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      05-25-2012, 06:09 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by Eccentrik bm View Post
My local dealer has said that the warranty will become void if the OBD port is moved. I still would do it though for my own piece of mind.
Yes I can't see a problem with that as all you need to do is put things back to normal before the car has to go in to the stealers for any work to be done, though they probably know already, as this being a public forum.
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      05-25-2012, 10:57 AM   #222
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I've booked my car for a service. The SA was aware of the theft problem and seemed unbothered that I've disabled the OBD port.
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      05-27-2012, 03:20 PM   #223
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I just leave 1/4 of a tank of fuel in mine at all times - if it gets nicked theyll barely make it to the end of the road
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      05-27-2012, 04:17 PM   #224
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yes my cuz 535d 2009 plate was stolen from house in gants hill last week :-(
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      06-01-2012, 10:18 AM   #225
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Interesting read!

I've been following this thread on PH:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/t...eys&mid=220305

One of the latest posts is very interesting!


BMW 635d's most certainly do exist and are being targeed. Sorry I got that wrong - it's confusing because some of the datasets I have show engine size as 3.0 which obviously the 635d's are. 730d's are being nicked too.

The crux of the problem is this:
I have at my disposal a huge database containing all this information. I am not able to link to it (it is not pulic domain) and I cannot refer directly to it any more than a doctor could refer to medical notes. For example I would never dream of posting information as sepcific as Band0 seemed to be willing to.
I also do not have access to this database when I'm posting. I am forced to refer to it from memory - it's not easy to recall perfect details when I'm talking about literally hundreds of reports.
I'm also not in a position to have a 'strategic overview' like many claim to in this thread. My information is from a relatively limited geographical area but a large sample size if that makes sense.

Believe me or choose not to, but I am fairly uniquely positioned in the centre of this issue in that: I am dealing with muliple instances first hand (so not a lone victim telling of their particular theft) I am not affiliated to BMW in any way but I just so happen to know a guy who actually works on their CAS systems as a design engineer so speaking to him about what BMW know has been very interesting to say the least. They are not as blind to the problem as they may seem and while some of their public responses are indeed laughable they are though necessity trying to keep a lid on the situation.

Some facts for you to ponder from my experience. Sorry, no links to corroborate this as none of it is in the public domain and I could obviously have made it all up.

Roughly 2/3 rds of thefts involve broken glass at scene or on recovery of car (sample size ~300 vehicles) It appears that high tech methods are NOT routinely employed to gain access to these cars. Accurate lock drilling/pulling is also happening but less frequently. Also in a minority of cases, often involving cars with comfort entry, there is no clear indication how access was gained. There is credible evidence that radio jammers may be used to block a key fob from remotely locking a car, or to disruupt the 'comfort entry' proximity system. This causes victims to walk away leaving their vehicles unlocked unwittingly and they will swear blind they locked their car as they always do.
BMW's are the only premium cars being stolen without keys in any significant number. Thefts outnumber the next most stolen premium marque about 3:1 (audis - key burglaries largely). Obviously this is meaningless without relative 'population sizes'. Audis and Mercs seem immune to "high tech" keyless theft. There are handfuls of other "keyless" thefts across all marques but these generally shake down to being the victim being mistaken (or on occasion lying to cover up the fact they left their keys in the ignition and thus invalidating their insurance) or to cars being lifted for parking infractions and then the reports not being properly resolved. Some very old cars are obviously still hotwireable. It's safe to say that in my experience NO criminal gang routinely lifts these cars on recovery trucks. Sheds towed by tinkers for scrap - yes. BMW's lifted off the street onto recovery trucks? No.
Recovery rates are very low at under 20% for BMW's vs over 50% across the board for all makes/models. Believe it or not if you get your car stolen you have a good chance of getting it back if it's not a BMW.
The device mentioned earlier in this thread doesn't code the key to the car, it codes the car to the key - it adds the key to the CAS as an accepted key which then opens and starts the car as normal. You can code one key to multiple cars in this manner. The key is in effect "solid state" and can't be re-coded or given a new identity, and doesn't need to be.
It is almost exclusively M-sport trim vehicles being taken. Diesels are very commonly stolen, along with all points of the model ranges. Premium specs are seemingly targeted like 335i's, 335d's but again without knowing the relative sales numbers its hard to know what's significant. 120d's, 5 series of all engine variants are going just as regularly so it's by no means only big engined or the most powerful cars being sought by thieves (but nice trim and spec ones and left hand drives do certainly seem to be more nickable)
Vehicles 2006 to present are affected, so long as it's an 'electronic' key without a physical ignition barrel. 2006-2009 seem worst hit. Again one assumes becuase it's parts demand driving theft and there's less parts demand for brand new cars.
What we AREN'T seeing is M-cars being targeted. Very few M5/M6/M3's are going. One assumes that this is because there isn't parts demand for them abroad, where smaller engines and diesels are far more common. This is of course conjecture. Being petrol heads I guess we assume that if you could stroll off with any BMW you'd pick the most potent. These are organised gangs and they steal for profit, not joyriding or fun.
X5's and X6's are being stolen - they're more likely to be recovered and they appear to be staying in one piece and going for export to Africa, whereas the bulk of "saloon" cars nicked appear to be broken for panels and parts very quickly and so recovery chances are lower.
It is also a big problem in Germany and the rest of the continent, the UK is not alone.
There is no suggestion BMW dealers/garages are involved - they don't need to be. You don't need loads of spare keys because one can be used over and over again. Remember, they're driving these cars off to be broken, not re-selling them whole. Finding a BMW to steal appears as simple as trawling streets/ carparks with high density of BMW's i.e. affluent areas and taking your pick of one on the desired list. Why try harder? On occasion there's indication specific cars may have been targeted for some reason -perhaps they're on that weeks shopping list - but overwhelmingly they are being taken from streets, drives and open spaces rather than within garages/secure or hidden areas.
So, take it or leave it..... I've seen the data first hand, I've spoken directly to people who've had their cars stolen, I've spoken to people with a strategic nationwide overview of the problems from a number of angles. No one is in any doubt it's a big issue but with corporate reputations at stake no one should be surprised that companies aren't shouting failings from the rooftop. They need to solve the problem before it blows up and this becomes even more common knowledge - although I'd suggest the stable door is wide open and the horse fast disappearing over the horizon now.

Sorry, I nearly forgot the important bit, which is of course the Crime Prevention advice:
1) Park somewhere overlooked and garage the car if you can.
2) Disable the OBD port in some cunning way.
3) Use additional physical security such as a steering wheel lock.
4) Consider additional and aftermarket immobilisers/trackers. Something perhaps that cuts fuel and is independant of the keyed ignition. Sadly I think this kind of security may become an necessity from an insurance point of view as time wears on.
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      06-01-2012, 10:56 AM   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyprio View Post
Yes I can't see a problem with that as all you need to do is put things back to normal before the car has to go in to the stealers for any work to be done, though they probably know already, as this being a public forum.
Thank you for your email.

Please be assured that your comments have been noted by ourselves and I am sorry to read that you remain dissatisfied with this situation. I can only reiterate that currently this situation is being investigated.

With regard to your enquiry as to whether you can reject the car; I can advise that we, BMW UK, believe that the car is fit for purpose and that we would not support the rejection of the car under these circumstances. With regard to moving the OPD port; I can advise that we, BMW UK, would not recommend this but it is of course your personal decision as to whether you choose to go ahead with this. I can confirm that the warranty on the car would not be invalidated under these circumstances, unless a fault arose as a direct result of the modification.

I am sorry that you have had further cause to contact us under such circumstances.

Yours sincerely,

BMW UK
Harkan Suleyman
Customer Service Manager B1-UK-Z-2
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      06-01-2012, 11:26 AM   #227
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for all those thinking that putting a stoplock on the car will deter scumbags .. think again


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=J1QtoCDXyVs

Can even do it with bic pen !
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      06-03-2012, 10:25 AM   #228
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That's the old lock ... the new version is not like that ...
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      06-03-2012, 08:35 PM   #229
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just to clarify...

Hi all, sadly my first post will have to be about the safety of my car but I think this thread has been very helpful.
After just reading through it I just want to get some definitive answers so that I can move forward in securing my car.

1) if I was to contact someone at CookFerry they will be aware of this problem and have a possible fix / major deterrent for this?

2) Someone from securemycar.co.uk could do the same?
(I've been interested in the blackjax system for a while now)

3) Forum member 'magic77', you've created your own fix, could you possibly do the same thing for me, how much would you charge?

I'm not technical minded with cars, although it sounds easy to add an extension cable, I'd rather someone with experience carry out the job.

I've worked hard to get my car, the last thing I was expecting was to find out how easy it is to lose it.

Any help would be great guys.
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      06-04-2012, 02:51 AM   #230
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I've been putting a Disklok on my car for a while now, I originally bought it 6 years ago for my DC-2 Integra R which am sure you could nick in about 30seconds just with a screwdriver handy. Takes me 30 seconds to put the Disklok on and it's as good a visual deterrent as any. But unfortunatly at the end of the day I think if someone really wants your car they'll get it, just a case of how far they are willing to go...

Last edited by gangzoom; 06-04-2012 at 02:59 AM.
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      06-05-2012, 10:08 AM   #231
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Agreed ^^ if they really want the car, which most obviously do then all you can do is slow them down, however some will stop at nothing, would you rather they took your car & it be recovered majority of the time or have them in your home, with your family...
I've heard & read alot about it being easier to break into the house & get the keys rather then silently steal it

You can always get another car, whats more important...

Granted this is all about minimizing the risk, but i think by doing so you maybe increasing the risk to your family

Not my experience, but a very close friend
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      06-05-2012, 10:29 AM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleBlack View Post
Hi all, sadly my first post will have to be about the safety of my car but I think this thread has been very helpful.
After just reading through it I just want to get some definitive answers so that I can move forward in securing my car.

1) if I was to contact someone at CookFerry they will be aware of this problem and have a possible fix / major deterrent for this?

2) Someone from securemycar.co.uk could do the same?
(I've been interested in the blackjax system for a while now)

3) Forum member 'magic77', you've created your own fix, could you possibly do the same thing for me, how much would you charge?

I'm not technical minded with cars, although it sounds easy to add an extension cable, I'd rather someone with experience carry out the job.

I've worked hard to get my car, the last thing I was expecting was to find out how easy it is to lose it.

Any help would be great guys.
I contacted Cooksferry - they can put a coded plug on the OPD - but that involves cutting wires - not a good thing in my view.

The Blackjax is an accessory to the CLIFFORD AvantGuard 5.1 - all that will cost at least 550 to buy plus installation so say 750.
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      06-05-2012, 12:46 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by fulcrum View Post
I contacted Cooksferry - they can put a coded plug on the OPD - but that involves cutting wires - not a good thing in my view.

The Blackjax is an accessory to the CLIFFORD AvantGuard 5.1 - all that will cost at least 550 to buy plus installation so say 750.
Yes it is part of that alarm system.However,you can have the Blackjax system,properly installed as a standalone unit for 3-400.
Well worth it in my opinion...
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      06-05-2012, 01:56 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by Billyray911 View Post
Yes it is part of that alarm system.However,you can have the Blackjax system,properly installed as a standalone unit for 3-400.
Well worth it in my opinion...
Thanks will have to look into that
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      06-05-2012, 02:24 PM   #235
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After talking to few people and reading commments on here I just find cutting the wires a risk not worth taking. Last thing you want is ECU issues when coding or fault finding and dealer throwing the warranty away.

Way I see it a relocaiton is ideal into a location thats maybe locable even.

If its not where it should be they cant code a new key if they look harder the alarm will go off. Should keep your can on the spot if not than no other fixt will work
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      06-07-2012, 07:42 AM   #236
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Update on the Cooksferry Engineering fix which I posted about.

BMW have been able to read the OBD port during a service.
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      06-07-2012, 01:49 PM   #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaishang
Update on the Cooksferry Engineering fix which I posted about.

