09-02-2012, 03:47 PM   #20
NJ 1161
Major
NJ 1161's Avatar
20
Rep
1,089
Posts

 
Drives: 335D M3
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Brave, stupid, who knows! So if camber set, what's making it drive so bad? Is it toe in/ out?

Steering dosnt return and feels like driving against resistance all the time.

Only done a couple of miles in it btw!
__________________
Appreciate 0
      09-02-2012, 05:35 PM   #21
Dave_3
Colonel
Dave_3's Avatar
Scotland
43
Rep
2,808
Posts

 
Drives: F32 430D sDrive Msport
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: CH / SCO

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ 1161 View Post
Brave, stupid, who knows! So if camber set, what's making it drive so bad? Is it toe in/ out?

Steering dosnt return and feels like driving against resistance all the time.

Only done a couple of miles in it btw!
I'm guessing that you will be toed in/out a lot more.

Think about it, you have just extended your lower arm to increase camber with using the M3 lower arms - yet your track rod ends are set on the rack for your old arms.

Depending on where your track-rod end meets the strut (before or behind the strut : toe in/out) you have really altered the toe.

D.
__________________
Escort Mk1 RS2000 (2.1 2x44IDFS, BVH, Kent FR32, 5spd, 180 BHP) : Fully Loaded F32 430D M Sport sDrive : Previously Full-Spec 335D E92 2006 : Capri MK1 full rebuild in progress

Appreciate 0
      09-03-2012, 02:37 AM   #22
doughboy
Major General
doughboy's Avatar
United Kingdom
85
Rep
6,384
Posts

 
Drives: E91 335i Sold.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: UK

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ 1161 View Post
Brave, stupid, who knows! So if camber set, what's making it drive so bad? Is it toe in/ out?

Steering dosnt return and feels like driving against resistance all the time.

Only done a couple of miles in it btw!
As the M3 arms are longer, the toe will be altered a LOT! The steering rods connect infront of the hub, so extended track will give a lot of toe in.

The front camber isn't adjustable anyway, so they'll have to leave that. You will have about 1/2 to 1 deg more neg camber than before, which is good.

You need a full 4 wheel alignment, if you like, (i did) ask them to set it to M3 coupe settings (on our cars you can only adjust the front toe and rear toe / camber anyway) M3 settings transformed the way mine handled - and its free!

Don't let them tell you they need to adjust the front camber or castor - they will have to knock out the strut top locating pins and you'll have trouble for ever more if they do that.

All non Non M3s have a stupid amounts of factory rear toe-in, this dulls steering and makes the car more 'stable' (i.e. it wants to go straight ahead)

Go for M3 settings above, which will set equal, but much smaller, toe-in all round.
__________________
335i gone E63 AMG here at last!

Last edited by doughboy; 09-03-2012 at 02:45 AM.
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:22 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST