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      04-23-2012, 06:01 AM   #155
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I see they do longer lengths. Maybe relocate it in the boot or something?
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      04-23-2012, 08:53 AM   #156
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Replacement OBD port ordered via BMW dealer, came to less than 6 posted (although that did include a discount for being a member on a similar uk BMW forum.
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      04-23-2012, 09:19 AM   #157
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Aside from my garage and gates (what more can I physically do besides mounting a motion tracking gatling gun?!), I have just hidden away the OBD port and installed a steering wheel lock as a visual deterrent. Relocating the OBD port was a bit of a pain and if the theives were to try and find it, they'd have as many cuts as I do and a decent amount of risk of being caught. I'm not going to say what I've done as the scum are probably looking at these posts and laughing but I know where it is and if I need to scan my car and take an hour searching for the port then so be it. Shes my car and you're not having it!
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      04-23-2012, 09:22 AM   #158
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I think JamJay you have it spot on I will be relocating the port and that OBD2 cable will do the job fine. Hiding it anywhere in the car so you know and thats it is the key, plus a lock for visual help
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      04-23-2012, 09:45 AM   #159
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By relocating it I mean that it isn't accessible from anywhere and you'd pretty much have to reroute the lot back through to be able to get to it. I doubt very much whether a theif has the time or balls to spend hours in the dark looking for a port with no clue where it may be. The benfit of this is that we're all doing this separately, no port will be located in the same place. For those of you planning on using an extension cable and locating the port to another accessible area, please make sure that the actual port that is hardwired to the car is routed far enough away so that a theif looking for it cannot pop off your extension cable and just connect to the original port.

As you say Magic, as long as you know where it is, is all that matters. Scanning your car is now a pain in the rse and refitting the port right before a dealer visit is a job but it's that Vs stolen car. On the plus side this is 100% reversible, no modification required.

I'd fit a dummy port down there but TBH I'd rather save the 6 and have a pint.

F@ck you theives!
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      04-23-2012, 09:51 AM   #160
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Well pointed out guys. Will be rerouting mine with the extension cable to a secret location in the car. The join will be hidden as far back as I can and looking at ways to secure the joint. Heat wrap or something.

The extension will be at an accessible point somewhere in the car to allow dealer access, but it will be far enough away to mean a potential theif would have to spend and hour looking for it lol.
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      04-23-2012, 09:54 AM   #161
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I think there are some good suggestions here.

It would be interesting to see how BMW reacts should we all put something in writing to them. Surely they can't ignore it forever?

More importantly, if I was looking to steal specific high end cars, my first port of call would be specific forums for said cars. As far as I know, this forum requires no registration to 'browse'.
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      04-23-2012, 12:16 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste133 View Post

More importantly, if I was looking to steal specific high end cars, my first port of call would be specific forums for said cars. As far as I know, this forum requires no registration to 'browse'.
Maybe if I were a complete amateur but they're not the ones with the expensive equiptment, I doubt professionals will be very interested in these forums, lets face it, what are the chances of reading this forum & then trying to steal the car of someone that's posted on here?
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      04-23-2012, 01:12 PM   #163
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I wouldnt be so simple about it. google my friend look at Big Moto post hits google many times. I've stumbled on many posts on here via google when searching simple terms. End of the day they do research and most people hit google. Not case one of ours but best not to give them help. Same reason its good practice to blur out yoru number plate in pics to avoid number plate cloning
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      04-23-2012, 03:14 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simonsingh View Post
These little devices are able to work out which wire is which (as the OBD pin config changes from year to year/model to model), and then work according. Any swapping of the wires is just a waste of time.
CANBus relies on EITHER of the 2 communication wires, knocking one of them out will also do nothing for security.
The CANBus system is also very sensitive to any wire changes or breaks. Once the wire is broken and soldered, you're going to have endless problems as the solder itself changes the resistance of the part of the wire.
Anything do to with switches, or soldering CANBus wires is going to be bad news.
These hooky programming boxes do not / cannot figure out pinouts, maybe a CAN line reversal but that would be it, even so I doubt even that. There's no need as OBD pinouts are fixed!

1. OBDII pinout is strictly fixed has been since day 1, CAN is on pins 14&6 and that's it - that's the whole point - its a global standard access port for all cars!! What use would it be it if BMW changed the pinout?. There are allocated spare pins that manufacturers can uses as they wish but they are not the CAN / power etc and the four other protocols, which are fixed for all. Any 'spare' pins they do choose to use must not interfere with any other pins or any other diagnostic equipment.

2. CAN needs both high and low wires, it's a balanced pair network usng differential signalling between the wires so it has to have both wires intact at all times (and the polarity is critical too). It will not work on one wire where 2 are specified - other wise they would only provide one wire!

3. CAN is very robust (it's meant to be), as long as extensions are done in twisted pair wire (0.35 to 0.5sqmm ideal), keeping both H & L the same length, you can run up to 40 meters and still maintain full data speed. Neat in-line soldering is fine, or small diameter through crimps, taped up after finishing.

You only have to look at the JB4 connection to the ECU, using non-twisted wires and simple in-line connections, there is no problem to the CAN bus with this.

OBDII pinout (fixed since 2004) Five comms protocols are allowed for, but CAN is always on 14&6.

PIN USE IN NUMBERED ORDER

1 - Discretionary

2 - SAE-J1850 PWM and SAE 1850 VPW positive bus line

3 - Discretionary

4 - Chassis ground (battery negative)

5 - Signal ground (max 1.5 Amp)

6 - ISO-15765-4 CAN (high line) and SAE J2284

7 - K-line of ISO-9141-2 and ISO-14230-4 (data line)

8 - Discretionary

9 - Discretionary

10 - SAE-J1850 (PWM) (negative bus line) (not SAE 1850VPW)

11 – Discretionary

12 - Discretionary

13 - Discretionary

14 - ISO-15765-4 CAN (low line) and SAE J2284)

15 - L-line of ISO-9141-2 and ISO-14230-4

16 - Positive voltage (battery positive, max 4 amps)
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Last edited by doughboy; 04-24-2012 at 03:41 AM.
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      04-24-2012, 02:56 AM   #165
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I forgot to look, but if someone can have a look at which pins are fitted in the OBDII socket, we can tie down the exact BMW comms configuration according to the OBD specs.
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      04-24-2012, 04:53 AM   #166
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Key Programming Procedure

Hi all,

I've done some digging on foreign YouTube and I believe this is how they are probably doing it. It doesn't explain entry to the car but look how simple this is...



A few pushes of a button & goodbye BMW!
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      04-24-2012, 07:01 AM   #167
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Eastern european accent, Bulgerian he claims!
Did you read some of the moronic questions and answers below.
It makes me fuckin sick that some scum-bag can post this up on Youtube offering a way to steal our cars despite what he may say his actual intentions are.

Last edited by Cyprio; 04-24-2012 at 10:11 AM.
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      04-24-2012, 07:10 AM   #168
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Comment by lokitswrx wants one of these disguised as a mobile phone and this edilock guy says he makes these too! FFS, this is ridiculous, you'd have no way of catching a thief as he'd just say he only had his mobile on him. Perhaps anyone who's been in contact with Thatcham or BMW UK can share this video link in their correspondence with them?

How sick does it make you thinking that every poster on there, except those slagging off edilock, is a potential thief?

Sh1t like this will always be around, there will always be someone trying to crack the system but it is BMW's responsibility to make sure that third party tools like this cannot be used. That may well be at the detriment of flash tuning but I know which I'd prefer, you can't flash a car that is no longer there.

Last edited by Cozy; 04-24-2012 at 07:18 AM.
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      04-24-2012, 07:24 AM   #169
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I've seen that video before. There are plenty more out there.

There's a rather long list of things listed on their website including a UK address here in London:
edilock-bg.com/en/bmw.htm (copy and paste - I didn't want to associate their webpage to this forum).

Working in IT Forensics, it still amazes me at how quickly people crack/reverse engineer technology.

Last edited by Ste133; 04-24-2012 at 07:25 AM. Reason: spelling
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      04-24-2012, 07:53 AM   #170
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I spoke to Thatcham & subsequently emailed them a link to this thread, but sadly I didn't even get an acknowledgement, which pretty much sums up the attitude of the powers that be!!!
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      04-24-2012, 12:14 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
These hooky programming boxes do not / cannot figure out pinouts, maybe a CAN line reversal but that would be it, even so I doubt even that. There's no need as OBD pinouts are fixed

...

16 - Positive voltage (battery positive, max 4 amps)[/i][/b]
I stand corrected, they are indeed on 6/14!

At work (BMW Indy Specialist), I'm the poor sod that has to work through all this CANBus sh!t, (started from no knowledge to now hooking into the CANBus systems for aftermarket features using the specified HEX codes blah blah blah...) with the help of BMW & AutoLogic.

We've been advised not to apply any solder etc as it will cause problems with resistances, as we've had a car in recently (front end damage) that had this exact problem, and it was down to a lump of solder messing up the balance between the two lines.

We've had numerous cars that have either had a problem on the high or the low line (due to a break or water ingress), and the CAN lines still had comms between the relevant modules.
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      04-24-2012, 02:05 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simonsingh View Post
I stand corrected, they are indeed on 6/14!

At work (BMW Indy Specialist), I'm the poor sod that has to work through all this CANBus sh!t, (started from no knowledge to now hooking into the CANBus systems for aftermarket features using the specified HEX codes blah blah blah...) with the help of BMW & AutoLogic.

We've been advised not to apply any solder etc as it will cause problems with resistances, as we've had a car in recently (front end damage) that had this exact problem, and it was down to a lump of solder messing up the balance between the two lines.

We've had numerous cars that have either had a problem on the high or the low line (due to a break or water ingress), and the CAN lines still had comms between the relevant modules.
No problems with using an extension cable?
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      04-24-2012, 02:21 PM   #173
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Quote:
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No problems with using an extension cable?
They work perfectly fine, even the cheap ones from China haven't done me any wrong (yet)!
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      04-24-2012, 03:22 PM   #174
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Quote:
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They work perfectly fine, even the cheap ones from China haven't done me any wrong (yet)!
Thank you.

Just got to decide now where I'm going to run it.
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      04-24-2012, 03:28 PM   #175
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Cable ordered and a plug blank to act as a cover. Now just to hide it
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      04-24-2012, 04:24 PM   #176
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Extension cable it is then! You guys have come up with some excellent ideas, well done.
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