BMW have been able to read the OBD port during a service.
Good good. Things are looking up!
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      06-07-2012, 02:06 PM   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaishang View Post
Update on the Cooksferry Engineering fix which I posted about.

BMW have been able to read the OBD port during a service.
Did there fix involve cutting any wires?

Did you get any negative feedback from your dealer?
Were they aware of the security problems with certain models of BMW cars?Or did they just shrug their shoulders?
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      06-08-2012, 02:05 AM   #239
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Originally Posted by Hotcoupe View Post
Did there fix involve cutting any wires?

Did you get any negative feedback from your dealer?
Were they aware of the security problems with certain models of BMW cars?Or did they just shrug their shoulders?
Yes - see the other thread - the dealer was so outraged they fitted the wrong tyres to my car to pi$$ me off!

No, dealer was ok with it, it was a non-issue. SA was aware of BMWs getting nicked.

This does involve cutting wires.
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      06-08-2012, 02:29 AM   #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotcoupe View Post
I've been following this thread on PH:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/t...eys&mid=220305

One of the latest posts is very interesting!


BMW 635d's most certainly do exist and are being targeed. Sorry I got that wrong - it's confusing because some of the datasets I have show engine size as 3.0 which obviously the 635d's are. 730d's are being nicked too.

The crux of the problem is this:
I have at my disposal a huge database containing all this information. I am not able to link to it (it is not pulic domain) and I cannot refer directly to it any more than a doctor could refer to medical notes. For example I would never dream of posting information as sepcific as Band0 seemed to be willing to.
I also do not have access to this database when I'm posting. I am forced to refer to it from memory - it's not easy to recall perfect details when I'm talking about literally hundreds of reports.
I'm also not in a position to have a 'strategic overview' like many claim to in this thread. My information is from a relatively limited geographical area but a large sample size if that makes sense.

Believe me or choose not to, but I am fairly uniquely positioned in the centre of this issue in that: I am dealing with muliple instances first hand (so not a lone victim telling of their particular theft) I am not affiliated to BMW in any way but I just so happen to know a guy who actually works on their CAS systems as a design engineer so speaking to him about what BMW know has been very interesting to say the least. They are not as blind to the problem as they may seem and while some of their public responses are indeed laughable they are though necessity trying to keep a lid on the situation.

Some facts for you to ponder from my experience. Sorry, no links to corroborate this as none of it is in the public domain and I could obviously have made it all up.

Roughly 2/3 rds of thefts involve broken glass at scene or on recovery of car (sample size ~300 vehicles) It appears that high tech methods are NOT routinely employed to gain access to these cars. Accurate lock drilling/pulling is also happening but less frequently. Also in a minority of cases, often involving cars with comfort entry, there is no clear indication how access was gained. There is credible evidence that radio jammers may be used to block a key fob from remotely locking a car, or to disruupt the 'comfort entry' proximity system. This causes victims to walk away leaving their vehicles unlocked unwittingly and they will swear blind they locked their car as they always do.
BMW's are the only premium cars being stolen without keys in any significant number. Thefts outnumber the next most stolen premium marque about 3:1 (audis - key burglaries largely). Obviously this is meaningless without relative 'population sizes'. Audis and Mercs seem immune to "high tech" keyless theft. There are handfuls of other "keyless" thefts across all marques but these generally shake down to being the victim being mistaken (or on occasion lying to cover up the fact they left their keys in the ignition and thus invalidating their insurance) or to cars being lifted for parking infractions and then the reports not being properly resolved. Some very old cars are obviously still hotwireable. It's safe to say that in my experience NO criminal gang routinely lifts these cars on recovery trucks. Sheds towed by tinkers for scrap - yes. BMW's lifted off the street onto recovery trucks? No.
Recovery rates are very low at under 20% for BMW's vs over 50% across the board for all makes/models. Believe it or not if you get your car stolen you have a good chance of getting it back if it's not a BMW.
The device mentioned earlier in this thread doesn't code the key to the car, it codes the car to the key - it adds the key to the CAS as an accepted key which then opens and starts the car as normal. You can code one key to multiple cars in this manner. The key is in effect "solid state" and can't be re-coded or given a new identity, and doesn't need to be.
It is almost exclusively M-sport trim vehicles being taken. Diesels are very commonly stolen, along with all points of the model ranges. Premium specs are seemingly targeted like 335i's, 335d's but again without knowing the relative sales numbers its hard to know what's significant. 120d's, 5 series of all engine variants are going just as regularly so it's by no means only big engined or the most powerful cars being sought by thieves (but nice trim and spec ones and left hand drives do certainly seem to be more nickable)
Vehicles 2006 to present are affected, so long as it's an 'electronic' key without a physical ignition barrel. 2006-2009 seem worst hit. Again one assumes becuase it's parts demand driving theft and there's less parts demand for brand new cars.
What we AREN'T seeing is M-cars being targeted. Very few M5/M6/M3's are going. One assumes that this is because there isn't parts demand for them abroad, where smaller engines and diesels are far more common. This is of course conjecture. Being petrol heads I guess we assume that if you could stroll off with any BMW you'd pick the most potent. These are organised gangs and they steal for profit, not joyriding or fun.
X5's and X6's are being stolen - they're more likely to be recovered and they appear to be staying in one piece and going for export to Africa, whereas the bulk of "saloon" cars nicked appear to be broken for panels and parts very quickly and so recovery chances are lower.
It is also a big problem in Germany and the rest of the continent, the UK is not alone.
There is no suggestion BMW dealers/garages are involved - they don't need to be. You don't need loads of spare keys because one can be used over and over again. Remember, they're driving these cars off to be broken, not re-selling them whole. Finding a BMW to steal appears as simple as trawling streets/ carparks with high density of BMW's i.e. affluent areas and taking your pick of one on the desired list. Why try harder? On occasion there's indication specific cars may have been targeted for some reason -perhaps they're on that weeks shopping list - but overwhelmingly they are being taken from streets, drives and open spaces rather than within garages/secure or hidden areas.
So, take it or leave it..... I've seen the data first hand, I've spoken directly to people who've had their cars stolen, I've spoken to people with a strategic nationwide overview of the problems from a number of angles. No one is in any doubt it's a big issue but with corporate reputations at stake no one should be surprised that companies aren't shouting failings from the rooftop. They need to solve the problem before it blows up and this becomes even more common knowledge - although I'd suggest the stable door is wide open and the horse fast disappearing over the horizon now.

Sorry, I nearly forgot the important bit, which is of course the Crime Prevention advice:
1) Park somewhere overlooked and garage the car if you can.
2) Disable the OBD port in some cunning way.
3) Use additional physical security such as a steering wheel lock.
4) Consider additional and aftermarket immobilisers/trackers. Something perhaps that cuts fuel and is independant of the keyed ignition. Sadly I think this kind of security may become an necessity from an insurance point of view as time wears on.
Interesting reading Ian. I'm guessing we don't know who the author is.

Quote:
What we AREN'T seeing is M-cars being targeted. Very few /M3's are going.]
You'd have to mad a bit mental to nick one at 18 MPG
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      06-08-2012, 03:34 AM   #241
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Interesting reading Ian. I'm guessing we don't know who the author is.
No knowledge of the author Del,but he's clearly well placed,possibly within the insurance industry at a guess.

There was another Guy who posted,possibly Bib,all of his posts seem to have disappeared,but he clearly knew his stuff with very regular updates on cars and the type, going awol.


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You'd have to mad a bit mental to nick one at 18 MPG
Apparently the M3 is not favoured,the lack of torque doesn't make for a quick getaway
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      06-08-2012, 03:36 AM   #242
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Yes - see the other thread - the dealer was so outraged they fitted the wrong tyres to my car to pi$$ me off!

No, dealer was ok with it, it was a non-issue. SA was aware of BMWs getting nicked.

This does involve cutting wires.
Cheers for the response,I'm looking at some cleverly positioned switches,is the CF 'fix' along similar lines?
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